7-A Brackets Finale

[Overlord775]

For one, the fact that Emiya has copied these abilities shows that they're capable of being copied in the first place.

EMIYA's copy ability >>>>> Lucario's

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Pretty sure the fact that it works up to Mewtwo's stuff (given that Mewtwo's also a user of Me-First) says the opposite.

 

[John985]

Im not even sure that's it's infinite combat experience.

This is where archer explain about being a guardians

Guardians do not save people.

All they do is clean up after humans. They take what has been done and nullify it with their powers."

"They do not save people. All they do is eliminate harmful people, without distinction of good or evil.

They do not save people in despair. Instead, they eliminate people in despair in order to save others who are enjoying life.

It's so ridiculous. How am I different from before?"

There's no difference.
There was just more despair.

He relied on a greater power since his powers alone were not enough.

But it ended up being the same.
He thought the power would make his wish come true, but it only made him do the same things on a greater scale.

"…Archer. You have repeated such a thing forever…?"

"I got used to it. Humans repeat things. The strong feed on the weak, regardless of what age we're talking about. And I came to realize that it is the most efficient way to prosper."

 

[Overlord775]

Lucario's power copy deosn't in any way scale to that of Mewtwo

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It's the same move.

 

[Overlord775]

Krilin's kamehameha and Goku's are the same move too

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Alright, so how does that equal infinite experience? Sure they're doomed to combat this stuff for eternity, but unless there were infinite mankind ending threats, it shouldn't grant the experience being alluded to by a long shot.
Don't get me wrong, Emiya's got experience that eclipses the likes of even Goku, but still.

Its not infinite, but they exist outside of time and even spawn across multiple time lines (although that is up for contension within the community, but I believe the Grand Orders speak for themselves). There aren't necesarily infinite, but it approaches it. I'm not the best at explaining this system, and I asked someone else on the Nasu discussion board to come over and explain it, but they spawn from the throne of heroes outside of time to fight a nigh infinite amount of threats. Not infinite, but across multiple timelines with as many threats as there are in the nasuverse between the dead apostles, the numerous grail wars, various insane and malevolent mages, terror attacks (yes, they are deployed against these), The Beasts and their minions, Every guy who tries to reach the root which includes almost all mages, cataclysms, mythological destroyers, Gods, etc. they might as well I am not claiming that they have infinite experience, but they might as well. Sorry If I'm not the best at explaining this. Even within the knowledgable members of the community, a lot of this is up for debate

 

[Wokistan]

I would think that we would go by Lucario's own feats with it.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Even disregarding that bit, it still works on all of the psychic moves.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Votes:

Enrico Pucci - 3 (Iapitus, Overlord, Zark)

Jackal Boi - 2 (Cal, Dragonpentling)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Tfw I just realized the Pucci connection...

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

"Being damaged by the sword negates healing. He just needs to blow it up in his face once and he is golden."
The profile and the imgur link in the profile states that wounds created by Herpe can't be healed. Nothing about it negating Regenerationn for everything else. And given that Lucario's not immortal, that other bit's not kicking in.

Its cuts negate healing, but its damage also refracts healing and immortal abilities. Altough, I realised that this doesn't matter anyway. If Lucario can learn it within the laws of nature and it doesn't make him immortal then Harpe wouldn't negate it anyway

 

[Overlord775]

Gae Bolg would negate it and it bypasses durability too

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Gae Bolg would negate it

that is also true

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Tfw I just realized the Pucci connection...

I think imma need to make a Pucci vs EMIYA Alter once this is done. It seems like the obvious match

 

[ZackMoon1234]

Just came here to comment on that nice banner between the two

 

[Moritzva]

I'll have to vote Big Dog for Cal's reasons.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

Voting EMIYA for Iapitus' reasons.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Had Bolg's...admittedly a massive problem, yes.

I gotta ask though. What does and doesn't work on Emiya? Between the projectile lolnope, the origin lolnope, and that his own stuff doesn't work on him, what else does he neg?

 

[Paul_Frank]

Garcher alter fra

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

About copying, iirc, Mimic from Mime Jr. canonically copied Darkrai's Dark Void.

 

[Dragopentling]

@Cal

heh, just letting you know....unless if it's Gilgy-kun...there's no way I would pick a Fate servant over a Pokemon, anyway...considering everything that has happened recently regarding the latter's franchise on this site.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Pucci - 5 (Iapitus, Zrk, Overlord, Paul, Stoned Orc)

Jackal - 3 (Cal, Dragonpentling, Pixel)

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

About copying, iirc, Mimic from Mime Jr. canonically copied Darkrai's Dark Void.

...Wouldn't that just be PIS, because in any other instance (Metronome, Me First, etc.) Dark Void fails/can't be used unless you've Imposter'd/Transformed into Darkrai?

 

[Tdtd1234]

EMIYA fra

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Dargoo. Do the start the distance of FD and they can increase the distance with platforms or do they start as far away as possible?

 

[Dragopentling]

6-3 now in favor of "NOT Emiya"

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

@Dargoo. Do the start the distance of FD and they can increase the distance with platforms or do they start as far away as possible?

SBA places them on two platforms as far away as their maximum range, so the latter.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Doesn't that give Archer an unfair advantage though?

 

[Overlord775]

Doesn't that give Archer an unfair advantage though?

Not really, it's just standard battle condictions

 

[Wokistan]

It still doesn't exceed the 4km without dargoo forcing it to.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yeah, they still both start in each other's range.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Lucario's fighting an uphill battle from the very beginning then. As projectiles don't work (which is a bit of an NLF but theres not a tier separating gap in power so it doesn't matter), Lucario's forced to get in close range.

I mean, doesn't change my vote as speed buffs + Extremespeed help close that distance, illusory duplicates allow Lucario to use those platforms to his advantage and force Emiya to fire at different platforms, and forcefields block anything that's not Cadabolg II, but...yeah.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Had Bolg's...admittedly a massive problem, yes.
I gotta ask though. What does and doesn't work on Emiya? Between the projectile lolnope, the origin lolnope, and that his own stuff doesn't work on him, what else does he neg?

Physical attacks, but you would need to get in close enough. Its not so much that he negates his own stuff, its that he is immune to projectiles and the stuff he uses it projectiles, so tossing his stuff back at him won't work. His Origin bullets don't work because its his concept of self weaponise.

To answer your question, he can negate magic both offensively and defensively. He probably has some other stuff but I don't remember off the top of my head

 

[Overlord775]

which is a bit of an NLF but theres not a tier separating gap in power so it doesn't matter

He can deflect NPs too, which most are above his tier in power

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I mean, I did say it doesn't matter here lol.

 

[Dragopentling]

what can this Emiya NOT deflect besides AOE, though?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Close combat (the term, not the move).

Question: What keeps Lucario from blowing up the weapons? There's probably several reasons, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

 

[Dragopentling]

also, is the AP calcs for Lucario listed in the box for his base form, or mega form? Right now I don't want the mistake of this entire thread calc'ing based on just the former.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Base