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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread
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Yes, and you think Teen Minato is Kurama level, so realistically they would all be wiped effotlessly by the older, stronger Minato. Come to think of it, in that same one-shot, he's threatened by regular Bijuu Bombs, and there certainly aren't years passing between that and the Kushina fight.
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Yeah, Minato wasn’t the one to put up the barrier or restrain Kurama at that point. Kushina did. Still impressive for her condition. All Minato did was split and seal Kurama and his and Kushina’s chakra into Naruto.
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Pure lands are higer dimensional
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uh, no?
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Still crazy how P***y Whipped Minato was though. He chose suicide vs living without Kushina and raising their child. Even Kushina was like, “This ain’t necessary, raise our son!”
Literally Minato’s response is contradictory to his actions and freaking killed me!!
Literally Minato’s response is contradictory to his actions and freaking killed me!!
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This would have been made far better if Naruto hadn't just been left in an apartment with a 20 dollar bill as a babyStill crazy how P***y Whipped Minato was though. He chose suicide vs living without Kushina and raising their child. Even Kushina was like, “This ain’t necessary, raise our son!”
Literally Minato’s response is contradictory to his actions freaking killed me!!
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Like, I could imagine if Obito had fatally injured Minato and he was going to die anyways, but nah…
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made my day lmfao
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I do genuinely believe Minato is just a tiny bit of a sociopath
You don't kill thousands of shinobi without being a little mentally unstable
You don't kill thousands of shinobi without being a little mentally unstable
MinatoSparkle
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Absorbing the cloak doesn't mean absorbing all the chakra of someone, but it means absorbing the Bijuu chakra. Pain is just worse with the Rinnegan abilities than a lot of other people. Crippled Nagato instantly absorbed V2 Bee's entire cloak.
His normal reserves were refilled then he got extra on top, I'm arguing the extra was drained when Obito absorbed his cloak considering a cloak is the main indicator we have of Bijuu chakra amping you.
He got to the point of being drained via fighting Obito this whole time and having to teleport out of Kamui (which was probably the biggest factor). Also you ignored the feat of him intercepting Obito's attack on Naruto. Obito had absolutely no reason to be holding back there.
Btw something that might be prudent to mention, that initial Kurama amp Kakashi had was all used up when Kakashi teleported Bee.
I would not call it baseless when Kakashi has several feats pitting him on Obito's level before any Kyuubi amps, and even far after getting the Kyuubi chakra sucked out of him and clearly being drained again, he still has feats on a similar level later in the war (refer to my conversation with @The_one_you_least_expect)
Kakashi read his chakra level after absorbing the cloak and didn't have any qualms with fighting him one on one so...
I don't see how that helps you here
It's stated it gets sucked into an endless void though, which is different from Delta who can't absorb infinitely because she can use chakra she absorbs.
Bro was pissed af and literally about to kill Kakashi before he was snapped out of his rageOr Obito was just holding back…
In fact it still seemed like he was going for itKurama~PS EMS Madara>SEMS Sasuke~BSM Naruto>>MKCM2 Naruto>>Hokage Minato>>Teen Minato
Kurama was talking about his skill with fuinjutsu, which at most means Minato's ninjutsu skill/talent is comparable to Hashirama's, not his overall power.
I agree with this ftmp
But I don't think this is a very good argument against it. Obito is incredibly powerful and doesn't really have antifeats, and Minato was pretty casual against Ay and Bee, literally taking time to give them life advice and not using Rasengan (which I previously would've chalked up to him not knowing it, but now we know he'd mastered it years ago).
I think that was lowkey a retcon considering Minato looks the same from when he first saw the jinchurikis' Bijuudamas and the rest of the one shot. Kushina also acts like this is the first time he's skipped a training session with her. He's just him, developing Rasengan in one afternoon
To be fair, Jinchuriki>Bijuu, but I agree with 100% Kurama>KCM2 Naruto anyways for different reasons (also YM Obito>>OM Obito but let's not get into allat).
