DC Cosmology up

[Tiktime]

Since the cosmology was separated by some notable writers, decided to throw in a comic from a neutral atvor as a baseline for scaling the cosmology.

In a multiverse, there are universes with any number of spatial dimensions (From League of Justice#2)

We witness the birth and deaths of countless universes: see time create itself in a myriad of different vectors: Experience being folded into any number of spatial dimensions

From this it is already possible for the rest of cosmology to attract Low 1-A and even 1-A. As an example with Morpheus.

There are dreams that are more real than reality,and they are infinitely recursive. (The Sandman#15) And thus Morpheus must have 1-A. He can also drive a person into an infinite layers Dream.(The Sandman#1)

 

[Brogeefrong]

Since the cosmology was separated by some notable writers, decided to throw in a comic from a neutral atvor as a baseline for scaling the cosmology.

In a multiverse, there are universes with any number of spatial dimensions

Spatial dimensions thing needs implied transendance i’m pretty sure

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

There are dreams that are more real than reality, and they are infinitely recursive. And thus Morpheus must have 1-A. He can also drive a person into an infinite layers Dream.

The last part isn't about infinite layers of dream. It's just mean an infinite loop where the guy is eternally stuck in dreams within dreams.

 

[Hypertornado099]

It does not say layers anywhere and "more real" in this case does not mean it views reality as fiction.

 

[Robo432343]

In a multiverse, there are universes with any number of spatial dimensions

if you can prove these spatial dimensions are qualitatively superior to each other than maybe this can be 1-A

 

[Firestorm808]

Please have all comic scans cited for any staff evaluations.

 

[Tiktime]

The last part isn't about infinite layers of dream. It's just mean an infinite loop where the guy is eternally stuck in dreams within dreams.

Well, it doesn't really make a difference, I guess.

if you can prove these spatial dimensions are qualitatively superior to each other than maybe this can be 1-A

Sort of, aren't spatial dimensions like that by default?

 

[Tiktime]

Please have all comic scans cited for any staff evaluations.

You mean in words to write what's in the comics?

 

[Tiktime]

It does not say layers anywhere and "more real" in this case does not mean it views reality as fiction.

well, then what could it possibly mean?

 

[Brogeefrong]

You mean in words to write what's in the comics?

like links to where these comics are

 

[Tiktime]

like links to where these comics are

Got it, is the title ok or a link to the reader straight away?

 

[Samael_010]

Agree really hard on the any number spatial dimension

 

[Brogeefrong]

Sort of, aren't spatial dimensions like that by default?

Currently in this wiki they aren't im pretty sure, if you can prove that are qualitatively I could see this as 1-B

 

[Firestorm808]

I'm not sure we can use League of Justice since its an Elseworlds story.

League of Justice Vol 1

League of Justice is an Elseworlds story in a fantasy setting. League of Justice #1 League of Justice #2 Cover Gallery: League of Justice Vol 1 Collections from League of Justice Vol 1 Images from League of Justice Vol 1

dc.fandom.com

Additionally, the writer seems to have limited contribution to the overall cosmology.

Ed Hannigan/Writer

dc.fandom.com

 

[Firestorm808]

Do we have justifications that these layers of dreams are more superior than the last?

 

[Robo432343]

Do we have justifications that these layers of dreams are more superior than the last?

only thing we got so far is this
i doubt its going to be accepted but if it is, it would affect vertigos cosmology

 

[Firestorm808]

That's not much to work with regarding our RF standards.

Reality-Fiction Transcendence

It is not uncommon in fiction for characters to view lesser realities as if they were fiction, in much the same way as a real world human would view fiction. Frequently that comes in the form of almighty author characters which can freely rewrite those lesser realities. The other way around...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Tiktime]

I'm not sure we can use League of Justice since its an Elseworlds story.

Elseworld is just as much a part of the DC multiverse only an alternate reality. Kindom Come is also Elseworld(But his connection was shown to the main universe ). I don't see any problem with using this to scale for the entire multiverse

Additionally, the writer seems to have limited contribution to the overall cosmology.

