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7-A Brackets Round 24

Dargoo Faust said:
Should I change it to day to make this less complicated?
Cobra - 4 (Dragon, Cal, Jack, Schnee)

Berserker - 2 (Iapitus, Fate)
Click to expand...
Nah, SBA dictates its night. It also may be a stomp without it
 
>it's a stomp at night

>it's a stomp at day

Confused
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
No, its probably a stomp if there isn't presence concealment to him just AoE blasting them to death at a distance
Click to expand...
It's not to death, the AP difference isn't enough to oneshot. The poison takes a few seconds to activate and there are still 200 hundred of them, he's not going to engulf them all, just a good number.

And it definitely is a stomp with Presence Concealment.

As such, they cannot be perceived by those without supernatural senses and become difficult for those with such senses to detect until Berserker makes a move to attack.

There would literally be 200 demons surrounding Cobra attacking him without him being able to react becase he's going to be getting hit from the front, back, and sides at all times.
 
Considering the presence concealment at night also messes with telepathy I'll set it at day for now.
 
About Magic Resistance Negation, wouldn't it be a bit of a NLF to assume it'll work on everyone who has Magic Resistance? If anything it should come down to who's Magic Resistance is better, the Magic Resistance Dragon's have in FT or the Magic Resistance found in Fate.
 
It's not really NLF, I didn't say it would Nullify every resistance to magic ever, I said it would nullify Berserker's.
 
I feel like the basic magic resistance servants have isn't crazy good assuming magic can still harm/effect servants in many other cases (See: every caster servant), it just helps them survive some magic-based stuff that could kill regular people.

So stronger magic, especially at the level of a servant considering how powerful Cobra is, should effect them regardless.
 
Literally all Servants in Fate are getting magic resistance for being able to resist poisons even when most of those servants don't even have good enough magic resistance for it to be a skill.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
It's not to death, the AP difference isn't enough to oneshot. The poison takes a few seconds to activate and there are still 200 hundred of them, he's not going to engulf them all, just a good number.

And it definitely is a stomp with Presence Concealment.

As such, they cannot be perceived by those without supernatural senses and become difficult for those with such senses to detect until Berserker makes a move to attack.

There would literally be 200 demons surrounding Cobra attacking him without him being able to react becase he's going to be getting hit from the front, back, and sides at all times.
Click to expand...
Then why did you say that the poison resist wouldnt help if they get killed by the AP difference anyway? 200 at the distance they are at and the range they have is gonna be enough to kill with the rotation of your body

Not really. If he fires at random he can get a good few, and he has time to react as soon as they start their attack. The only way they would get him is without his capacity of hearing their thoughts

Yeah, but he dodges every single one of their attacks if they don't have it. Thus is would be a stomp without it

The presence concealment only matters on the first attack, and after that it goes right back to as if they were fighting in the day. If it is a stomp at night then it is a stomp in the day
 
Magic resist in the nasuverse is based on complexity, not power. A spell with more verses will make it more able to bypass the resistances
 
I just said that the AP difference isn't enough to oneshot, it's less than 2X.

Yeah, a few when there are 200 of them

" Yeah, but he dodges every single one of their attacks if they don't have it."

" The presence concealment only matters on the first attack, "

The first attack of 200 demons. I even said he wouldn't be able to dodge everything, he can only mind read a few at a time, the sound wall is to deflect large amounts of them away from him and the palm is to get distance. He's not getting away unharmed.
 
In fairness, Cobra has no feats of simultaneously fighting a ton of enemies with his thought reading stuff. Assuming he can predict AND react to 200 people of equal speed would be a great overestimation of his ability.
 
FateAlbane said:
In fairness, Cobra has no feats of simultaneously fighting a ton of enemies with his thought reading stuff.
Assuming he can predict AND react to 200 people of equal speed would be a great overestimation of his ability.
Click to expand...
^ This is what I'm saying. He's not going to be able to mind read every single demon. He's going to be able to Palm away some and Sound Wall away others, but he's definitely going to be taking damage. My argument is simply that the demons succumb to the poison before Erik gets hit too many times.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Magic resist in the nasuverse is based on complexity, not power. A spell with more verses will make it more able to bypass the resistances
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure this would fall under similarities to Dragon Ball's AP > hax thing, in that most series don't treat magic resist like that so it's going to be Nasu specific.
 
"But that officer wasn't one of his comrades. He was appearing around the bowman, being
struck down, disappearing, and then appearing again unscathed and unnoticed. No matter how many times his body was twisted apart or pierced with arrows, the same officer continued to challenge the Heroic Spirit."

So even if his dublicates died, they would always appear again.
 
I'm not arguing that Cobra kills them all, I'm arguing that his poison paralyzes them and he wins via incapitation.


Also, does that mean Berserker can't die permanently?
 
