Who needs Super Saiyans when could could have… BADASS PONIES?! (0/7/0)

[Coolboy6]

Vegeta vs Tempest Shadow

Both 4-B, Buu Saga ssj2 Vegeta is being
used, speed is equalized.
Badass Saiyan: 7

Badass Horse:

Vegeta scales above 2.1 kilofoe according to the stat explanation blog

Tempest is >= 4.08 kilofoe

 

[Imaginym]

Bumping for interest.

 

[Coolboy6]

Bump

 

[Thebestsilver]

Bump FRA (I also want to listen arguments)

 

[Imaginym]

Anyone got a refresher on Tempest Shadow's behaviour?

 

[Coolboy6]

Anyone got a refresher on Tempest Shadow's behaviour?

She either uses horn blasts that seemingly explode on contact, if close, she uses h2h, and she also could use obsidian orbs to petrify the opponent, but I feel like Vegeta could dodge that.

 

[Coolboy6]

Bump

 

[sanicspood]

doesnt tempest just petrify?

 

[Coolboy6]

doesnt tempest just petrify?

She could, but Vegeta could also dodge. That ability is somewhat similar to Dabura’s stone spit.

 

[Coolboy6]

Bump

 

[Coolboy6]

Bump

 

[Coolboy6]

Bump

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

what are Vegeta's advantages?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

The horse has a small AP advantage, LS advantage and can apparently petrify.
Vegeta has the stamina advantage, probably a massive skill advantage and outranges to hell. So vegeta can probably just dodge the petrification stuff with his variety of senses and predictions as well as skill and range so I think he takes this, he also has stuff like after images, he can move fte and his most powerful ki blasts boost his AP by tons.

 

[Coolboy6]

what are Vegeta's advantages?

Skill, flight, range, stamina.

 

[Coolboy6]

The horse has a small AP advantage, LS advantage and can apparently petrify.
Vegeta has the stamina advantage, probably a massive skill advantage and outranges to hell. So vegeta can probably just dodge the petrification stuff with his variety of senses and predictions as well as skill and range so I think he takes this, he also has stuff like after images, he can move fte and his most powerful ki blasts boost his AP by tons.

vote counted

 

[DaimaouAshura]

Unless her tk turns out to be more broken than the profile shows, I guess Vegeta just outskills to hell. Unless he gets cocky and jobs to petrifying spit which could happen if this were a fight happening in db. Gotta give the dude benefit of doubt without plot tho, Vegeta fra.

 

[frissen]

vegeta fra

 

[TauanVictor]

Vegeta FRA.

 

[sanicspood]

Vegeta FRA

 

[sanicspood]

bump

 

[Sonicflare9]

vegeta fra

 

[Popted2]

Vegeta FRA

 

[sanicspood]

Grace

 

[Lightbuster30]

Vegeta dodges a couple times, then Tempest gets annoyed, TKs him, and smacks him with a bomb. She's not dumb enough to waste energy or bombs on a target that'll keep dodging, she only has a maximum of four bombs at once (The most she's shown to have at once). She's not going to blindly waste them hoping they'll hit once she runs low. Tempest can also just forcefield and let him waste energy on that.

Some may question the viability of her range due to her profile, but her profile is hilariously inaccurate in that regard. It claims her range is several meters without a calculation, and ignores the way she aided in defending the Mane 6 with her magic from far away, as well as the fact that less skilled characters consistently show much farther magic range.

Another notable thing here is the people she scales to. Celestia's magic is so powerful that a device embued with a fraction of her power can replicate her feat. I don't know by how much Vegeta can increase his power, but considering Tempest scales to people who are already borderline twice his power, adding the above info to the mix just makes the gap that much bigger.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Vegeta dodges a couple times, then Tempest gets annoyed, TKs him, and smacks him with a bomb. She's not dumb enough to waste energy or bombs on a target that'll keep dodging, she only has a maximum of four bombs at once (The most she's shown to have at once). She's not going to blindly waste them hoping they'll hit once she runs low. Tempest can also just forcefield and let him waste energy on that.

Some may question the viability of her range due to her profile, but her profile is hilariously inaccurate in that regard. It claims her range is several meters without a calculation, and ignores the way she aided in defending the Mane 6 with her magic from very far away, as well as the fact that less skilled characters consistently show much farther magic range.

Another notable thing here is the people she scales to. Celestia's magic is so powerful that a device embued with a fraction of her power can replicate her feat. I don't know by how much Vegeta can increase his power, but considering Tempest scales to people who are already borderline twice his power, adding the above info to the mix just makes the gap that much bigger.

Her telekinesis doesn't even look combat applicable, has she ever even used it in combat?
Can't vegeta just blow up her petrification orbs?
Vegeta isn't gonna get tired from a forcefield.
I don't even know what I'm supposed to look at in that video. But I can tell it's not enough to do anything since vegeta still hilariously outranges.
How much does she scale above her value? If vegeta can't damage her or gets one shot then it's a stomp.

