7-A Brackets Round 11

[Dargoo_Faust]

Jiraiya - 2 (Rocker, Iapitus)

Cobra (Erik) - 3 (Rin, Cal, Dragon)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You're right. Still, Cobra's poison is corrosive, which should have similar effects, and the toad was fire resistant, which speaks more for Amaterasu but less for the toad's durability.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

What did that change about what I said? When he used a fireball to distract the absorption path, he just used another fireball on the others instead of shadow clones.

 

[Rocker1189]

You're right. Still, Cobra's poison is corrosive, which should have similar effects, and the toad was fire resistant, which speaks more for Amaterasu but less for the toad's durability.

And the toad literally has gastric acid in its stomach. And again Amaterasu is beyond 7-A+ honestly isf the frog stomach withstood it that would be ridiculous.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Jiraiya didn't use the toad on the Pains either, despite it being a summon and not an jutsu that could be absorbed.

 

[Rocker1189]

What did that change about what I said? When he used a fireball to distract the absorption path, he just used another fireball on the others instead of shadow clones.

Yes because it was part of his plan for them to dodge it and get stuck in his mud creation thing. Before he used the frog genjutsu which you said was slow but was deliberately done slowly to make the Pains come to him.

which brings me to another point Jiraiya is extremly tactical with the help of his frog summons he could easily lead cobra into a situation that is beneficial to himself for a final combo attack.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Tactical prowess might actually be a detriment for Jiraiya given mind reading.

 

[Rocker1189]

Jiraiya didn't use the toad on the Pains either, despite it being a summon and not an jutsu that could be absorbed.

Because again he had a plan that worked out perfectly, there is no point in using other things if you have a plan.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yeah, Jiraiya's very intelligent and comes up with plans fairly quickly. That makes him a bad matchup against Erik since he'll know exactly what the plan is and he's going to mess it up.

 

[Rocker1189]

Yeah, Jiraiya's very intelligent and comes up with plans fairly quickly. That makes him a bad matchup against Erik since he'll know exactly what the plan is and he's going to mess it up.

Erik does not have any proper ways to mess him up. Erik is slower than Jiraiya. He cant get pass his senses and his hair manipulation for defense. He would be fighting at least 2 on 1 if not more when against toads and would have to read their minds too.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Jiraiya didn't use any toads besides Ma and Pa during the fight in combat either.

 

[Rocker1189]

Annd his mind reading is super hard countered by the frog song. I dont think he would bet Jiraiya before the frog song takes him.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The reason I really go with Erik here (with max difficulty and he's probably gonna lose an arm or something) is because due to that mind reading, he's guaranteed to get at least one really good hit in, and due to that poison and all of its side effects, it's really gonna screw the pervy sage over. Jiraiya is faster, more experienced, , and more versatile, yes, but he has to fight with a severe handicap due to poison, essentially fighting on a time limit (on top of the time limit for Sage Mode) and there's still that mind reading he has to get around in time.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Jiraiya doesn't start off with the frog song. He even says that Ninjutsu and taijutsu is his strong suit with genjutsu being a dud. He only resorted to the frog song after he realized that the Preta Path could absorb ninjutsu .

 

[Rocker1189]

The reason I really go with Erik here is because due to that mind reading, he's guaranteed to get at least one really good hit in, and due to that poison and all of its side effects, it's really gonna screw the pervy sage over. Jiraiya is faster, more experienced, , and more versatile, yes, but he has to fight with a severe handicap due to poison, essentially fighting on a time limit (on top of the time limit for Sage Mode) and there's still that mind reading he has to get around in time.

I dont know why you keep saying he would be poisoned. All the things you mentioned:

Jiraiya is faster, more experienced, , and more versatile,

go against that and Jiraiya on top of this has team help with toads, mind manipulation which can be dont while he does other stuff to distract his opponent and ways to block any attacks by his opponent, his hair.

 

[ZellTemplar55]

Cobra FRA with very high difficulty

 

[Rocker1189]

Jiraiya doesn't start off with the frog song. He even says that Ninjutsu and taijutsu is his strong suit with genjutsu being a dud. He only resorted to the frog song after he realized that the Preta Path could absorb ninjutsu .