He did it for the sake of Konoha's futureStill crazy how P***y Whipped Minato was though. He chose suicide vs living without Kushina and raising their child. Even Kushina was like, “This ain’t necessary, raise our son!”
Literally Minato’s response is contradictory to his actions and freaking killed me!!
I think you could say this about most veteran shinobi. Is Kakashi a sociopath? Hashirama? Killing a ton of shinobi heartlessly is a reflection of the messed up shinobi world, not individuals' psyches.
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True but he was still pretty confident in doing it himself
Ya cuz he beat kurama in a weakened state. And kurama hyped him up.He did wipe them out effortlessly, people were literally told to run on sight including ay. the only read obito lasted so long was because Kami is op. Ya pre rasegan and while his already tired.
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@MinatoSparkle Yes actually, quite a few of the characters we love are def mentally unstable
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Apparently you did because that’s basically what happened. Where are you kinda taijustu biju lvl Minato from lol? I never stated he was physically that strong. He did, naruto was getting jumping by obito pains and was basically cooked until kakashi and guy swooped in and saved the day.
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my dude....most people in the Naruto world would be considered extremely mentally ill by our standards. like just take Kakashi for example. seeing apparitions and hallucinations of his dead sensei everywhere, a classic case of schizophrenia right there. Can also be PTSD and most veteran shinobi probably have PTSD from previous conflicts and wars
MinatoSparkle
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I disagree, they don't have mentally unstable personalities, it's just their war actions that would strike people as those of someone mentally unstable, but it's literally just because that's what a shinobi is supposed to do, it's not something they're doing because of something specific to their minds.
That's the problem, using our standards for a world so far removed from our own. That's filler Kakashi, who I'd agree was mentally unstable. I'm talking about current Kakashi. Even P1/P2 Kakashi is stable most of the time, only really being out of it when faced with Obito.
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Minato wasn't blitzing and oneshotting him, his Rasengan did do significant damage, and he was faster, but that is not what happened.
if you think his teenage Rasengan is equal to Kurama's Bijuu Bomb, how are his adult physicals not comparable to Kurama's physicals.
Yes. By the Pains. Who are Bijuu, and weaker than Kurama. He wasn't significantly superior to Kurama Mode Naruto physically.
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I wonder how things would've turned out if Kinshiki and Momoshiki arrived during the War Arc (around the time Might guy dies)
MinatoSparkle
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They would have wiped everyone.
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You’re right, he two shotted him. Took his shit then obito left.
What are even talking about? Rasegan has nothing to do with your physicals. Most ninjutsu don’t.
He was and doesn’t even need to be because of Kamui. Being powerful doesn’t always equate to be physical more powerful then everyone
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Rasengan and Bijuu Bomb are based on the same principle, and technically, Bijuu Bomb is shown to be a higher amp than Rasengan. Minato's Rasengan is not amping him as much as a Bijuu Bomb. Rasengan doesn't have anything to do with physicals, you're right. But you know what does have to do with scaling? Being actively contained and weakened, and not releasing anything near full power.
That's KCM/KCM1, not KM/KCM2
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weakened? Not anywhere near full power? Kurama’s ass was about to bust out of the Kushina seal. The only reason he couldn’t was because Minato stopped him with his own sealing style and beat him down with a rasegan. Minato did that with a hole in his chest, poisoned by kurama’s chakra and tired from training while using an imperfect version of the rasegan. Minato was in a far worse condition then kurama
You said kcm but whatever
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ABOUT TO. He hadn't yet. That is notably less than full power, and Kushina was actively fighting him.
Also, I just reread the fight with Obito, and Obito takes the Rasengan and his chain being forced inside his hand, and isn't that badly hurt. He's hurt, but can still move, and isn't even slowed that much. He only left because Kurama got cut off from him. He was inferior to Minato, but not enough to get wiped, and that form is inferior to Orange Mask Obito.
