5-B Base Naruto and Toneri

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; I'm asking you these questions to try and make sure how you understand about what you're proposing. If you don't even know the value of what the new upgrades to Naruto will be, how can I tell if you've thought it through or not?

As stands right now Momoshiki is scaled to due to overwhelming Sasuke. Sasuke is scaled due to being equal to Naruto. Naruto is scaled due to overpowering Momoshiki.

So what that chain is, is: Momoshiki > Sasuke = Naruto > Momoshiki.

 

[AstralKing7]

Sasuke doesn't scale to Naruto anymore dude.

Sasuke scales to Jigen in the first place

That's the problem

Sasuke's current profile is 5B with Susanno not physically. He doesn't scale to base naruto

 

[AstralKing7]

Imo base naruto should scale to the values of Sasuke back in the war arc

Naruto is physically stronger than Sasuke in the first place for inheriting the body of Asura

 

[Kidkinsey]

Sasuke doesn't scale to Naruto anymore dude.
Sasuke scales to Jigen in the first place

That's the problem

Sasuke's current profile is 5B with Susanno not physically. He doesn't scale to base naruto

wait arent naruto and sasuke damn near equals? sasuke is about to be a tier lower then naruto?

 

[Damage3245]

Sasuke scaling to Jigen doesn't make a whole lot of sense; he landed two surprise kicks on him while he had his Karma active, and both attacks failed to visibly damage Jigen. At best he just knocked him back a bit which doesn't seem enough to fully scale Sasuke's Striking Strength to Jigen's Durability.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

But adult Sasuke phisically fight against Momoshiki in anime, novel, manga and movie. Sasuke should phisically scale to Six Paths Naruto without Kurama Avatar.

 

[Omimi]

as astral said Sasuke physically scales to Jigen

sasuke was never 5-B physically in vswiki before cuz many disagreed his feat against madara

because of new feats against Jigen he is going to become physically 5-B

As stands right now Momoshiki is scaled to due to overwhelming Sasuke

who said we scale him from sasuke physically ? when sasuke himself was never 5-B physically here

if anything Sasuke physically scale to Momoshiki

and Momoshiki scale to kaguya

his feat against rsm naruto and sasuke is just supporting feats

and i see no chain scale here

• kaguya scale above hagoromo

• Momoshiki scale to kaguya

• madara scales to hagoromo

• RSM naruto /Sasuke with ninjutsu scales to 50% hagoromo

• RSM naruto & Sasuke with ninjutsu also scales to madara

• Sasuke physically scales to Jigen or Momoshiki

• Jigen scales to RSM naruto

• base naruto physically scales to sasuke or Momoshiki

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; you do realize that the end result of that scaling is base Naruto being stronger than RSM Naruto...

 

[Omimi]

no u are wrong about that

in manga

rsm naruto little bit stronger than Momoshiki physically while base naruto can keep up with Momoshiki

• rsm naruto>Momoshiki>base naruto

 

[Damage3245]

But you've just said that Sasuke scales to Jigen who scales to RSM Naruto. If base Naruto scales to Sasuke, then he scales above RSM Naruto.

 

[Omimi]

sigh

Sasuke scales to Jigen but that does not mean he is 100% = Jigen

just like how base naruto scales to Momoshiki even thou he is weaker than Momoshiki

rsm naruto= Jigen>Momoshiki>base naruto/sasuke

u know that no?

are u trying to play game with/confusing me lol

even though he scale to Jigen

sasuke little bit weaker then Jigen/rsm naruto or Momoshiki

If base Naruto scales to Sasuke, then he scales above RSM Naruto.

what are u even talking about ?

base sasuke is below RSM Naruto not above him so how does base Naruto scales above RSM Naruto?

 

[Damage3245]

> Sasuke scales to Jigen but that does not mean he is 100% = Jigen

Okay, then what percentage of Jigen is he, according to you?

 

[Omimi]

u are literally trolling now

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

You guys need to stop these accusations.