 

[Lightbuster30]

All telekinesis is applicable in combat. It's literally just wrapping an object in your magic and moving it. Works on inanimate objects and living beings. It's been used during and to stop combat.

Can't vegeta just blow up her petrification orbs?

Depends on how closely he decides to blow it up. Just being in range of the gas will result in pertification. The orb was also kicked hard enough that it smashed through a fellow 4-B's shield (Every 4-B scales to Celestia). So, if Vegeta tries blasting it, it's entirely possible the orb will just blow through it. It has the ap to do so.

Vegeta isn't gonna get tired from a forcefield.

I didn't say he would, I'm just saying it helps her defend against him.

I don't even know what I'm supposed to look at in that video.

The top of the hill in the background with shadows coming onto it. That's Tempest shadow along with many other Unicorns combining their magic to create a forcefield strong enough to defend against 3 4-Bs. They're several dozens to possibly hundreds of meters away.

But I can tell it's not enough to do anything since vegeta still hilariously outranges.

The 4-Bs consistently display a comparable range to Celestia. Not that her telekinesis really needs to outrange him anyways.

How much does she scale above her value? If vegeta can't damage her or gets one shot then it's a stomp.

It is unquantifiable. We don't know how little magic Celestia put into the device, just a small amount according to her.

 

[Peppersalt43]

All telekinesis is applicable in combat. It's literally just wrapping an object in your magic and moving it. Works on inanimate objects and living beings. It's been used during and to stop combat.

Wait, what? Isn't her entire gimmick is that because her horn is broken, she's unable to perform spells more complex than the attack spell?

 

[Lightbuster30]

Wait, what? Isn't her entire gimmick is that because her horn is broken, she's unable to perform spells more complex than the attack spell?

Nope. Both the cartoon and supplementary material shows she can at least do telekinesis and forcefields. Just because she can do forcefields or telekinesis, it doesn't mean she can do something more advanced like transfiguration or teleportation. Lasers, telekinesis, and forcefields, are pretty basic Unicorn abilities. It's hardly anything advanced.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

All telekinesis is applicable in combat. It's literally just wrapping an object in your magic and moving it. Works on inanimate objects and living beings. It's been used during and to stop combat.

Depends on how closely he decides to blow it up. Just being in range of the gas will result in pertification. The orb was also kicked hard enough that it smashed through a fellow 4-B's shield (Every 4-B scales to Celestia). So, if Vegeta tries blasting it, it's entirely possible the orb will just blow through it. It has the ap to do so.

I didn't say he would, I'm just saying it helps her defend against him.

The top of the hill in the background with shadows coming onto it. That's Tempest shadow along with many other Unicorns combining their magic to create a forcefield strong enough to defend against 3 4-Bs. They're several dozens to possibly hundreds of meters away.

The 4-Bs consistently display a comparable range to Celestia. Not that her telekinesis really needs to outrange him anyways.

It is unquantifiable. We don't know how little magic Celestia put into the device, just a small amount according to her.

Does she ever actually use telekinesis in her fights? Also if she does, can vegeta avoid it by moving faster than she can see?
It's only >2x difference so I doubt it.
Vegeta still severely outranges hundreds of meters.
How would she have interstellar range if her profile says otherwise? and that guy brought up a good point about the horn, why would that range apply to this horse?
Okay so > 4 kilofoe, it's fair.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Does she ever actually use telekinesis in her fights? Also if she does, can vegeta avoid it by moving faster than she can see?

Not sure, we've never seen her in an extended fight. Others have done it though.

It's only >2x difference so I doubt it.

All I'm saying is Vegeta's not destroying it easily, and it has a higher chance of overpowering than being overpowered.

Vegeta still severely outranges hundreds of meters.

Unless he flies clear to the moon, or thousands of kilometers away, superior range isn't saving him should she decide to grab him.

How would she have interstellar range if her profile says otherwise?

Because the profile is wrong and in need of revising? Look, I really don't care what the profile says, if she does something and the profile says she can't do it, then the profile is objectively wrong. If the profile needs revising then this match should be put on hold until otherwise. There's no point doing a match when one of the profiles isn't up to date.

and that guy brought up a good point about the horn,

Right, and I also pointed out why his point is irrelevant. I don't care whatever her "gimmick" is if canon and supplementary material goes against it. Feats > Dumb character gimmicks, Feats show forcefields and telekinesis alongside her lasers. She's shown she can do basic unicorn magic, and nothing else. Suffice to say, I really don't care about the gimmick.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Not sure, we've never seen her in an extended fight. Others have done it though.

All I'm saying is Vegeta's not destroying it easily, and it has a higher chance of overpowering than being overpowered.

