5-B Base Naruto and Toneri

[Damage3245]

@AstralKing7; before spamming three posts in a row you might actually want to reread the scan. Obito specifically mentions both chakra and ocular powers, not just ocular powers.

> U do realize there is no such thing as rinnegan Sasuke right? Rinnegan Sasuke is base sasuke

That's your interpretation. I haven't seen much evidence supporting that.

 

[AstralKing7]

Dude powers=chakra man. This has already been established on the site and your making it mean something else literally


Also u literally ignored my points about Urashiki and the other rinnegan users who didn't get a increase in physical abilities which debunks your argument


There is no base Sasuke and that's fact. Your interpretation is the wrong one.


Also let me hit u with one of your own points u love to use in arguments to downgrade AP in Naruto. More chakra does not equal more AP.

There is literally a specific chakra for dojutsu. Even Tobirama talks about the high amount of chakra that is only focused into the sharingan and it's a special chakra as well as it not affecting the whole body

 

[Damage3245]

> More chakra does not equal more AP.

I don't believe that specific uses of chakra-based AP fully scales to some stats like striking strength or durability, but I'm relatively sure that there is a trend between increased amounts of chakra and increased AP. Not as a specific rule but as a guideline.

> Dude powers=chakra man. This has already been established on the site and your making it mean something else literally

Your proof being?

> Also u literally ignored my points about Urashiki and the other rinnegan users who didn't get a increase in physical abilities which debunks your argument

You have proof that nobody has ever became more powerful from using the Rinnegan?

> There is literally a specific chakra for dojutsu. Even Tobirama talks about the high amount of chakra that is only focused into the sharingan and it's a special chakra as well as it not affecting the whole body

Did you skip over the fact that Tobirama mentions that the individual becomes stronger as a result of the Sharinga?

> There is no base Sasuke and that's fact. Your interpretation is the wrong one.

Don't try to assert your interpretation as a fact. That's dishonest arguing.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

I agree with Damage3245.

 

[Mindovin]

@Damage

Eyes powers needs baseline chakra to be activated and stay activated and only original (maybe who has the same bloodline) can close it.

For this reason Kakashi's Sharingan constantly consumes chakra and he close with his headband, he can pump more chakra for MS or Kamui but he can't deactive it (cutting chakra flow completely), Sasuke and Madara can't use Sharingan after they are exhausted.

Also, please tell me where it's written or how you interpreted Obito gained power boost Rinnegan?

Original owners gain a boost as 2T Sasuke=Base Naruto while 3T Sasuke>KN0 Naruto. (226-230) Also, didn't Tobirama say something about this too?

Does Sasuke can deactive Rinnegan?

How this info effects the thread's purpose and OP point?

 

[Damage3245]

@Mindovin; according to Obito he gained both chakra and ocular powers just from implanting one Rinnegan into himself. With it being so strong that he started losing himself.

> Does Sasuke can deactive Rinnegan?

No idea.

> How this info effects the thread's purpose and OP point?

There seemed to be an argument at one point that Sasuke gaining the Rinnegan didn't increase his power at all. I was just trying to address that.

But to address the original OP's point, there seems to be not enough evidence proving that base Adult Naruto is 5-B.

 

[AstralKing7]

Okay so now u are trying to change my words damage?? I never said rinnegan users don't get stronger and I was even specific on how I worded


I said they get stronger in ocular powers which is backed up unlike your one statement that is debunked by the other rinnegan users as well as it being a statement that is so weird that it can be interpreted anyway but based on showsing it's not about physical abilities


Also adult Naruto is 5B in base now that's a fact.

He scales to Sasuke who is 5B in base and Momoshiki

 

[Damage3245]

@AstralKing7; I don't agree with him scaling to 5-B Sasuke, however he does appear to withstand a strike from Momoshiki in the OP so I can see him being argued for 5-B durability at best.

I don't agree with backscaling this to Toneri.

 

[Omimi]

> I don't agree with backscaling this to Toneri.

u dont have to anyway and its not backscaling cuz

Tenseigan can recreate earth from it ashes = 5-B

+ last base naruto has low 5-B calc

and physically

SPSM naruto > = Momoshiki >= base naruto/sasuke

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; "recreating Earth from its ashes" ain't exactly a solid AP feat. Especially since the Moon slamming into the Earth wouldn't even reduce it to ashes anyway.

 

[Omimi]

it is solid AP

creating earth will give u 5-B

wiki accept creation feats for tier and ap

if u have problam how wiki works than 1st chang it

dont argue here

Especially since the Moon slamming into the Earth wouldn't even reduce it to ashes anyway.

headcaonon

Toneri says it would

 

[AstralKing7]

@AstralKing7; I don't agree with him scaling to 5-B Sasuke, however he does appear to withstand a strike from Momoshiki in the OP so I can see him being argued for 5-B durability at best.

I don't agree with backscaling this to Toneri.

