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5-B Base Naruto and Toneri

Damage3245 said:
@AstralKing7; by itself, that statement doesn't seem to mean a lot. He has a life of life-force and physical energy, sure. But how does that prove that base Naruto is always physically superior to base Sasuke?
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It doesn't have to prove that he is superior it's support that his base is 5B

Also yeah u do realize that your wrong about life force to right bruh?

The Uzamaki clans are the ones with a ton of life force and that's distinguished.


And do u understand what physically energy is the stuff that makes your body strong. How does thst statement by itself not mean anything?
 
can someone give me a TLDR

I would like to add that yes Rinnegan's do Improve your power. including your Physical stats despite never being outright stated it's consistent and heavily implied in the narrative
 
@Shadow;

The TL;DR, is that the group in favor of scaling base Naruto to 5-B is this panel of Naruto blocking one of Momoshiki's punches.

My argument has been that this is primarily a Durability feat, not a Striking Strength feat since Naruto isn't punching Momoshiki here. And we don't scale a characters Striking Strength from their Durability.
 
Yeah, that should be a Durability feat

You can see that Momoshiki attempts to punch him but Naruto blocks it with his arm, not his his fist, unless if there's a panel where they clashed with their fists.
 
Punches him with an elbow??

Does anyone here knows how to fight?

Because that's not a punch

That's an elbow attack literally which causes a clash between him and Naruto being able to withstand it
 
Damage3245 said:
@Shadow;

The TL;DR, is that the group in favor of scaling base Naruto to 5-B is this panel of Naruto blocking one of Momoshiki's punches.

My argument has been that this is primarily a Durability feat, not a Striking Strength feat since Naruto isn't punching Momoshiki here. And we don't scale a characters Striking Strength from their Durability.
Click to expand...

And damage can u tell the truth. That's not the only evidence

He literally has fought base Sasuke so why onyl say Momoshiki?

Also the evidence about him getting asuras body

And yes we do scale striking strength to durability. It's not that it's against the rules it's simply case by case

Also which this thread is pretty much derailed because of the whole durability thing

This thread is simply about Naruto fighting and scaling to base Sasuke.

If there are any support feats for Naruto we can bring that up later this thread is being derailed
 
> Also the evidence about him getting asuras body

Which chapter did this happen again? I don't remember him specifically inherited Ashura's "body". Just that he was a reincarnation of his soul and he was bestowed power from the Sage.

> And yes we do scale striking strength to durability. It's not that it's against the rules it's simply case by case

Which rule states we treat it case by case?

> This thread is simply about Naruto fighting and scaling to base Sasuke.

That's Teen Sasuke. Why are you trying to backscale Sasuke fighting Jigen to the version of Sasuke that fought Naruto at the Valley of the End.
 
@Damage and Shadow

Also, Sasuke vs Naruto at VOTE .

@Astral

And yes we do scale striking strength to durability.

> I think you mean: ...we do scale striking strength from their durability or ...durability to striking strength. Because that isn't what @Damage is saying.
 
@Mindovin; Sasuke in Part 2 only has Planet level Striking Strength with his Perfect Susano'o.

I don't see why we should backwards-scale Part 2 Sasuke to his present Adult self.
 
You haven't explained how it actually negates the second part of that.

If it's established that Durability isn't > Striking in verse, that means Durability cannot be above striking.
It's incredibly simple dude....like, extremely. Striking in Naruto is => Durability.

So if X character has 10 exaton Durability, their striking is => 10 Exatons because the goddamn verse illustrates Durability is not > Striking.
 
The Final Order; for the last time, that's not how that works!

You're trying to apply something in a specific case "Might Guy's attack broke his own leg" and trying to apply that to every other character. It just doesn't work.

Seriously; just break down what you're saying:

1) Durability isn't > Striking in verse

Explain where this is stated to be a universal rule. Don't just give me one example of a character who has higher offensive power than defensive power.

You need to prove that this applies to every character in the verse.

2) that means Durability cannot be above striking.

Where is this stated? What law is there that a characters durability cannot be higher than their striking strength?

Stop repeating yourself over and over. Prove it. Don't just say it.
 
Lmao the durability page literally explains that a character must have durability equal to his AP so the body can survive the energy output


First of all damage...how are u going to say that we need to stop assuming that AP isn't equal to durability in verse because it's not stated


But u can assume that durability is higher than AP for everyone when it's not stated

Nani!!?

