7-B Brackets Round 22

[Rocker1189]

It does not really matter anyway is intagibility duration gets longer in game the further the person is after he activates it, it does not have a set duration(like 2 seconds) or anything.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

It does not really matter anyway is intagibility duration gets longer in game the further the person is after he activates it, it does not have a set duration(like 2 seconds) or anything.

Use the maximum duration shown and that's it. Regardless Gintoki has plenty openings to attack. I also still see no evidence of Maokai spamming it in character.

If you really think it can be used for longer, I say again, give me a scan from the lore and I'll accept that. Otherwise we assume it has a duration like it does in game. You wouldn't see me arguing Shovel Knight can become intangible permanently because the amulet he uses having a duration is "gameplay balancing". Stuff has limits even in fiction.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dargoo And Mao is shown to have a range of several kilometers with his magic

Reaper CAN go intangible indefinitely though...

In Lol, cooldowns, mana costs, and range limits are all gameplay mechanics. Unless of course you want to argue that Aurelion Sol has a range of a few meters despite being canonically galaxy sized.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dargoo In LoL cooldowns, mana costs, and range limits are all directly contradicted by the lore. Theyre all game mechanics. All of the characters are nerfed heavily for gameplay balancing purposes.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

@Dargoo In Lol, cooldowns, mana costs, and range limits are all gameplay mechanics. Unless of course you want to argue that Aurelion Sol has a range of a few meters despite being canonically galaxy sized.

That's because the gameplay activity contradicts the lore there.

I have seen nothing in the lore presented thus far assuming Maokai can become intangible indefinitely. We should only use what we see, otherwise you're using a pretty blatant No Limits Fallacy.

Honestly the jump in logic from a mobility skill that makes him temporarily intangible to being untouchable indefinitely is massive.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Ooooooooooooooooooh thats what you meant

 

[Rocker1189]

A few seconds of intagibility is enough anyway, he can dodge sword strikes with it easily enough so it is not like the altana sword would def land and make him lose his regen he can also still create his wooden constructs and Gintama has no answer to being spammed with sentient explosive saplings as an attack.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

From what I'm aware of the intangibility is part of a mobility skill, not something he can rapidly use in close range combat. Even then gintama is more than intelligent enough to notice the openings and take them.

Gintama can just avoid the explosives and head straight to Maokai. Also again with "spamming", I'd like to see when Maokai spams that attack.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

lol i misunderstood you, yeah no he cant go intangible indefinitely i thought you meant he can only use his intangibility over the short range shown in-game. Yes, he has only shown to be able to use his intangibility for a few seconds at a time, though this is more than enough to be able to use it effectively against Gintoki as ther eis nothing Gintoki can hit in his intangible state that would negate Mao's regen.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Oh no, I'm talking about the duration, not the range.

Gintoki would notice the openings, honestly.

Also I'd imagine his stands could harm Maokai while intangible, although I don't know enough about Gintoki to make that call.

 

[Rocker1189]

From what I'm aware of the intangibility is part of a mobility skill, not something he can rapidly use in close range combat. Even then gintama is more than intelligent enough to notice the openings and take them.
Gintama can just avoid the explosives and head straight to Maokai. Also again with "spamming", I'd like to see when Maokai spams that attack.

Literally in the game peole rapidly use the intangibility in close range combat, I dont see your point here. What openings the intagibility eitehr means he can attack Gin with impunity or he can be hit why still fighting.

He spams the attack in game and how can Gin just avoid explosive and run at Maokai? I dont know how can actually be a point, should I just say "well maokai can just avoid Gin's attacks and run at him?" I dont think it means anything.

He turns into magic how can Gintoki hit that.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dargoo Worse comes to worse Mao just whips up an instant whirlwind to encompass the battlefield to keep Gintoki off balance while he gets picked off by Saplings

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Following.

Also, can Mao harm Gintoki while intangible?

 

[Rocker1189]

Yes as said before his saplings are sentient and attack on their own and he can atatck while intangible too.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes, his intangibility can be used as an attack that roots the opponent and then instantly turns Mao back into his physical form in order for a follow up attack

 

[Litentric_Teon]

How does him attacking while Intangible work?

And how strong as the saplings?

 

[Rocker1189]

He just rushes him as a ball of magic and binds him in place.