Well, that shouldn't say anything at all as long as it doesn't contradict cosmology.

 

[Tiktime]

Do we have justifications that these layers of dreams are more superior than the last?

Dreams in general have a habit of being fictional by default, but in DC cosmology dreams are more real than reality.(Not just because of the instructions but because of belonging to the Sphere of the Gods, the same New Gods see mortal realities as bubbles).

 

[Firestorm808]

Elseworld is just as much a part of the DC multiverse only an alternate reality. Kindom Come is also Elseworld(But his connection was shown to the main universe ). I don't see any problem with using this to scale for the entire multiverse

Well, that shouldn't say anything at all as long as it doesn't contradict cosmology.

In any case, do we have any context or examples of the dimensions in this example being superior to the other.

 

[Firestorm808]

Dreams in general have a habit of being fictional by default, but in DC cosmology dreams are more real than reality.(Not just because of the instructions but because of belonging to the Sphere of the Gods, the same New Gods see mortal realities as bubbles).

I'm asking whether one dream is superior to another dream and how.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

I disagree with the proposals.

In a multiverse, there are universes with any number of spatial dimensions (From League of Justice#2)

Sounds like a huge NLF to extrapolate this as meaning individual universes can be tiered at high 1-B or low 1-A. From a semantic lens, "any" does not entail "all." [Any] implies a selection from a larger set, while [all] encompasses the whole set without exception. Even then, there's nothing saying any, or even all, would imply infinite dimensions as opposed to any/all which have been shown. Not to mention, you'd have to prove these spatial dimensions hold qualitative superiority or otherwise meet tiering standards.

There are dreams that are more real than reality,and they are infinitely recursive. (The Sandman#15) And thus Morpheus must have 1-A. He can also drive a person into an infinite layers Dream.(The Sandman#1)

"Infinite layers" has no inherent implications unless we have reason to believe each layer is unreachable or [beyond] infinitely transcendent to lower layers. At best, as someone else had said, this seems to be describing an endless loop where dreams encompass dreams.

You seem to be suggesting possible R>F to prove such a gap between "layers," but I disagree with your interpretation. "More real than reality" seems like flowery language to describe an especially immersive kind of 'lucid dream.'

Dreams in general have a habit of being fictional by default,

Sagan standard

but in DC cosmology dreams are more real than reality.(Not just because of the instructions but because of belonging to the Sphere of the Gods, the same New Gods see mortal realities as bubbles).

I feel like this is a non sequitor? Are you saying these endless dream layers have R>F because they exist in the sphere of gods, thus the "reality" the dreams are more real than is creation/the multiverse? From what I got in reading your proposals, it seemed like the whole construct existed in the sphere of gods. Now, it seems like you're suggesting that the "floor" of this construct ("reality") is creation, and the hierarchy extends through the multiverse and past the god sphere. Regardless, if visually trivializing something was enough to qualify for a beyond infinite gap in and of itself, Zeno's palace in DBS would have long since been upgraded to low 1-C.

 

[Robo432343]

I'm asking whether one dream is superior to another dream and how.

because each dream is more real than the other one
but i feel that is way too vague and needs more context

 

[Tiktime]

In any case, do we have any context or examples of the dimensions in this example being superior to the other.

Maybe I don't understand something, but here the infinite-dimensional beyonder was accepted without proof of a qualitative difference between the dimensions. But there is this.

I'm asking whether one dream is superior to another dream and how.

Um... Well, a dream is an illusion created by the human brain, and it's not real, it's a fiction (In this case it's the other way round) and a dream within a dream should logically be like that, no?

 

[Tiktime]

Sounds like a huge NLF to extrapolate this as meaning individual universes can be tiered at high 1-B or low 1-A. From a semantic lens, "any" does not entail "all." [Any] implies a selection from a larger set, while [all] encompasses the whole set without exception. Even then, there's nothing saying any, or even all, would imply infinite dimensions as opposed to any/all which have been shown. Not to mention, you'd have to prove these spatial dimensions hold qualitative superiority or otherwise meet tiering standards.

