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1-A World of Darkness
- Thread starter Udlmaster
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Are we ignoring that it took time and effort for the angels to create physical three-dimensional matter? How are they supposed to be these transcendent infinity 1-A beings then?
Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,868
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- Thread starter
- #203
1. Wasn't 3-D matter, it was it's very concept.Matthew Schroeder said:
2. Time had yet to exist, the framing of time is, as you would say, metaphorical.
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1. No, it wasn't the concept of matter. All the scan says is that the concept of matter could finally be expressed. It already existed as a concept before.
2. You know what I meant, Udl.
2. You know what I meant, Udl.
Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,868
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- Thread starter
- #205
1. No, that was the concept of existence, not Matter, to quote :
"For an eternity, they mined substance from the abyss, bending and molding this total absence into matter -- or rather, the notion of matter, the very idea fo substance and solidity."
2. No, I don't, because it doesn't matter the "time" because all this happened instantly, as time didn't exist, so frames of time like eternity is both instantious and infinite.
"For an eternity, they mined substance from the abyss, bending and molding this total absence into matter -- or rather, the notion of matter, the very idea fo substance and solidity."
2. No, I don't, because it doesn't matter the "time" because all this happened instantly, as time didn't exist, so frames of time like eternity is both instantious and infinite.
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I have to say that although threads shouldn't be resolved with popularity votes, they should also not be resolved with "X is staff, Y is not", since that's taking a fallacy and replacing it with an even more egregious one. No one here should act like they hold the truth. This is directed at both sides.
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A verse can say X and Y things are whatever it wants, and can use any number of fancy words to adress them BUT if said terms fail to have a corresponding cosmology that is expansive enough to back them up and ALSO fails to demonstrate them in a way that fits the recquirements that this wiki has stablished for 1-A, they don't count.
Simple as that.
Otherwise literally every character above tier 2 might start getting treated as Tier 1 since they're usually full of "Beyond dimensions/time and space/existence/causality" statements or things of the like and so on.
These being my two cents on the matter and because from what I've seen from the scans brought up so far they honestly don't qualify to my eyes, either, I definitely agree far more with Kep's, Ultima's and Matthew's views on this.
Simple as that.
Otherwise literally every character above tier 2 might start getting treated as Tier 1 since they're usually full of "Beyond dimensions/time and space/existence/causality" statements or things of the like and so on.
These being my two cents on the matter and because from what I've seen from the scans brought up so far they honestly don't qualify to my eyes, either, I definitely agree far more with Kep's, Ultima's and Matthew's views on this.
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Also I'm changing my standing from against this to neutral since I haven't read this thread in ages and haven't seen any of the new scans yet,.
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Fate is correct, we can't take quotes of "Beyond time / space / dimension" to always mean 1-A as even beings who are Low 2-C get those.
Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,868
- 2,064
- Thread starter
- #210
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYZBjJuD--kMatthew Schroeder said:
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Also, do you guys remember feats?You know, the things which back up the statements themselves and prove that things are legitimate. Those were nice.
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Except for the fact that the feat is being interpreted one way or another, and the interpretation is what matters when things aren't super clear.
And as I agree with Matt and Ultima as of right now regarding no creation of the concept of dimensionality, but rather literal dimensions in a physical sense.
Though considering Assalt's agreement with the way the platonic ideas are being described, I'd love more of his input when he has the time.
And as I agree with Matt and Ultima as of right now regarding no creation of the concept of dimensionality, but rather literal dimensions in a physical sense.
Though considering Assalt's agreement with the way the platonic ideas are being described, I'd love more of his input when he has the time.
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I've added Kep to the Discord convo. We'll probably reach a conclusion soon.
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That's actually pretty good to know.
Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,868
- 2,064
- Thread starter
- #216
I do find that fairly shady, if you don't mind me saying.
Since it's basically the main opposition vs someone who's only agreeing with the statements shown, and not the proposer.
I can already guess the out come being Assalt will end up agreeing with Matthew because there's nothing to throw out his lies.
Since it's basically the main opposition vs someone who's only agreeing with the statements shown, and not the proposer.
I can already guess the out come being Assalt will end up agreeing with Matthew because there's nothing to throw out his lies.
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I'm there to mediate and I have no bias against WoV's tiering.
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Yeah but I'm neutral.
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We are still placing the arguments, some people haven't even said their piece yet.
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Uld, again with "lies".
Have you no literal concept of accepting people may just not agree with you? They think they are as right about their opinions as you. If the majority agrees and 1-A becomes a thing, everyone that still disagrees will shut up unless contradicting information comes up or the evidence is given another look, but can you do the same thing if it's disagreed?