The saplings are made by him and so are on the same level of AP.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Oh, so he attacks with magic, gotcha.

Like, they're made of his roots or something?

 

[Rocker1189]

They are made from his seeds I believe.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

His seeds? Are other players able to deal with them more easily than Mao himself? I guess I'm more so trying to figure out their durability.

 

[Rocker1189]

Nah you are actually unable to attack them in game and they get more powerful if used in bushes.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Oh, do they just stay permanently and can't die? Why can't they be attacked?

Also, do you guys have a scan of him attacking while intangible? I'd greatly appreciate the visualization.

 

[Rocker1189]

And he can plant them beforehand for ambush attacks.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Litentric i actually posted a scan of him using his intangibility to attack above

https://youtu.be/G4TQEpXNUMU?t=76

 

[Rocker1189]

Oh, do they just stay permanently and can't die? Why can't they be attacked?
Also, do you guys have a scan of him attacking while intangible? I'd greatly appreciate the visualization.

The game just does not allow them to be attacked I assume you can probably attack them but using anything in contact would cause them to simply blow up in your face.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Okay. So they can be attacked. But game mechanics doesn't allow the to be attacked. That's interesting.

@Weekly

Thank you, but I actually looked at that one already. I wasn't sure if he just delved into the ground or went intangible, but he didn't attack until he came back up. As when he reappeared, the dudes in red took no damage until he swung his fist. Is it later on in the video that he attacks while intangible with something other than the Saprolings? Which are really his summons and aren't him.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Liten Yes that is his intangibility. I know its hard to see in that video but basically his intangibility itself does damage when he attacks the opponent and then he instantly turns physical again in order to deal a follow up physical attack.

Twisted Advance: Maokai dashes to the target enemy, becoming intangible for the duration, dealing magic damage on arrival and briefly rooting them.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

@Weekly

Ah, alright, thank you.

I guess I'm leaning towards Mao atm. Very slightly. But I'm going to wait for Velox's opinion before casting a vote.

Also, which one is more skilled?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Literally in the game peole rapidly use the intangibility in close range combat, I dont see your point here. What openings the intagibility eitehr means he can attack Gin with impunity or he can be hit why still fighting.

Players of the game =/= Maokai's character.

As I've said nothing has been shown implying it's somthing he constantly uses. I'd like confirmation of how he fights in the lore before we make assumptions based on how players use him in the game.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Nah you are actually unable to attack them in game and they get more powerful if used in bushes.

I'm 90% sure that's game mechanics. Of course they can be harmed; just because they don't have hitboxes in-game doesn't suddently make them indestructible.

 

[Rocker1189]

That was literally the point I made above.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

@Weekly
Also, which one is more skilled?

Gintoki by a long shot looking at the both of them.

 

[Rocker1189]

I dont see how Gintoki is more skilled especially considering they both fight massively differently.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Maokai has several thousand years of combat experience and most of that time was spent fighting hordes of monsters on a daily basis

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

That was literally the point I made above.

Skills having limitations is something that's perfectly reasonable, especially when we don't see the skill in the lore.

His smaller summons being untouchable isn't something that's grounded in the lore from what I'm aware of, and again, objects not having hitboxes in the game doesn't make them untouchable.

 

[Rocker1189]

Yes, I know which is why I literally said: " I assume you can probably attack them but using anything in contact would cause them to simply blow up in your face."

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Maokai has several thousand years of combat experience and most of that time was spent fighting hordes of monsters on a daily basis

Gintoki's feats of being able to replicate and adapt to combat tecniques in battle feels more potent to me. Experience =/= Skill. Also, Gintoki has fought warriors of comparable skill a large number of times; fighting hordes of monsters isn't comprable to fighting other skilled fighters.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Gintoki is more experienced. He fought and won against the most skilled swordsmen, gunmen and criminals of the entire universe at this point.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

assume you can probably attack them but using anything in contact would cause them to simply blow up in your face.

I don't know why being attacked would detonate them, and even then Gintoki can just use his ranged abilities to detonate them from a safe distance at that rate.

 

[Rocker1189]

The monsters he fights are also skilled in combat some of them are like Hecarim, skilled warriors who became more powerful becaue they are now monstrous spirits.