Unless he flies clear to the moon, or thousands of kilometers away, superior range isn't saving him should she decide to grab him.

Because the profile is wrong and in need of revising? Look, I really don't care what the profile says, if she does something and the profile says she can't do it, then the profile is objectively wrong. If the profile needs revising then this match should be put on hold until otherwise. There's no point doing a match when one of the profiles isn't up to date.

Right, and I also pointed out why his point is irrelevant. I don't care whatever her "gimmick" is if canon and supplementary material goes against it. Feats > Dumb character gimmicks, Feats show forcefields and telekinesis alongside her lasers. She's shown she can do basic unicorn magic, and nothing else. Suffice to say, I really don't care about the gimmick.

Right so at best it's out of character.
I was talking about the guys point applying to her range, if her gimmick is she can't do advanced magic then how do we know if she has interstellar range if she never shows it?
Also you didn't answer, can she still trap him in TK if he so fast she can't see him? Vegeta and other dragon ball characters can vanish from sight of other characters of comparable speed in short bursts. He can fo that + prediction to avoid it, similar to what Goku did vs moro.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Right so at best it's out of character.

No, sitting on her ass watching him dance around her limited, once-per-use weaponry is ooc. She has exactly two attacks she can use to win. OOC would be using her telekinesis to yeet him into the Sun. They'll go for something more advanced if pressed.

I was talking about the guys point applying to her range, if her gimmick is she can't do advanced magic then how do we know if she has interstellar range if she never shows it?

Because telekinetic, beam, and general magic range consistently increases with your AP in MLP. Range in MLP has never had anything to do with skill. Hell, Rarity has no more skill than the average pony and she can telekinetically manipulate whole storms. All you have to do to improve your telekinesis is simply make your magic stronger.

Also you didn't answer, can she still trap him in TK if he so fast she can't see him? Vegeta and other dragon ball characters can vanish from sight of other characters of comparable speed in short bursts. He can fo that + prediction to avoid it, similar to what Goku did vs moro.

Starlight can perceive her own movement when using magic to increase her movement speed, and Rainbow Dash can perceive her own speed and maneuver out of the way feet from the ground despite her speed increasing multiple times over when going Sonic Rainboom at that exact same moment.

I'm fairly confident she can deal with a blitz-worthy speed boost given they can deal with their own speed massively increasing just fine. It helps that blitzing is an unquantifiable boost and varies from verse to verse much like one-shotting.

From how far can Vegeta blitz comparable speed characters anyways? A character who can blitz at 12 meters won't be blitzing at 300.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

No, sitting on her ass watching him dance around her limited, once-per-use weaponry is ooc. She has exactly two attacks she can use to win. OOC would be using her telekinesis to yeet him into the Sun. They'll go for something more advanced if pressed.

Because telekinetic, beam, and general magic range consistently increases with your AP in MLP. Range in MLP has never had anything to do with skill. Hell, Rarity has no more skill than the average pony and she can telekinetically manipulate whole storms. All you have to do to improve your telekinesis is simply make your magic stronger.

Starlight can perceive her own movement when using magic to increase her movement speed, and Rainbow Dash can perceive her own speed and maneuver out of the way feet from the ground despite her speed increasing multiple times over when going Sonic Rainboom at that exact same moment.

I'm fairly confident she can deal with a blitz-worthy speed boost given they can deal with their own speed massively increasing just fine. It helps that blitzing is an unquantifiable boost and varies from verse to verse much like one-shotting.

From how far can Vegeta blitz comparable speed characters anyways? A character who can blitz at 12 meters won't be blitzing at 300.

Alright fine, she can use telekinesis but make sure to update the profile.
Isn't that just a speed amp? There reaction speed is increasing with it, unless it's specifically shown not to be the case.
In vegeta's case, he's superior to Goku who can vanish from tien's sight as well as roshi and krillin's who are all comparable in speed as well as all the spectators but they aren't important. As for distance, I'm pretty sure it's tens of meters at least, fighters can snap vanish from ki blasts thrown by opponents from far away. For example, Goku moved faster than freeza can glare, despite Goku being even slower than him. That's a pretty huge blitz. In fact, it's actually at least hundreds of meters. Goku dodged a nuke from freeza (who's faster) at point blank by dodging it the moment it exploded and travelled that ridiculous distance all the way to piccolo without freeza seeing him which honestly looks like kilometers. So vegeta who outskills Goku here can easily replicate this kind of stuff.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Isn't that just a speed amp? There reaction speed is increasing with it, unless it's specifically shown not to be the case.

Accelero only increases movement speed to my recollection. It's never really shown it increases reactions. In Rainbow Dash's case, it's not even a specific speed amp. I mean, it is, but not in the sense of a technique or magic spell increasing your movement. She just jumps from her average high speed to an even higher one. Basically, the Sonic Rainboom is pure travel speed.

