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Chariot190

Chariot190

VS Battles Calculation Group Bronze Supporter
Day 132 of working on MGS
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  • Tusk ACT 4 can move during King Crimson's time erase? He can move during Diego's time stop because some gravity shit, but time erase does not possess this weakness, so could it?

    And by the way, happy 2021!
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    Probably not.
    Act 4 could move in time stop due to it being gravity itself basically, and gravity and time have a direct correlation in jojo as well as reality.
    While King Crimson is the complete absence of time and cause and effect.
    The reason why Act 4 could move in time stop quite literally doesn't exist in King Crimson's skip.

    You too mate.
    The_originator_of_ideas
    Hello, sorry to bother you. I wanted to ask you a question on GER. I saw in Giorno's ap that he is able to ignore durability with return to zero. How would that work? Like would he be able to damage someone with a higher durability than building+ level? Like for example Negating goku's durability and being able to damage him? Please help in clearing my confusion away. Thanks again.
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    Not exactly. RTZ doesn't have any inherent offensive capability.
    When the profile says "can ignore durability with RTZ"
    It's basically saying "having a higher durability won't stop RTZ from effecting you unless you're acasual or something".

    Basically, it can't HURT someone, but having high durability also won't stop it from setting you back to zero or doing some funky hax on you.
    In the case of Goku, no, if he gets hit by RTZ he isn't going to drop dead or anything, but on the opposite end of things he's still not going to be able to take action as he lacks the proper resistances.
    The only time RTZ is useful in regards to offense is if GER himself can harm the opponent in some way, in which RTZ makes it drastically worse, see the death loop for example.

    In response to "lowering durability", he can, but only to a previous state, using Goku as an example, if Goku transformed or powered up to raise his stats, RTZ can revert him back to before he did that, putting him back to his base durability, but it can't do something like make Goku's durability human level unless it was at that level previously within that situation.
    The_originator_of_ideas
    The_originator_of_ideas
    Thanks so much! This clears things up a lot for me.
    StrymULTRA
    Yo, listen up, I'm sorry for the discussion before, it happened irl stuff to me recently and I was pretty pissed off, and hthe GER downgrade was pretty much the last thing I wanted to see. I apologize again.
    M3X_2.0
    Hello. I think you remember the JoJo speed downgrade from some months ago. As you said, not all Stands should scale to MFTL from Chariot/Star Platinum, so I want to discuss some stuff with you before I recalc some feats and post the thread with the scaling.

    • Part 2 characters (Post training Joseph, Caesar, Kars, Wammu, ACDC, Lisa Lisa) being = or > Part 3 Stands. Pillarman are > any vampire, that's also includes DIO.
    • Part 2 Joseph scaling above Part 3 Joseph in any aspect.
    • The use of "likely" and "possibly" for some Stands that are not comparable to SP/Chariot but can keep up with them at least a bit, like Kaky's stand, Magician's Red, some of the Stands of Part 4 like Crazy D, RHCP
    • Part 5 scaling seems to be fine, some Stands like GE, Sticky Fingers and KC should be MFTL as they are
    • I don't have any idea of how to scale Part 6
    • The World from SBR should be equal to The World from SC
    • JoJolion doesn't have any relation with the other parts afaik, only with SBR
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    I'm aware of it, I plan on bumping it again after Im out of the hospital and I have the calcs redone, which Ive been trying to redo on my own time. I think I have the Kars feat done in a way that doesn't need to rely on perspective, but just in case I have a few ends for it as well.

    If you have discord that may be a better place to discuss.
    Chariot190#0916 add me if you can.
    M3X_2.0
    M3X_2.0
    I've sent a request.
    StrymULTRA
    Hello, I seriously need help to prove 5D beyond here.
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    Against who exactly? Actually it doesn't matter, Beyond being 5D is blatant as ****, that's on them really if they can't take a hint, though, why's that matter? Kars doesn't have Beyond so why's Beyond being talked about in a Kars thread?
    Mind giving me a quick rundown so I can tell what's going on exactly?
    StrymULTRA
    StrymULTRA
    Kars being able to understand 5D stuff, that's the question
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    Define "Understand".

