[15th Round of 8-B Tournament] - The Hunter vs Celistia Ralgris (7-5-0)

[Mr. Bambu]

Hax isn't. A lot of it is just measured in tiers, number of people affected, or how many higher layers it can affect (see: 4-D, 5-D, 6-D, and so on).

Skill cannot be measured in the same way, ergo arguing and bickering over which of two vastly superhuman skill feats is better is pointless unless they can be easily translated (example: character A has trained for ten million years, character B has trained for the lifespan of eight thousand universes, the latter is quantifiably better)

 

[00potato]

Yeah it is. We made up a way to measure some but mostly it is unquantifiable, even more so in the case of skill.

 

[Ionliosite]

And on that line, training for 10 million years isn't automatically better than training for 10, since what they're training, what they do on their training, and what results they get from said training doesn't always equate to the time trained. There's a reason you can get massive skill jumps on a month while characters who just go around on perfectly mundane training for centuries.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

And on that line, training for 10 million years isn't automatically better than training for 10, since what they're training, what they do on their training, and what results they get from said training doesn't always equate to the time trained. There's a reason you can get massive skill jumps on a month while characters who just go around on perfectly mundane training for centuries.

I agree. Hence subjectivism. Hence why arguing over it is pointless. Nothing translates perfectly.

 

[Ionliosite]

You don't agree if you think that's subjective. I literally gave an example of why it wasn't.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

You don't agree if you think that's subjective. I literally gave an example of why it wasn't.

I do agree insofar as "And on that line, training for 10 million years isn't automatically better than training for 10, since what they're training, what they do on their training, and what results they get from said training doesn't always equate to the time trained", which is ostensibly your core argument. It's subjective in the sense that it depends on the individual to consider how useful they feel one training type is over the other, or how much time weighs into it, etc. You didn't disprove subjectivism in skill.

 

[00potato]

How is that an example? That exemplifies the uncertainty and subjectiveness

 

[Ionliosite]

It's an example because it proves just saying "he trained for x amount time" isn't enough, since the results of said trainings don't equate to the amount of time trained.

It's subjective in the sense that it depends on the individual to consider how useful they feel one training type is over the other, or how much time weighs into it, etc.

It doesn't depend on the individual, it depends on the results of what they do with their training. Just training boxing for 30 years won't be the same as being a master on jujitsu, MMA and aikido on 2 years. It's not because of time, but because of the results.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

why do you continue to prove my point and not realize it

 

[Ionliosite]

What do you mean?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean by saying your opinion on it without giving concrete reasoning for it is proving that this is subjective. It relies on your opinion. I disagree, so both of our interpretations are subjective. The results and their efficiency? Open to interpretation as to how that plays out here.

All of this is purely opinion based, whereas hax has definitive numbers (optimally) that can be put towards it.

 

[Ionliosite]

Man, saying that because two people disagree on something then that's subjective, is something that can be stretched to the whole "everything is subjective" logic. People having different opinions on a topic is something that applies to everything, after all.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm saying that it's based on opinions because it is. Our two dissenting points of view, neither with the means to factually disprove the other, proves this is subjective. Because that's what subjective means. Based on opinion. It doesn't have concrete measurements. There's no part of a skill debate that isn't interpretation.

Ergo, it's a stupid argument. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

 

[Ionliosite]

Yeah, that whole "everything is subjective" thing again. We might as well throw away the whole wiki since people disagree with us, and stop doing stupid things like matches because they have conflicting opinions and thus are subjective and irrelevant.

 

[00potato]

How does it lead to everything is subjective? The point is that there are no factual means of disproving the opinion or any accurate form of measurement, making it subjective. Do you have a response or are you just gonna repeat yourself.

 

[Schnee_One]

@Ion That is a massive false equivalence.

Tiering and Feats are objectively qualified through calculations, and statements and are accepted through CRTs

Skill and what's more impressive is entirely subjectivecas what's quantifuable is much more difficult to pin point

 

[Ionliosite]

It leads to "everything is subjective" because people have different opinions on different things. Difference of perception itself is a part of human nature. Having conflicted opinions about something that doesn't mean it's stupid and irrelevant.

 

[Ionliosite]

Tiering and Feats are objectively qualified through calculations, and statements and are accepted through CRTs

Yeah, but people can disagree with the ratings. That's my whole point. Just because people have different opinions on a matter makes it stupid.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The fact that opinions exist isn't the problem. The problem is when the thing is based only on opinions and interpretation.

You can have an opinion on Star Wars mindhax, it's still concretely quantifiable as quadrillions of minds or however many that buggery affects nowadays. You can have an opinion on the energy output of a gun, it's still quantifiable as in the hundreds to thousands of joules.

 

[Schnee_One]

Disagreeing with quantifiable ratings is one thing, disagreeing with what makes a person more skilled almost never is

 

[ZackMoon1234]

So still 7-5 in favor of TH

 

[Ionliosite]

11 hours of grace left, yeah.

 

[Ionliosite]

Ok, match was added as incon.

 

[Schnee_One]

I thought you couldn't add as an Incon until there's a three vote difference?

 

[TheArcening]

The Hunter FRA

 

[Overlord775]

I thought you couldn't add as an Incon until there's a three vote difference?

a 3 vote difference is for a win on either side tho, that litterally can't be an inconclusive match

@Arcening

Two days too late there pal

 

[Schnee_One]

Versus Thread Rules quite literally state that a 7-5 vote difference is invalid

 

[Overlord775]

For a verdict, there must be at least seven votes in favor of one character/team, with a minimum difference of three votes. Some examples:

• A final vote tally of 6-0 will be considered invalid.
• A final vote tally of 7-0 will be considered valid.
• A final vote tally of 7-4 will be considered valid.
• A final vote tally of 7-5 will be considered invalid.

This doesn't count for Inconclusive matches

 

[Schnee_One]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3760346?useskin=oasis

So I ended up looking through the versus thread removal request and found a similar situation with another match (Its about halfway down)

Apparently it stops being grace at 7-5

So we never hit Grace, actually we hit grace with Arcs vote

 

[Overlord775]

For a verdict, there must be at least seven votes in favor of one character/team, with a minimum difference of three votes. Some examples:

• A final vote tally of 6-0 will be considered invalid.
• A final vote tally of 7-0 will be considered valid.
• A final vote tally of 7-4 will be considered valid.
• A final vote tally of 7-5 will be considered invalid.

This doesn't count for Inconclusive matches

but this tho

 

[Schnee_One]

Hold on let me check something.

 

[Wokistan]

Yeah I'm pretty sure that if it goes below that threshold it just goes out of grace, since it's no longer a valid vote count. It would kind of defeat the whole purpose of grace to just keep it going even if people manage to get some people to swap their votes within that final day.

 

[Schnee_One]

So....

It's 8-5

So I guess it's grace now?

 

[Ionliosite]

Matches that end grace on a 7-5 vote difference are considered to have ended on incon, that's literally the rule.

 

[Ionliosite]

Also, I just noticed, The Arcening's account was literaly created to comment here. Isn't that suspicious?

 

[Overlord775]

It sure is

 

[00potato]

Definitely, you should remove the vote unless he starts being active soon.

 

[Schnee_One]

Yeah that is suspicious

 

[TheArcening]

Sorry about that Im kinda new here and I saw this when I looked at this wiki and got interested in it and when I saw you guys were at a halt and no one else was voting I decided to try and vote

 

[TheArcening]

If you need to remove it thats ok