The real cal howard said:
I'm pretty sure this would fall under similarities to Dragon Ball's AP > hax thing, in that most series don't treat magic resist like that so it's going to be Nasu specific.
Click to expand...
I would say it is almost the exact opposite. Whether the spell came from a mountain level caster servant or a large building level mage, it's how complicated the spell is that dictates if it is going to get nullified. Since magic resist often isnt spells just doing less, its whether or not they disappear into a puff of smoke upon touching your skin, it would make sense that something more complicated would be harder to negate
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
Also, does that mean Berserker can't die permanently?
Click to expand...
No idea about this part, because Alcides stole his NP when he was about to be killed.
 
I get what you're saying, but what does that have to do with the fact that in most series, magic resist is more power based?
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
I just said that the AP difference isn't enough to oneshot, it's less than 2X.
Yeah, a few when there are 200 of them

" Yeah, but he dodges every single one of their attacks if they don't have it."

" The presence concealment only matters on the first attack, "

The first attack of 200 demons. I even said he wouldn't be able to dodge everything, he can only mind read a few at a time, the sound wall is to deflect large amounts of them away from him and the palm is to get distance. He's not getting away unharmed.
Click to expand...
In that case, they definitely should be able to kill him before the poison sets in.

If he cannot dodge all their attacks like I assumed, then they do probably swarm him mind reading be damned. Sound wall will only help somewhat when he can control their placement via controlling their manifestation locations.

For these reasons and the ones I said above, I vote for Berserker Jack
 
They're not going to kill him in seconds, when he has Sound Wall+ Sound Palm and the mind reading. Manifesting locations? So they can teleport?
 
The real cal howard said:
I get what you're saying, but what does that have to do with the fact that in most series, magic resist is more power based?
Click to expand...
Because Nasuverse magic resist can usually be better thought of as negation or defensive hax over conventional resistence. One a magic becomes powerful enough that it can be thought of more as a noble Phantasm than a spell, then it doesnt play on a field they resist
 
Just a thought

Poison is not related to AP. How hard Cobra can shoot a poison blast at you or hit you with poisoned-wreathed hands is irrelevant to how powerful that poison is.

And as said on the CRT, Servants can resist magic poisons and acids like Jack's Mist and Serenity's poison.

So what's Cobra's poison got going for it that makes it strong enough to paralyse?
 
Serenity's poison and Jack's mist totally effect servants without the magic resistance skill.
 
Cobra's poison typically doesn't kill the victim easily, it does it over time and can effect the nervous system and has some corrosive properties. That said how does the Poison that Servants usually resist compare?
 
Because Nasuverse magic resist can usually be better thought of as negation or defensive hax over conventional resistence. One a magic becomes powerful enough that it can be thought of more as a noble Phantasm than a spell, then it doesnt play on a field they resist

Sounds like if we made the exception for Nasu, we'd have to make the exception for DB, because I fail to see how that's different from the DB instance.
 
I'm also not sure why this is an issue when Cobra can outright ignore magical resistances.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Just a thought

Poison is not related to AP. How hard Cobra can shoot a poison blast at you or hit you with poisoned-wreathed hands is irrelevant to how powerful that poison is.

And as said on the CRT, Servants can resist magic poisons and acids like Jack's Mist and Serenity's poison.

So what's Cobra's poison got going for it that makes it strong enough to paralyse?
Click to expand...
Yes, they resisted magic poison because that poison was magic. Cobra's Poison negates resistance to magic. And me mentioning the AP difference was for when the demons land hits on Cobra.
 
The real cal howard said:
Sounds like if we made the exception for Nasu, we'd have to make the exception for DB, because I fail to see how that's different from the DB instance.
Click to expand...
Let me rephrase. We may call it resistence, but what Nasu calls resistence isnt what we call resistence. Think of it more as passive magical negation. They also resist magic like we think of it, but when we talk about the magic resist skill, think of it as negation or nullification
 
Seemingly only against dragons

" No, the durability negation is what is unique to dragons. They've bypassed a robot's magic resistance with it before."

Honestly, I don't even know where this misconception is coming from. It's literally on the page where it says "Limited Durability Negation against Dragons" and then right next to it is Resistance negation without a Limited or an against Dragons. I guess it's because they're close to each other?
 
As for the dragon Ball comparison thing, that's not entirely consistent within itself. Kep typed a rather long list of the instances of hax abilities actually negating durability somewhere that I may be able to pull up tomorrow.

I've seen the complexity thing before myself, though. Certain counterspells in MtG and certain psyker quotes indicate that complexity of the opposing spell also matters since the simpler ones are easier to dispel.

I don't really care though. Don't see anything wrong with it myself but I'm not gonna crusade for it.
 
The whole resistances negating magic is only associated with the actual Magic Resistance skill, not the general resistances Servants have.

For an example, as Monarch stated in the CRT, Hassan Serenity's NP is less effective against servants, but it isn't outright negated. A servant with high magical resistances like Sabers/Lancers/Archers might outright prevent her ability from activating.

So Magic Resistance (Skill) acts more like negation, whereas the general resistances associated with magi, servants, beasts, etc function more along the lines of what VSBW would call a 'Resistance'.
 
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