Yeah ninjutsu and taijutsu are his stronge suit, not the toads who do genjutsu for him. Yeah, and he would do it when he realizes his other attacks are not landing if they dont land, Jiraiya still has the speed, experience and versatility advantage as well as the ability to summon giant toads for ranged and melee support with their own jutsu on top of the the ability to hide in a toad of his own for a sneak attack.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Anyway, Cobra with Mindreading, AoE sound attacks (may be anime only, I don't remember) and poison that pretty much needs to only hit once to win.

 

[Rocker1189]

I feel people are overestimating his mind reading a lot. He is up against an opponent with every advantage against him. Includig numbers, that is a lot of minds he has to read.

 

[TriforcePower1]

He doesn't have to "read". He can literally hear thoughts as if the person is speaking. It's pretty much passive.

 

[Rocker1189]

He doesn't have to "read". He can literally hear thoughts as if the person is speaking. It's pretty much passive.

That is not my point, my point if he can just here them like that it is like trying to fight multiple people while they are constantly talking, you myight be able to here them but it does not mean you can really understand them/

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Also

@Dargoo This is X792 Cobra

He is comparable to Laxus who is comparable to Erza who is faster than X791 Erza who is faster than X784 Erza who is faster than Natsu who made the Mach 1381 feat. So the speed difference is negligible.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yeah, there's literally eight years of scaling between Natsu's speed feat and current Cobra.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Cobra FRA

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Jiraiya - 2 (Rocker, Iapitus)

Cobra (Erik) - 6 (Rin, Cal, Dragon, Nicco, Triforce, Zell)

 

[Rocker1189]

No one has still explained how Cobra actually fights multiple opponents on top of getting past Jiraiya's senses and hair barriers....

 

[Jackythejack]

I guess I'll end this? I ain't too invested.

Cobra FRA

 

[Rocker1189]

I get that he can see what Jiraiya is going to do, but I done see how he can actually counter any of it. Especially Jiraiya's defenses. Considering Jiraya has an answer to everything of Cobra's

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Grace begins.

Jiraiya - 2 (Rocker, Iapitus)

Cobra (Erik) - 7 (Rin, Cal, Dragon, Nicco, Triforce, Zell, Jacky)

I'll refrain from posting a new match right away as it seems debate isn't over yet.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

I kinda agree with Cal here. Cobra's poison is a bit unconventional, and, iirc, it doesn't really even look like poison aside from the color I suppose. Jiraiya can win handily if he just played keep away, but why would he do that? In character, he does indeed for for CQC fairly readily, and since Cobra can read minds, Jiraiya being affected by the poison seems like an inevitability. It's not just that his attacks won't be landing. But that some of Cobra's will, which is all that's required. Not to mention that Cobra should also be able to read the minds of the toads as well.

Now because of Jiraiya's versatility and tactical nature, the battle would be incredibly difficult for Cobra. But since Cobra can read minds, and is very likely to infect him, Jiraiya wouldn't be able to maintain Sage Mode long enough to actually defeat Cobra due to said poison.

 

[Rocker1189]

Again Cobra's poison can not actually reach Jiraiya because of Jiraiya's hair that can act as a barrier as well as attack to keep people away. And no Jiraiaya does not go CQC normally where are peopl basing this from?

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Note, Cobra doesn't actually have to counter Jiraiya once he's poisoned. Just kinda stall until the poison does its work. His mind reading means avoiding Jiraiya's tactics should be easy.

Frog song is his best chance. And using it would probably net him a win. But he wouldn't know to use it. He'd have to just randomly pull it as an attack and land it directly among the dozens of techniques he has.

I actually said Jiraiya would go for CQC eventually. Not right off the bat. And Cobra can read where the hair will go. Not to mention that if Jiraiya blocks Cobra's attack once, then he's poisoned. Jiraiya doesn't always block with his hair. Iirc, he doesn't even normally do that. And Cobra can read that regardless.