Answer that using a statement because we all have been reading Naruto and Boruto for years and there is no statement
 
> Lmao the durability page literally explains that a character must have durability equal to his AP so the body can survive the energy output

Which is what I've been saying.

> But u can assume that durability is higher than AP for everyone when it's not stated

I didn't say assume it to be higher. I said we can't assume the Striking Strength is equal to a character's Durability. We can assume the opposite however due to Newton's Laws.
 
So you've basically been saying that durability(in this case which is 5B) is equal to AP because that's what the page says???


U do realize if that's what you've been saying than u have been derailing this whole thread right?
 
He agrees to scaling durability from striking strenght ap etc, but he doesnt agree to scaling ap striking etc to Durability.

At least from what i understood, which i agree with.
 
Thank you Shrek.

Astral, please re-read Shrek's post a few times so there are no misunderstandings.
 
But then we have to assume durability is higher than AP in the verse for taijutsu users even tho that's not stated anywhere?

This is very unsound because it's basically assumptions
 
Damage3245 said:
The Final Order; for the last time, that's not how that works!

You're trying to apply something in a specific case "Might Guy's attack broke his own leg" and trying to apply that to every other character. It just doesn't work.

Seriously; just break down what you're saying:

1) Durability isn't > Striking in verse

Explain where this is stated to be a universal rule. Don't just give me one example of a character who has higher offensive power than defensive power.

You need to prove that this applies to every character in the verse.

2) that means Durability cannot be above striking.

Where is this stated? What law is there that a characters durability cannot be higher than their striking strength?

Stop repeating yourself over and over. Prove it. Don't just say it.
Click to expand...
Omg, dude, it does.

What I am saying is that the feat (And goddamn, I referenced others if you're paying attention) sets a precedence in the verse, but you seemingly aren't understanding that.

  • The Madara and Gai feat is there telling you that yes, Striking can be > Durability (Thus Precedence).
  • I also referenced two other showing the same.
You saying "prove it" is pissing me off because I have ******* proved it while you're dodging trying to have to justify your baseless assertion.

  • Referenced a feat setting a precedence in verse.
  • Referenced Two other Characters showing the same (Thus Supporting my initial stance)
Then I got you over saying, "It doesn't work like that..." like tf? Like I said, bring counter evidence or your stance is defunct and voided here. I'm not gonna go back and forth with you either, don't tell me that's not how it works when I've proved my point and you're not proving yours...
 
What you don't seem to understand is that the Striking Strength > Durability feat in Might Guy's fight doesn't prove anything. It doesn't counter the point I'm trying to explain to you.

The same thing happens in MHA, and we don't change the rules for MHA either.
 
@AstralKing7; it's the other way around.

You even agreed with me. You pointed out the bit mentioned in the Durability page which is what I've been saying this whole time.

@Mindovin; I find the feat of Sasuke bisecting Madara to be a bit questionable for rating his Striking Strength since he accomplished it through Ninjutsu and not purely physical strength.
 
I agreed with you that durability and striking strength scales to each other.

Do u ever look at how u word things

And can u please tell us your point?

I jsut asked u this; what is your point that you're trying to assert to TFO
 
@AstralKing7; not scales to each other. One of them scales to the other.

1) Striking Strength is the output of energy a character has, and due to Newton's Laws they must be capable of withstanding the amount of energy they're unleashing otherwise they would hurt themselves. Therefore you can scale a character's Durability to their Striking Strength.

2) If a character hurts themselves when attacking (punching so hard their fist or their arm shatters), then their Striking Strength has surpassed their durability. Therefore you cannot scale their Durability to their Striking Strength.

3) If a character can tank a certain amount of damage, you have their Durability. For example, if All Might withstood a City level bomb at point-blank range, then we could rate his Durability at City level. However Newton's Laws don't work the other way around; getting a character's Durability tells you nothing about their Striking Strength. Therefore even though we could rate All Might's Durability as City level because of his earlier bomb feat, we can't rate his Striking Strength at City level.

If there is a problem with how I have worded any of that, please let me know ASAP.
 
AFAIK, once you reach the 8 Gates, you reach the point of no return. Whether you attack or not won't matter because it's damaging the body from the inside out due to the sheer power being emitted by it. It's like Kaio-Ken but worse. So it's prolly a stamina-related issue and has nothing to do with AP or dura IMHO.
 
Damage3245 said:
@AstralKing7; not scales to each other. One of them scales to the other.

1) Striking Strength is the output of energy a character has, and due to Newton's Laws they must be capable of withstanding the amount of energy they're unleashing otherwise they would hurt themselves. Therefore you can scale a character's Durability to their Striking Strength.