    You mean like understanding in like a "I can grasp this concept and I understand exactly what this entails and the complexities of it" or do you mean the meme "Lol Understand, your power is mine bitch".
    The former? With hilarious ease, Kars is bordering on some cosmic awareness shit, the latter? Kars never copied Beyond, though, he never tried and said himself he was fine being a supporting character instead of the main and that Joji was better suited to that status so he just decided to help, but this is case where, even if he didn't try, we don't have anything to assume he could've even if he wanted. 4D shit though is something he has copied with literally zero effort, to the point it's a joke to him, so there's that.
    GiornoGiovannaF
    your in a hospital?
    what happened you ok
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    Been here since the 18th off and on, went to emerge thrice and two days ago they were like "Ok ya gotta stay for awhile". Am I ok? Not really, they want me to stay for another 8 days just in case to see. Honestly that's kinda why I want to get that thread out of the way as soon as possible, I'd prefer not to deal with controversial shit while jacked up on morphine without access to my personal physicals guides beyond what I can get others to get for me. Also it's a pain in the ass and I wanna be in misery in peace. Though in the meantime I could probably work on a few calcs I've been meaning to.
    Cloozuma
    Should I make a CRT about Giorno's AP and Durability? Giorno surviving nearly every stand battle against a Stand that is literally Wall Level to Building Level, yet he still gets Athlete Level on his rating doesn't make sense.
    View previous comments…
    Cloozuma
    Cloozuma
    Hmm...I got him withstanding Sticky Fingers during his first encounter (somewhat Building Level, Wall Level if you don't include Sticky Fingers), survived being bit in the neck and later taken hostage by Clash & getting shot by Aerosmith (both of them are Wall Level), and the Building Level part is that he continued moving while having his bones broken by Green Day, a Building Level stand.
    The AP is that he punched Bucciarati with enough force to use his ability. One note: while GE was shown, the arm used to punch Bucciarati is Giorno's.
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    Bruno using SF is iffy, Bruno was actively confirmed to have NOT wanted to kill him, he held back, even when Giorno was trying to kill him, Bruno wasnt going all out like he should have been so it's hard to quantify as he wasnt hitting to kill.

    Getting bit by Clash isnt a feat, Clash purposely left him alive, he didnt attack to kill, and that attack still gouged his throat out.

    Green Day may be worth looking into if he is indeed a Building Stand physically, he'd backscale off it to a degree.

    Im unsure what you mean by Giorno punching Bruno, I went through the arc and every punch Giorno landed was via GE.

    Also off the top of my head, Giorno has consistently survived brutal car crashes, at the very least, that should be the benchmark, which would put him at at least 9-C. But as said, Green Day be worth looking into and could possibly be used if he does indeed scale 8-C itself, or at the very least, would backscale off whatever Greenday is.

    Threre's some solid anime feats as well but unfortunately we dnt use anime feats if they arent already in the manga.
    Cloozuma
    Cloozuma
    Pretty much the Green Day part was before the 7-Page Muda where he stated that he got some of his bones fractured. If you think Green Day only damage GE check the first scan where he gets punched by Cioccolatta and we can see that Green Day was shown. How about the Aerosmith part?
    Without Hamon, who is stronger? Jonathan or Joseph?
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    Without? Probably Jonathan just from the fact he weighs a total 10kg more due to raw muscle mass and already had some wall level feats without any Hamon.
    StrymULTRA
    Just wanted to make you know that the meteor discussion will be discussed now here
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    Can you give me a quick rundown on what's been discussed? I just woke up. Do we got an accepted planet-large planet end yet?
    StrymULTRA
    StrymULTRA
    There are like 7 posts there with 1 phrase each, nothing to summarize
    M3X_2.0
    Hella

    I'm discussing about Deoxys feat here. https://vsbattles.com/threads/pokemon-5-b-downgrade-im-really-sorry.110166/#post-3456231

    As you argued previously, the manga feat is a surface busting feat. The games only states that the meteor would "break the world forever", wich is vague. And since the wiki accepts feats > statements, and considering the statement is also vague, I think the feat is a legit surface busting in every pokémon midia.