You're right about the definition of the word "any." It implies any choice from a set. In this case the set is numbers, and how many numbers do we have? Right, infinity/above infinity, aleph zero, aleph one, and so on.

"Infinite layers" has no inherent implications unless we have reason to believe each layer is unreachable or [beyond] infinitely transcendent to lower layers. At best, as someone else had said, this seems to be describing an endless loop where dreams encompass dreams.

You seem to be suggesting possible R>F to prove such a gap between "layers," but I disagree with your interpretation. "More real than reality" seems like flowery language to describe an especially immersive kind of 'lucid dream.'

As I said above, a dream is an illusion(in this case vice versa) and a dream for a dream is an illusion for a dream(in this case vice versa)

 

[Robo432343]

Maybe I don't understand something, but here the infinite-dimensional beyonder was accepted without proof of a qualitative difference between the dimensions.

its extremely outdated

But there is this.

yes?? This is 5D

 

[Brogeefrong]

You're right about the definition of the word "any." It implies any choice from a set. In this case the set is numbers, and how many numbers do we have? Right, infinity/above infinity, aleph zero, aleph one, and so on.

Infinity isnt a number, the any part would mean any quantifiable number, which would be enough for countless 1-B, if proven qualitifully superior

 

[Deagonx]

It doesn't really matter how we evaluate the scan, as there's not a good reason to scale any of the cosmologies to it.

 

[Tiktime]

It doesn't really matter how we evaluate the scan, as there's not a good reason to scale any of the cosmologies to it.

What does good reasons mean?

 

[Deagonx]

What does good reasons mean?

For a story to scale to a specific cosmology, it needs to either be written by one of the main authors of that cosmology or have a clear and direct connection to it beyond simply "is also a DC comic."

 

[Hypertornado099]

For a story to scale to a specific cosmology, it needs to either be written by one of the main authors of that cosmology or have a clear and direct connection to it beyond simply "is also a DC comic."

Is that a policy or something that has been accepted somewhere?

 

[Deagonx]

Is that a policy or something that has been accepted somewhere?

Yes, that was part of our DC Comics Cosmology revision.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Yes, that was part of our DC Comics Cosmology revision.

Could you show me?

 

[Deagonx]

Could you show me?

DC Comics Cosmology

This page is dedicated to outlining the distinctions between DC Comics's different cosmologies. To summarize, the DC Universe has three dominant cosmologies characterized primarily (but not exclusively) by their authors: Grant Morrison, Scott Snyder, James Tynion IV, and Joshua Williamson; J.M...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Should we close this thread?

 

[Tiktime]

For a story to scale to a specific cosmology, it needs to either be written by one of the main authors of that cosmology or have a clear and direct connection to it beyond simply "is also a DC comic."

Kind of unfair to DC. Since in other universes, which also have many authors, there is no such rule, and in the same Marvel(In a track that used literally unrelated stories. )

 

[Tiktime]

DC Comics Cosmology

This page is dedicated to outlining the distinctions between DC Comics's different cosmologies. To summarize, the DC Universe has three dominant cosmologies characterized primarily (but not exclusively) by their authors: Grant Morrison, Scott Snyder, James Tynion IV, and Joshua Williamson; J.M...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I didn't find that in there, can you give a quote? And why isn't that Marvel and DC's scaling rules?

 

[Tiktime]

Should we close this thread?

Nah, I don't see why we should ignore the literal explicit mention of dimensions

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Kind of unfair to DC. Since in other universes, which also have many authors, there is no such rule, and in the same Marvel(In a track that used literally unrelated stories. )

The sheer level of intricacy in DC and Marvel is unparalleled, and we just haven't gotten to Marvel yet.

Nah, I don't see why we should ignore the literal explicit mention of dimensions

I wasn't asking you, and the "literal explicit mention of dimensions" is nowhere near enough for such an upgrade.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

It seems this thread has been rejected. It's better off closed now.