2) If a character hurts themselves when attacking (punching so hard their fist or their arm shatters), then their Striking Strength has surpassed their durability. Therefore you cannot scale their Durability to their Striking Strength.

3) If a character can tank a certain amount of damage, you have their Durability. For example, if All Might withstood a City level bomb at point-blank range, then we could rate his Durability at City level. However Newton's Laws don't work the other way around; getting a character's Durability tells you nothing about their Striking Strength. Therefore even though we could rate All Might's Durability as City level because of his earlier bomb feat, we can't rate his Striking Strength at City level.

If there is a problem with how I have worded any of that, please let me know ASAP.
Click to expand...
This is what you fail to realize.
This notion that you cannot get Striking from Durability us completely arbitrary. What is it based on? I'll wait, because even IRL, Striking > Durability.

As far as how that notion relates to Naruto-Verse, '''I have already established that Striking Is superior to durability from several characters''' thus there is precedence in verse to assert that Striking In Naruto as a whole is => Durability (Unless you have Counter Evidence showing the opposite).

I'm so tired of having to explain this to you, dude.

  • There is no evidence in Naruto that Durability is > Striking (Granted you aren't saying it is, but your stance basically leaves it that).
  • There is proof (That I have shown and referenced) from several characters that Striking is => Durability At Least.
There should be no argument here. Striking should scale from Durability in Naruto. Idgaf about other fictional verses. In NARUTO, this is the case.
 
> There should be no argument here. Striking should scale from Durability in Naruto. Idgaf about other fictional verses. In NARUTO, this is the case.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to shut you down here. We don't make special exceptions for the Naruto Verse.

If you want this to change, and scale striking strength from durability on the site, you're going to have to make a CRT to get the site to accept it first before you try and use it for Naruto.
 
Lmao this is the crt dude and u keep saying your gonna shut someone down without any counter evidence


So I'm just going to get a discussion mod or content mod instead to evaluate TFOs evidence and the durability page


Also btw none of this has anything to do with base Naruto scaling to base sasuke
 
@AstralKing7; I already provided all the explanations. How else can I explain it? I did ask you to respond if you thought that what I posted up above wasn't explained well enough.

As for base Naruto scaling to base Sasuke - I do think it is problematic as we're basically saying that Naruto's Striking Strength with the Six Paths Sage Mode is no higher than his base form's Striking Strength. It seems inherently wrong which makes me think that the scaling hasn't been properly analyzed or there is something up with the feats for the characters.
 
Damage3245 said:
> There should be no argument here. Striking should scale from Durability in Naruto. Idgaf about other fictional verses. In NARUTO, this is the case.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to shut you down here. We don't make special exceptions for the Naruto Verse.

If you want this to change, and scale striking strength from durability on the site, you're going to have to make a CRT to get the site to accept it first before you try and use it for Naruto.
Click to expand...
No, it doesn't work like that, sorry, and Naruto isn't an "exception", the verse has simply proven itself to work like that.
You're acting like I'm arbitrarily asserting something but no, that's not what is happening. We try to hold all verses to the same standards. It's not my fault, Naruto-Verse shows that this specific standard is not applicable towards it. A CTR to change the wiki isn't necessary just because one verse sets a precedence of showing Striking being => Durability in the confines of its own story.

You just cannot simply ignore it and say Striking doesn't scale when the verse says otherwise....
 
@TFO; the verse doesn't say that. Seriously; what you should be doing is creating at a chain of logic, like A => B => C.

Instead you're saying "We have A, therefore C is true!"

Where is the connecting logic?

You say that Guy's striking strength was higher than his durability, since he broke his own leg? Okay, that's fine. I get that. There's characters like that on the wiki, Izuku Midoriya being the easiest to recall.

Then you make a leap in logic to say "Therefore every characters striking strength is greater or equal to their own durability!"

What? That's just not supported.
 
The Causality said:
Honestly at this rate I don't think the thread will reach a goal.
Click to expand...
Since the God Tiers 5-B status is being called into question on another thread, this revision should probably be halted anyway.
 
Rereading the Op

Shouldn't base Adult Sasuke scale a little bit higher since he was able to Fight Momoshiki with a weakened Rinnegan?

Shouldn't Base Naruto should scale to Momoshiki for clashing with him in base form?

And Also didn't Naruto do that feat casually with a chunk of Chakra being left out of him because he made a Kurama Avatar?
 
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