For example, Goku moved faster than freeza can glare, despite Goku being even slower than him. That's a pretty huge blitz. In fact, it's actually at least hundreds of meters.

Angsizing from the very first panel looks like it would land me anywhere from several meters to a few dozen. Wasn't Freeza also holding back to a degree? If he was holding back, I don't know how much faster his ki blast was than Goku in that instant.

Goku dodged a nuke from freeza (who's faster) at point blank by dodging it the moment it exploded and travelled that ridiculous distance all the way to piccolo without freeza seeing him which honestly looks like kilometers. So vegeta who outskills Goku here can easily replicate this kind of stuff.

It was a giant explosion, and if it were big enough to be seen from Kilometers, Freeza simply could have not seen him move due the explosion obstructing his line of sight, while Goku went as fast as possible.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Accelero only increases movement speed to my recollection. It's never really shown it increases reactions. In Rainbow Dash's case, it's not even a specific speed amp. I mean, it is, but not in the sense of a technique or magic spell increasing your movement. She just jumps from her average high speed to an even higher one. Basically, the Sonic Rainboom is pure travel speed.

Angsizing from the very first panel looks like it would land me anywhere from several meters to a few dozen. Wasn't Freeza also holding back to a degree? If he was holding back, I don't know how much faster his ki blast was than Goku in that instant.

It was a giant explosion, and if it were big enough to be seen from Kilometers, Freeza simply could have not seen him move due the explosion obstructing his line of sight, while Goku went as fast as possible.

Well I am not a supporter so I can't confirm. But if the spell increases her travel speed only and leaves her combat speed as is then it would count as a reaction feat.
It looks at least 10m, but the explosion looks way larger and Goku moved all that distance faster than freeza saw. Freeza was homding back so as to not blitz stomp Goku but his stats were still superior to the point Goku was losing.
That smoke happened after the explosion, it was all light when it exploded, and freeza was following his movements when it was happening. That explosion scales to freeza's combat speed and Goku basically blitzed it as well as the others from kilometers away. Piccolo only realized what happened when Goku got closer since he'd already seen him do it before.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Hmm, Goku looks like some of his clothes were torn after the explosion. They didn't look like it before the explosion. It's possible he still got hit by the explosion, so if he still got hit, that means he wouldn't have to blitz the explosion, just travel at a rate equal to it's speed.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Hmm, Goku looks like some of his clothes were torn after the explosion. They didn't look like it before the explosion. It's possible he still got hit by the explosion, so if he still got hit, that means he wouldn't have to blitz the explosion, just travel at a rate equal to it's speed.

He was hit by the initial ki blast that paralyzed him, the entire point of the scene was to show that he DIDN'T get hit by the explosion, Goku himself is practically unharmed from an attack that was stronger than him. The statements blatantly show that he dodged it and he did it while freeza and the others couldn't follow his movements. Anyway Majin vegeta greatly outskills Goku who dodges hundreds of meters to kilometer AoE and blitz people at that distance (mind you he's blitzing people who can react to and percieve blitzing movements) so I think it's safe to say he will be able to avoid telekinesis with that as well as prediction and reactive pl which makes him faster and stronger as he fights.

 

[Lightbuster30]

He was hit by the initial ki blast that paralyzed him, the entire point of the scene was to show that he DIDN'T get hit by the explosion,

I only brought it up because he didn't look battle-worn (torn clothes for instance) when I saw him inside the paralyzing ki blast. If he didn't get hit, then fine.

In any case, a thought just came to me. Vegeta can't speed amp and blitz. His maximum is >>>>432-1080c, while Tempest scales above 20k c. If he speed amped and started blitzing, then he'd be blitzing Tempest with speeds she normally wouldn't have an issue with, and that goes against speed equal rules as far as I've read. I don't know if they're getting any higher in a crt or if I interpreted the rule wrong, but it's all based on what I am currently viewing.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I only brought it up because he didn't look battle-worn (torn clothes for instance) when I saw him inside the paralyzing ki blast. If he didn't get hit, then fine.

In any case, a thought just came to me. Vegeta can't speed amp and blitz. His maximum is >>>>432-1080c, while Tempest scales above 20k c. If he speed amped and started blitzing, then he'd be blitzing Tempest with speeds she normally wouldn't have an issue with, and that goes against speed equal rules as far as I've read. I don't know if they're getting any higher in a crt or if I interpreted the rule wrong, but it's all based on what I am currently viewing.

Well it's strange because it's not actually a speed amp for vegeta, they just kind of able to move that fast and react to these kinds of movements. also for it to be invalid, a major part in one character winning must be their speed, but vegeta has many other advantages.
But I can see what you mean, so I'll just see what happens.
Dammit if only db characters finally get their true speeds.