    Can you leave a comment there?
    StrymULTRA
    About a "Stand Physiology" page, did you even think of such possibility?
    View previous comments…
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    A lot of profiles like that are under scrutiny. I'm pretty sure a few have even been nuked already, forget which though (I think The Gentle Pull was nuked, though I think that was for other reasons).
    But eh, not much we can do if it's frowned upon and prone to nuking shortly after creation.

    Though, on the flipside a blog is doable and would be allowed to be linked to the profiles in question and there's plenty of other JJ characters that deserve profiles, given there's some ******* strong characters in it. People have already asked me to write up a Giorno profile. Though personally, there's some more unique and interesting characters that could be created.
    StrymULTRA
    StrymULTRA
    Ik, only that "never saw in combat supreme gods" like True Arceus (which we never saw in combat except the avatar), Annoying Dog, Majestic Presence or Akashik are still a thing.

    Or can be made a profile like this
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    That example doesnt really work, it's not actually vague, hell that profile is a wall of text of anything (Plus, I've only read like 4 novels, but they that thing is a huge detailed plot thing, it's not vague in the slighest).
    True Arceus actually is kinda vague, but we're treating him as just Arceus+1 with like one or two extra abilities due to being the soul thing. And I heard Dog was under scrutiny actually. Not being seen in combat isnt the issue here, it's mostly how other then 4/5 abilities his entire profile would be unknown. Tbh a blog would probably work best, would probably need to do it anyway to compile all the scans that are relevant.

    A profile like that could be maybe made in the future, I'm going to go with doing the blog first when I have free time, after that, it can be decided as to if there's enough to go on.
    What do you think about the "anything is possible if Diavolo dies"? Memes aside of course

    I would say "everything is canon if Diavolo dies", but, from what I understand canon has a separate meaning
    View previous comments…
    WyattR612
    And well, with the Diavolo's death thing, it's possible with the infinite death the example i gave?
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    Diavolo dies an infinite number of times, but not inherently an infinite number of ways. Something like "He gets decked by Goku" isnt a thing that can be used if that's what you're asking, even if he died in a infinite amount of ways, it still wouldnt be usable, nothing ultra meta like that is usable.
    Heaven Dio would likely be a thing if not for the fact him encountering heaven Dio is what allowed him to escape the death loop, though, there's still the canonicity issue.
    WyattR612
    Mmm but what's stopping Diavolo dying in infinite ways? Like, infinite times, infinite possibilities? Or maybe i'm wrong.

    Yeah, DIO release Diavolo from the loop, but ignoring canon thing, what if that is also his death?
    Isn't Crazy Diamond stated as powerful than Star Platinum in 'JOJO A-GO!GO!'?

    "A stand that has the ability to collect destroyed objects and human wounds. There is no restoration left in the garden, regardless of whether it is inorganic or organic. However, those without parts cannot be repaired, nor can they heal illnesses or their own wounds. It is a short-range type and has a short range of 1 to 2 meters, but it has a powerful power that surpasses that of Star Platinum. When he was 4 years old (1997), he had a fever due to the resurrection of DIO, and after wandering between life and death for 50 days, he gained the ability to stand. It seems that his ability healed his family's wounds from an early age. I didn't give a name to my stand, but Jotaro Kujo named it Crazy Diamond because of the sharpness of the assistant".