 

[Rocker1189]

Jiraiya vs Orochimaru, first move swap jutsu.

Jiraiaya vs Konan, first move flame jutsu.

Jiraya versus Pain, long ranged hair attack first move.

Then versus pain as a sage, flame oil/air/fire combo as his first move, all long ranged and jutsus. He just gets forced into melees because opponents know hiw ninjutsu is dangerous.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Cobra's poison is pretty potent too. It didn't take long for Natsu and Happy to be unable to move their bodies and Cobra was surprised they hadn't already died yet.

 

[Rocker1189]

Note, Cobra doesn't actually have to counter Jiraiya once he's poisoned. Just kinda stall until the poison does its work. His mind reading means avoiding Jiraiya's tactics should be easy.
Frog song is his best chance. And using it would probably net him a win. But he wouldn't know to use it. He'd have to just randomly pull it as an attack and land it directly among the dozens of techniques he has.

I actually said Jiraiya would go for CQC eventually. Not right off the bat. And Cobra can read where the hair will go. Not to mention that if Jiraiya blocks Cobra's attack once, then he's poisoned. Jiraiya doesn't always block with his hair. Iirc, he doesn't even normally do that. And Cobra can read that regardless.

Actually he does block with his hair especially for first time attacks and especially for ranged attacks. And the moment he does and realizes the corrossiveness of said attacks he would know to avoid them. He can read the hair yes, but he can not do anything to stop it. The moment no normal attacks work the frog jutsu would be busted out.

You still have no counter for his other giant frog summons. And I have proven that Jiraya always starts with ranged attacks.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The problem is either when either Jiraiya starts making strategies or when Cobra gets up close (which will happen as I highly doubt Jiraiya will play keep-away that much). Either Cobra surprised Jiraiya and gets a hit in foiling the strategy or he gstsup close, Jiraiya thinks "dodge left", Cobra reads it, and lands a blow. And from there, it's Cobra's victory due to lolpoioson. Mind you, they're 20 meters apart.

Alternaticely, the hair could be corroded (I'd pay money to see Jiraiya freak out over being made bald ovo). Or worse. Hair isn't immune to toxins after all.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

"Starts."

Please reread what I said. I said that Jiraiya fairly readily opts for CQC. Not that he starts with it. He'll be especially inclined when he sees Cobra dodging all of his attacks since he can read his mind.

The giant frogs are larger targets for his poison. Plus, Cobra can fly out of range. And he can hear their minds as well, so dodging is still as option.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Imma change my vote to Cobra FRA

 

[Rocker1189]

The problem is either when either Jiraiya starts making strategies or when Cobra gets up close (which will happen as I highly doubt Jiraiya will play keep-away that much). Either Cobra surprised Jiraiya and gets a hit in foiling the strategy or he gstsup close, Jiraiya thinks "dodge left", Cobra reads it, and lands a blow. And from there, it's Cobra's victory due to lolpoioson. Mind you, they're 20 meters apart.
Alternaticely, the hair could be corroded (I'd pay money to see Jiraiya freak out over being made bald ovo). Or worse. Hair isn't immune to toxins after all.

He does not need to again Cobra is fighting more than just Jiraya here(something you guys seem to be ignoring). And what happens if Jiraiya just thinks "block with hair". Cobra cant get past that.

His hair maybe poisoned initially but as long as he just gets rid of the poisoned part quickly he would still be fine. His hair literally becomes a jutsu after all.

 

[Rocker1189]

"Starts."
Please reread what I said. I said that Jiraiya fairly readily opts for CQC. Not that he starts with it. He'll be especially inclined when he sees Cobra dodging all of his attacks since he can read his mind.

The giant frogs are larger targets for his poison. Plus, Cobra can fly out of range. And he can hear their minds as well, so dodging is still as option.

If he sees that Cobra dodges all his attacks then why woul dhe go CQC that makes no sense.

And are still people he has to watch out for. He can fly and they can leap incredibly high. He would have a lot of mind reading to do. And again he has no counter to frog song.