 

[Omimi]

did u not see his questions

like he does not even know how power scale work here

he even asking what percentage of Jigen sasuke scale to

how should i/any one know about that

a stuff member shouldnt act like that

he is literally trying to confusing me with weird questions which has nothing to do with scaling

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

He asked a valid question. You said above that sasuke doesn't scale to 100% of Jigens power, so what percentage does he scale to? 70%, 80%?

 

[Omimi]

i did said

how should i/any one know about that

he simply weaker than him an unknown amount

he is not = to Jigen 100% but still scale to him

weaker character still can be scale from strong character


we cant rate them with any number can we ? e.g. 30% ,70%, 80%? .................


at-least i cant

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Okay, I haven't been following the thread, but I will say it was inappropriate for Omimi to be accusing Damage of trolling. I'm not saying one way or the other who is in the right as far as how the scaling or tiering works, but it's not right to accuse people of trolling based on a disagreement.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

In my personal opinion if you have to ask people on certain abilities and transformations you really can't give too much input on a crt.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Base Naruto should scale to Fused Momo, and SPSM should scale above that to an unknown degree, same with Jigen.

 

[BlackeJan]

If Base Naruto can stop F. Momoshiki Attack then he should scale like other characters that stop an enemies attack and they end up scaling

 

[Damage3245]

That doesn't seem like enough to me. That's more of a durability feat that a striking strength feat; it's certainly not enough to say that base Naruto is definitely equal to Momoshiki's striking strength.

 

[BlackeJan]

A lot of things done have enough evidence to u. There's characters in this website that takes just 1 thing for everything to scale to. He blocked a strike which mean his AP scales to it, I have seen staff members agree to this sort of thing and it's no difference from it.

 

[AstralKing7]

Sasuke scaling to Jigen doesn't make a whole lot of sense; he landed two surprise kicks on him while he had his Karma active, and both attacks failed to visibly damage Jigen. At best he just knocked him back a bit which doesn't seem enough to fully scale Sasuke's Striking Strength to Jigen's Durability.

Sighs this is a horrible argument. Just because Jigen didn't show any facial expressions doesn't mean he didn't take any damage


U missed the whole point of him going into Otsutsuki form. If he could fight Sasuke and Naruto without thwt form then why did he enter it??

Next u do understand people like Kaguya and Madara literally didn't show any facial expressions in their strongest forms. Madara got cut in half and didn't even blink. Kaguya got punched through ice and didn't even look shocked

 

[Damage3245]

I wasn't just referring to facial expressions; he didn't show any signs of damage to where he was hit either. He was just knocked back.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

In the manga we have Naruto blocking a strike from momoshiki, and in the anime we have him going hands on with him. Though Naruro definitely has a ton of durability feats in these fights so he should be 5-B in durability at the very least.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

So, another thing about taking the anime as canon over the manga...


The anime uses the original, uncut plot of the Boruto movie Kishimoto had written, which included Urashiki as a villain that fought Gaara and Chojuro. The part with Urashiki was only cut due to budget/runtime issues.

 

[AstralKing7]

I wasn't just referring to facial expressions; he didn't show any signs of damage to where he was hit either. He was just knocked back.

What the ?? Dude u do realize Iki's art is like that right? Naruto in that fight had no visible damage when he fought Karma Jigen. Ao didn't even have freaking visible damage from the Rasengan even tho he yelled in pain. Aos clothes weren't even ripped off

Sasuke literally has no visible damage from being stabbed multiple times by karma Jigen and he could swing his arm with so much ease even tho he got stabbed

He didn't even have holes in his body or clothes.

This argument is weak. This is literally the art of Iki.

Jigen literally got sent flying by Sasuke multiple times

The same Sasuke who sent Momoshiki flying multiple times in multiple mediums with a kick.

On top of that he literally got stabbed by rods that absorb chakra.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

TFO, that isn't how it works. We don't make a special exception for Naruto.