    Bad translate, but the important line is "スタープラチナを上回るほどの強大パワーを秘めている" (Translated by a user from other forum) that means "It has a powerful power that surpasses Star Platinum".
    View previous comments…
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    Wouldnt be a retcon. At best it's a contradiction, and in this instance, not one that takes precedence over the other numerous statements and showings. But even then, it's explicitly said, even in the manga itself, Star Platinum>>>CD, by multiple characters, like RHCP and even Josuke himself, on top of several wog statements within the manga as well as out of it. In JoJoveller it's also said Star Platinum is the strongest stand in Part 4 and is considered as such by all the enemies.
    The Star Platinum is the strongest Stand line in Part 6 either comes from characters who have no idea GER or even any of the Part 5 Stands even exist, or that one bio which is straight up wrong, nothing more to it it other then that, not everything can be accurate or taken as gospel unfortunately, sometimes there's lines that are wrong and Star Platinum being > GER sure as **** one of em.

    I remember that in Jojoveller it is mentioned that his strength remains the same, and obvious if we do not consider the loss of time in the timestop
    Click to expand...

    It isnt. In fact it's explicitly stated Star Platinum's peak was when he was 18. Meaning, anything after that is obviously not his peak anymore, not withstanding he explicitly got weaker, his time stop shortened, he was rusty even and a multitude of other factors. If you dont mind noncanon information, Jotaro in his older years is about as strong as when he first manifested Star Platinum which is established in that very same canon to be drastically weaker than his peak. His persistence change in Part 6 was literally due to a coma, though, him being A rank still doesn't mean he didn't get weaker, Star Platinum being A rank is in all parts is because even at his worst, he's still a top tier Stand, just not like the second strongest and fastest in history like he once was. Whitesnake, for example, is an A rank stand in power, and he aint shit to Star Platinum, Stand Stats are just approximations, like tiers. Think of them like how we treat our tiering system, take 8-C for example, a low end 8-C can still be one shot by a high end 8-C, despite having the same tier.

    Regardless, in the manga itself we have no less than like 5 statements saying Star Platinum>>>CD and even shown that to be the case, in other guides he's stated to be the strongest Stand in Part 4 still, to the point he even has a reputation among all the enemies of being the strongest, fastest and most invincible Stand. He's explicitly stated to have gotten weaker as well, how much? Dont know, it could be a lot, it could be a little (i'd wager a lot though given he's demonstrably weaker than his prime going by feats and the simple fact his prime was so strong he could unironically one shot his early part 3 self several times over) point is he's weaker so we cant treat him as if he was at his prime, we have to use what we know of him in the parts he's weaker in instead as scaling to his peak becomes impossible for the most part because he's explicitly not at his peak any longer.
    WyattR612
    Ok, considering that line in 'JOJO A-GO! GO!' It's a mistake, I keep getting a question about the strength of Star Platinum:

    It is known that Jotaro's peak was in Stardust Crusaders, but is there anything to confirm that his strength declined directly? Because, there is evidence to the contrary. Although the duration of its timestop declined, everything else seems to be the same, since it is not specified that it was lost from said peak.

    Jojoveller:
    Jotaro visits Morioh Town to talk about heritage distribution to Joseph's secret child, Josuke. Through the battle with the murderer Angelo, he learns that "bow and arrow" is in Morioh Town, and sets out to investigate with Josuke and others. With his age, sharper insight and experience, and the unabated strength of Star Platinum, he has become a prominent figure among his assistants and enemy stand users.
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    Probably the fact we're outright told he's no longer in his prime and is demonstrably weaker than he was when he was in said prime in every single regard from speed, strength, durability, and even his time stop (not to mention Stands weaken with age if not used constantly nd Jotaro himself admits he himself hadn't even used time stop in over a decade). He's still the strongest in Part 4, but he would literally get one shot by peak Jotaro.
    Plus as said, in tertiary sources, it's made explicitly clear he's weaker in Part 4 and even stated as such, and his peak self around the Dio fight would hang him out to dry.
    Unless you think almost every Stand in Part 4 is suddenly above The World, as that's the only way this would actually be true.