Bro Naruto physically fought rinnegan Sasuke


It's like u don't know how taijutsu works. If his durability is 5B his AP is as well

 

[Damage3245]

@AstralKing7; you're talking about Part 2 Naruto. When has Adult Naruto ever fought Sasuke?

> It's like u don't know how taijutsu works. If his durability is 5B his AP is as well

AP doesn't automatically scale to durability. It's the other way around, in most cases.

 

[Omimi]

@ Damage3245

what are u even saying ?

base naruto not only tank momoshiki punch/kick

he also block momoshiki punch with his hand

so he need to have 5B Strength to block 5B attack

are we even reading the same manga

 

[Damage3245]

Omimi, you've resorted once again to insults. "Are we even reading the same manga" is such a pathetic line that it really makes me want to stop talking to you.

 

[Kidkinsey]

i dont think sasuke can deactivate his rinnegan only the tomoe go away even when his is clearly fatigued only one of his eyes go back to normal which is probably why he keeps one eye covered with his hair

and i do think upgrading eyes ups your stats as we seen with madara and sasuke and even kakashi going dms and reacting to kaguya

 

[Lgamer099_99]

i dont think sasuke can deactivate his rinnegan only the tomoe go away even when his is clearly fatigued only one of his eyes go back to normal which is probably why he keeps one eye covered with his hair

and i do think upgrading eyes ups your stats as we seen with madara and sasuke and even kakashi going dms and reacting to kaguya

In the Last there was a moment with Sasuke without rinnegan, but I don't know if It was just a mistake.

https://i.redd.it/garyico06pk11.jpg

 

[Celestial_Judge]

The Rinnegan does not whatsoever enhance physical properties such as Physical Strength and Physical Durability. Nowhere is this even implied. That's straight up headcannon.

 

[Kidkinsey]

im guessing a mistake because when him and naruto did the final raengan vs chidori the eye was closed due to fatigue, and in the bourto era when he gets tired it reverts to a normal rinnegan

 

[Celestial_Judge]

i dont think sasuke can deactivate his rinnegan only the tomoe go away even when his is clearly fatigued only one of his eyes go back to normal which is probably why he keeps one eye covered with his hair

and i do think upgrading eyes ups your stats as we seen with madara and sasuke and even kakashi going dms and reacting to kaguya

In the Last there was a moment with Sasuke without rinnegan, but I don't know if It was just a mistake.
https://i.redd.it/garyico06pk11.jpg

This was BEEN considered a mistake.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

In the Last there was a moment with Sasuke without rinnegan, but I don't know if It was just a mistake.
https://i.redd.it/garyico06pk11.jpg

This was BEEN considered a mistake.

Good to know.

 

[BlackeJan]

@AstralKing7; I don't agree with him scaling to 5-B Sasuke, however he does appear to withstand a strike from Momoshiki in the OP so I can see him being argued for 5-B durability at best.

Gonna have to stop you right there. If he has to Durability to block that hit then he has that same AP to give out (something on this site that we use iirc)

Example: Tien blocking Nappa's forearm attack. His arm gets take off and we know that he doesn't scale at all

 

[Damage3245]

@BlackeJan; I don't think that's true. AP does not scale automatically to durability unless there is a given reason for it.

 

[BlackeJan]

Well yeah but that's only works in Izuku Midoriya's case since his body can't handle the power. This is different though since he blocked an attack the didn't rip out his arm or cause him harm like Tien did so that means he actually 5B (of course to a lesser extent)

 

[Damage3245]

@BlackeJan; that's a different situation. Withstanding an attack shows that your durability scales up to the AP of the attack; that doesn't prove you have the ability to hit back with just as much force.

This is a common misconception I've found.

 

[BlackeJan]

It's not though....Tien vs Nappa is the perfect example of it. Iirc we even go by something like this because of a Law by a scientist in RL

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

So, I just came into this thread to clear up the whole "Base Sasuke" vs. "Rinnegan Sasuke" thing.

Sasuke never has his Rinnegan deactivated. Except for one scene in Naruto: The Last, which was in production before the manga was finished, Sasuke is drawn with his Rinnegan active beneath his hair at all times. I have multiple scans already uploaded to this site to prove this, from the anime and the manga:


Naruto, Chapter 700


Sasuke leaving the village at the canonical end of the anime.


Boruto: The Next Generations Chapter 1, Page 58


Boruto Episode 65, Sasuke's speech to Boruto



Sasuke, shortly after discussing what happened to Boruto at the end of the fight with Momoshiki, then talking casually to his daughter.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

There is not any other instance besides this single scene:


And this from a movie which was, again, in production prior to the release of chapter 700.
From what can be surmised, there is no way to "deactivate" a Rinnegan if you're not an Otsutsuki, unless you get Edo Tensei'd after dying, in which case the Rinnegan becomes permanently active upon first use. Madara never switches his eyes back to EMS after activating his Rinnegan to absorb Naruto's Rasenshuriken.