This has happened before, it literally happened when Kep did his God of War revisions and took his discussions with Matthew to Discord to not clutter the thread needlessly. Stop making it sound like a Flat Earth conspiracy theory where everyone is against you.
Have you no literal concept of accepting people may just not agree with you? They think they are as right about their opinions as you. If the majority agrees and 1-A becomes a thing, everyone that still disagrees will shut up unless contradicting information comes up or the evidence is given another look, but can you do the same thing if it's disagreed?
This has happened before, it literally happened when Kep did his God of War revisions and took his discussions with Matthew to Discord to not clutter the thread needlessly. Stop making it sound like a Flat Earth conspiracy theory where everyone is against you.
Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,868
- 2,064
- Thread starter
- #223
>Have you no literal concept of accepting people may just not agree with you?
Yes, I do, I just don't accept lies, most of all when they're flat out lies.
Have you no "literal" concept of accepting that people can lie?
>This has happened before, it literally happened when Kep did his God of War revisions and took his discussions with Matthew to Discord to not clutter the thread needlessly. Stop making it sound like a Flat Earth conspiracy theory where everyone is against you.
Why are you strawmanning me? I'm saying it's shady. Unlike the God of War revisions, Kep was the proposer and Matthew was the opposition, in this situation, that is not the case, Matthew is debating a supporter, not a proposer. That's why it's shady, because Assalt doesn't have any scans, any understanding of the verse, nothing, they just agreed and that was it.
So, yes, it is absolutely shady that out of everyone, Matthew would pluck the only staff member that agreed with us.
Yes, I do, I just don't accept lies, most of all when they're flat out lies.
Have you no "literal" concept of accepting that people can lie?
>This has happened before, it literally happened when Kep did his God of War revisions and took his discussions with Matthew to Discord to not clutter the thread needlessly. Stop making it sound like a Flat Earth conspiracy theory where everyone is against you.
Why are you strawmanning me? I'm saying it's shady. Unlike the God of War revisions, Kep was the proposer and Matthew was the opposition, in this situation, that is not the case, Matthew is debating a supporter, not a proposer. That's why it's shady, because Assalt doesn't have any scans, any understanding of the verse, nothing, they just agreed and that was it.
So, yes, it is absolutely shady that out of everyone, Matthew would pluck the only staff member that agreed with us.
Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,868
- 2,064
- Thread starter
- #225
Why is me pointing out duplicidous behavour "levelling unwarrented accusations against the staff"
The debate is important so it should be in public, most of all because that is what the thread is for, to have the debates set in a public setting.
Otherwise, what is the point of having threads on here?
The debate is important so it should be in public, most of all because that is what the thread is for, to have the debates set in a public setting.
Otherwise, what is the point of having threads on here?
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There is nothing shady about it and nobody is spreading lies. No need to paint one single person as the villain here.
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I'll ask Assalt to add Udl as a friend on Discord. He's currently gone out for a few minutes in order to drive.
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Yes, let's resort to the idea that lies are what's wrong and not people disagreeing. If your points are on corrent and your evidence backs it up, what would it even care?
I'm no strawmaning the fact that you sound like a conspirationalist where if you can't see what's happening, there's some concocted plot being brewed against your person. And it's something that you somehow seem to have the persistent need to bring up.
Did you know if Assalt asked for the conversation instead? Looking at the million scans posted here? Putting heavy doubts under the credibility of Kep and Assalt just because they are talking with someone that disagrees with the upgrade? If he changes his mind for specific reasons, he specifies what reasons and you clear any doubts. That's it, that simple.
Making any endeavor like an CRT this exhausting because of conjeture like that never helps anybody, you primarly.
I'm no strawmaning the fact that you sound like a conspirationalist where if you can't see what's happening, there's some concocted plot being brewed against your person. And it's something that you somehow seem to have the persistent need to bring up.
Did you know if Assalt asked for the conversation instead? Looking at the million scans posted here? Putting heavy doubts under the credibility of Kep and Assalt just because they are talking with someone that disagrees with the upgrade? If he changes his mind for specific reasons, he specifies what reasons and you clear any doubts. That's it, that simple.
Making any endeavor like an CRT this exhausting because of conjeture like that never helps anybody, you primarly.
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Currently both Assaltwaffle and Kepekley are MIA since they are busy in real life. As the discussion is currently far more general than purely World of Darkness related, and this thread as is isn't going anywhere, I vouch for us closing it, at least for now. In the case that it goes back to being relevan to talk in the future, it can be reopened.
What say all?
What say all?
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A temporary close I agree with. That way Matt, Kepe, Assalt and Uld can deal with things off site and perhaps keep the shitstorms off site as this thread is full of them.
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Full agreement on temporary close. I do want this to reach an actual resolution.
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I'll do it, then.
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