    I'm fine with using guides, but the guides also have to be consistent with the source material, supplementary or new info is one thing, but info that goes against the source isn't usable.

    Matter of the fact is, Star Platinum is no longer in his prime, he's demonstrably weaker as well. How much weaker? As said, I'm not sure unless we count tertiary information, in which case we know more or less how much. But he is weaker in just about every regard.
    The source material says at least five times he's the strongest Stand in Part 4 (hell even JoJoveller as well says as much) and much stronger than Crazy Diamond, which kinda tosses that one CD quote out the window as it's contradicted not only in the source material multiple times but has since been stated to not be the case.

    Also, if it was just his time stop, then literally nothing would have changed because he had a 5 second time stop in Part 6, yet was still not his peak.
    Well, as you told me in the other wikia, here is the King Crimson 'JOJO A-GO!GO!' scans.

    I asked this man on another forum to post it, so there it is.
    Twellas
    I think it's best if we go on discord and compile a list of calc'd feats to then present, because we are going nowhere this way
    M3X_2.0
    Hey, you might like this

    vsbattles.com

    Let's slow down a little (JJBA speed downgrade)

    I surprisingly never saw any kind of downgrade about this, but MFTL for everyone and their grandmother is kinda incoherent, so let's go see everything regarding this: Polnareff and Hanged Man Basically the origin of the rating (since every others feats seems to be between FTL and FTL+); coming...
    vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
    GiornoGiovannaF
    Hello chariot i was gonna ask you are there gonna be some jojo revision now that we have switched sites
    View previous comments…
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    Don't know really, I have a few off the top of my head that need to be added, but I'm probably gonna do a quick read of the manga as a whole and write down any abilities that could be missing, but at the moment there's a few I know need to be added, like the mentioned Lisa Lisa sensing (Plus in that same scene Kars could turn a servant into a double of him, so that would need to be mentioned), though a few other ones would be, well Soft&Wet is missing a fuckton now and hasnt been updated in years, there's a lot there like explosion manip, Jotaro needs berserker rage (confirmed he gets stronger the more pissed he gets via wog, shown against Dio), a few characters need instinctive reaction (forget which, I think Diego and Joseph? I honestly forget as it was just something I noticed months ago when reading, I'll need to check), a few characters also show some info analysis like Big Boss does and some sensing a person's intent/malice, but to a smaller extent compared to Lisa Lisa who could not only sense someone's intent to attack but where they'd attack from. A few things off the top of my head but as said, I'm gonna go do a read through eventually.

    And speaking of Big Boss, been playing through all of Metal Gear, around late August, I've played Solid 3, Peace Walker, MSX 1, MSX 2, Solid 1, Solid 2, Solid 4, Ground Zeroes, in that order, and I'm playing MgsV right now, almost done it, I'm at like 82%, after I'm done I'll probably hit up Dargoo, try and clarify the last few things and either wait on the heat CRT or just go ahead and publish the CRT for the tiering.
    GiornoGiovannaF
    GiornoGiovannaF
    on what console do you play mgs
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    MSX gams and Twin Snakes was on PC (I bought a physical copy of twin snakes to play on GC but it got damaged in shipping and wouldn't play so I had to emulate it on Dolphin), Solid 2/3/Peace was on PS3 via the HD collection, 4 was played on PS3 because that's the only console it's on physically, V is PS4. Solid 1 was PS1.
    Huzy
    So CRTs are allowed again, who'll be making the JoJo one?
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    What do you mean? That could be one of like a dozen crts, clarify please.
    Zel97
    At long last,its finally here man
    View previous comments…
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    Thought it was just me, I'm on mobile so I assumed it was just my phone not liking it, but I'm on dark mode so could be why.
    Zel97
    Zel97
    Dumb question but how do i search for character profiles?
    Chariot190
    Chariot190
    You don't. Only the forum moved. All our profiles and shit are being kept on the the wiki along with blogs. This site is literally just our new forum.
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