In the same way, Sasuke has never canonically been shown to deactivate his Rinnegan.

 

[Damage3245]

It's not though....Tien vs Nappa is the perfect example of it. Iirc we even go by something like this because of a Law by a scientist in RL

No, Tien getting his arm ripped off by Nappa's strike proves that his durability does not scale to Nappa's AP.

You're thinking of the opposite of it; where we scale durability to AP/Striking Strength because characters can withstand the force of their own attacks.

 

[BlackeJan]

Funny though cause Base Naruto however can still wistand the force of Momo who has 5B. I remember saying the same thing u said a long time ago but was shot down cause of the whole "if you can wistand the attack, that means that you can also produce that amount" and this was what everyone said to me a long time ago (don't remember the thread though sadly)

 

[Damage3245]

As I said, it's a common misconception.

 

[BlackeJan]

Can't be if even that staff were saying it as well

 

[Celestial_Judge]

There is no base sasuke or Rinnegan sasuke. Like I'm sorry but who is making this stuff up?

 

[Damage3245]

@Celestial Judge; I think some people use the term "base Sasuke" when referring to Sasuke without his Susano'o active.

But anyway, I think it's been sufficiently proven by Stoned Orc that Sasuke always his Rinnegan active.

 

[BlackeJan]

Well what is the OP suggesting with Rinne Sharigan being always active?

 

[Mindovin]

@Damage

according to Obito he gained both chakra and ocular powers just from implanting one Rinnegan into himself. With it being so strong that he started losing himself

He doesn't say what you are implying and there is no indication he got a power boost from the eye.

Obito says I wasn't able to implant both Rinnegan myself... Even this one eye's chakra and ocular powers are so strong I started losing myself which there is no indication he gained the chakra from the eye but opposite as he himself says that he couldn't implant both eyes at the same time because its chakra too strong and his can barely handle one Rinnegan.

Just implanting 1 Rinnegan demanding because its chakra and ocular powers are so strong Obito start losing himself which is the reason he didn't implant the other. If it gave him chakra which means more power why wouldn't he implant the other one?

Also, Sasuke's Rinnegan doesn't that demanding that Sasuke believes Kakashi can handle it and use it for undoing IT when Obito Uchiha whose half of his body made by Hashirama's cells says he can barely handle one of Madara's Rinnegan.

There seemed to be an argument at one point that Sasuke gaining the Rinnegan didn't increase his power at all. I was just trying to address that.

> Because it didn't. His powers increase because Hagoromo gave him his chakra. If you have proof of his Rinnegan incrreased his power or chakra please share with us.

But to address the original OP's point, there seems to be not enough evidence proving that base Adult Naruto is 5-B.

> Matched Sasuke physically who has killing intent in base then tanks hit from SPS Sasuke in SPSM.

I personally don't want to touch Boruto until it concluded but: Tanked hits from Kinshiki Absorbed Momoshilki while in base who was beating Sasuke and equaled to SPSM Naruto.

Generally it seems durability feats to me. Iirc Base Naruto doesn't have an ap feat to equal other God-tiers but he gonna scale to others most likely if Toneri did harm him with any of his non-hax attacks.

@BlackeJan

If a character's striking strength is 5-B then said character's durability is 5-B too, not the other way around.

Durability

Logically, characters capable of physically achieving a certain degree of energy output, must be able to at least withstand a comparable amount of damage, or their bodies would break apart from the strain and automatic counterforce, whenever they exert themselves.

 

[Damage3245]

@Mindovin; let's agree to disagree on the Rinnegan bit. It's not the main focus of this thread anyway.

> If it gave him chakra which means more power why wouldn't he implant the other one?

Probably because implanting the other eye would mean losing his Sharingan, which means losing Kamui.

You may be interpreting the text a bit differently to me; Obito isn't saying that the demands for chakra are too draining from just one Rinnegan.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

I'm confused so what's the argument here

 

[Damage3245]

I'm confused so what's the argument here

There seems to be two major evidences put forward to make base Adult Naruto 5-B:

• Naruto withstanding being hit a couple times by Momoshiki.

• Naruto clashing with Sasuke at the Valley of the End.

There are problems with both of these IMO; seeing as the first one is a durability feat and not an AP feat, and the second one is a feat for Part 2 Naruto / Part 2 Sasuke. There isn't a direct link to base Adult Naruto there, or Adult Sasuke.

 

[AstralKing7]

Dude...

If part 2 base Sasuke is 5B then base naruto is 5B which makes base adult Naruto 5B.

Adult Sasuke is 5B physically


Taijutsu users have to have physically strong bodies to be able to fight. If the users durability is 5B than their AP is 5B. This isn't about chakra control right now this is pure physical abilities

Yea AP isn't always equal to durability but it is when it comes to taijutsu