This isn't a counter argument and no exceptions are being made. I'm pointing out that there is no basis to claim Durability > Striking in Naruto and affirming that there is precedence backing my claim, which do happens to be the most sensical notion here.

 

[Damage3245]

This isn't a counter argument and no exceptions are being made. I'm pointing out that there is no basis to claim Durability > Striking in Naruto and affirming that there is precedence backing my claim, which do happens to be the most sensical notion here.

What do you mean? I'm not stating that Durability has to always be greater than Striking Strength.

I'm saying that without additional evidence, you can't scale Striking Strength to a characters durability.

I don't need to come up with "counter arguments" for that, that's just a fact.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Damage, Sasuke could draw blood from Jigen with hus strikes. This is shown in the scans where he kicks Jigen, similarly how we see Madara draws blood from Naruto when his Limbo punched him.

This further supports my argument about Chakra Mode (Post Six Paths Power Up) not amping Naruto's physical strength that much as Sasuke (Whom Base Naruto is Equal to) can physically fight on par with Chakra Mode Naruto. Only Naruto's Speed get a significant boost.

 

[Damage3245]

Where did he draw blood from Jigen? Do you have the page?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

This isn't a counter argument and no exceptions are being made. I'm pointing out that there is no basis to claim Durability > Striking in Naruto and affirming that there is precedence backing my claim, which do happens to be the most sensical notion here.

What do you mean? I'm not stating that Durability has to always be greater than Striking Strength.

I'm saying that without additional evidence, you can't scale Striking Strength to a characters durability.

I don't need to come up with "counter arguments" for that, that's just a fact.

Except There is proof. There is proof in my statement you quoted. The way this going is:

• You say Striking Can't be scaled to Durability Without Proof.

• My Argument states striking can be scaled to durability and above it in Naruto and cites a feat establishing precedence in the series.

So, yes, at this stage a counter argument is necessary.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Where did he draw blood from Jigen? Do you have the page?

Yeah, gimme a sec to grab 'em.

 

[Damage3245]

@TheFinalOrder; you gave an example of:

"The most recent example of this I can remember off the top of my head is Gai kicking Madara with Night Gai wherein his Durability couldn't withstand the force of his strike."

What does that have anything to do with what we're talking about? That just proves that Guy's durability doesn't scale to the AP of his Night Guy attack.

As for this:

"You say Striking Can't be scaled to Durability Without Proof."

Yes, if you don't have proof, I can't accept your argument.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Where did he draw blood from Jigen? Do you have the page?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@TheFinalOrder; you gave an example of:
"The most recent example of this I can remember off the top of my head is Gai kicking Madara with Night Gai wherein his Durability couldn't withstand the force of his strike."

What does that have anything to do with what we're talking about? That just proves that Guy's durability doesn't scale to the AP of his Night Guy attack.

As for this:

"You say Striking Can't be scaled to Durability Without Proof."

Yes, if you don't have proof, I can't accept your argument.

Night Guy is Taijutsu and illustrates Striking > Durability establishing precedence in the verse supporting the argument Striking Scsles from Durability in Naruto. This reminds me that Naruto vs Madara also supports this notion:

• Madara's Strikes Draw Blood from Naruto

• Naruto is able to trade Blows with Madara

• Naruto's Blows bruises Madara

• Madara can trade Blows with Naruto

 

[Damage3245]

> Night Guy is Taijutsu and illustrates Striking > Durability establishing precedence in the verse supporting the argument Striking Scsles from Durability in Naruto.

What does that have to do with scaling Striking Strength from durability? You're trying to connect two unrelated things.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

> Night Guy is Taijutsu and illustrates Striking > Durability establishing precedence in the verse supporting the argument Striking Scsles from Durability in Naruto.
What does that have to do with scaling Striking Strength from durability? You're trying to connect two unrelated things.

They're not two unrelated things. It's literally an illustration of Striking > Durability.

 

[Damage3245]

They're not two unrelated things. It's literally an illustration of Striking > Durability.

In one specific instance, yes. That has nothing to do with anything else.