I said Kurama Mode, not Kyuubi Chakra Mode.
MinatoSparkle
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Hey speaking of Minato it looks like his AP justification was edited without a CRT
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On what basis, there’s nothing implying his massively weaker? And getting overpowered, she was literally telling Minato to run
His whole arm fell off what are you talking about? So he got blitzed, lost an arm, got blitzed and lost kurama and got run through but he didn’t get wiped?
Oh ya that’s MB
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Then that means you concede Kakashi vs Obito is a Massively Amped Kyuubi Kakashi, no? Also, while we know that Paths Abilities are stronger when used directly by Nagato, that doesn’t mean they are diminished to the point of being below a single Rinnegan user. The Path’s usage of Preta mirrors Edo Madara’s usage, even going as far as having similar feats. Both of which should be above Obito’s usage. And absorbing a V1 Cloak =/= Absorbing a V2 Cloak. All of this to say, while Obito absorbed the cloak, he wouldn’t have absorbed the Chakra out of Kakashi’s body to any significant degree.
If you hold the stance that the Cloak holds that extra Kurama gave him, then you have no choice but to concede that Obito is amped far more than Kakashi and thus held back as that chakra is stated to stronger and more quantitive than Kakashi initially received, which is the point of bringing it up.
Again, this doesn’t prove Kakashi = Obito as later, Obito fights a massively amped Kakashi evenly. There are only three ways to reconcile that fight and this one:
- Obito wasn’t going all out.
- Obito is significantly weaker than Kakashi
There is just no other feasible way you can have Kakashi = to Obito in the Dimension given Kakashi is massively amped.
Fair point, but you still run into the same issue. If Kakashi is drained and gains more chakra than he did last time that is STRONGER than what he got Last time, this means Cloak Kakashi > Dimension Fight Kakashi > Initial Kyuubi Amp Kakashi > Fresh Kakashi (No Amp).
This means Dimension Fight Obito is Unquantifiably Amped against a Kyuubi Amped Kakashi whom is stronger than the previous Kyuubi Amp, that is stronger than a would be Fresh Kakashi that you say Obito is equal to. Again, you can’t reconcile those fights unless Obito is holding back somewhere, and honestly that is just plain implication of Obito having been stated to used Kakashi or that Kakashi is simply stronger than Obito, which is not the case.
You’re ignoring the fact that Obito could fight a massively amped Kakashi evenly. You have have no room for debate here unfortunately because you have to first make the assumption Obito is either far more amped than Kakashi after absorbing the Cloak or far less amped than Kakashi bc most of that chakra went to refilling his tank and that the cloak was just the excess ontop. You can’t even split it because Obito wasn’t anywhere near gassed before he absorbed the cloak. And it’s THIS fight you have to clear first because it informs whether or not Obito was holding back against Kakashi in that initial fight. It doesn’t matter what feats Kakashi has in those moments when the later fight informs whether or not Obito was holding back.
This doesn’t change the fact that Kakashi is massively amped and was still matched. Again, you have to figure out the determinations i presented in my response above this one.
You have to make more assumptions to get to Kakashi = Obito.
It’s literally stated in the scan you just linked that the chakra disperses into the body.
You don’t have to significantly exert yourself to kill someone weaker than you. Ask WZ…Bro was pissed af and literally about to kill Kakashi before he was snapped out of his rage
Well there are two options here:I think that was lowkey a retcon considering Minato looks the same from when he first saw the jinchurikis' Bijuudamas and the rest of the one shot. Kushina also acts like this is the first time he's skipped a training session with her. He's just him, developing Rasengan in one afternoon
- There is a 3 Year time-jump between Minato seeing it and the when he tells Kushina he is working on another jutsu (And he does say it’s unfinished that point and they don’t specifiy it’s that mission with Jiraiya they have to report)
- Minato was developing the Rasengan based on pure Theory Alone (As he tells Kushina fhe jutsu is unfinished meaning he’s already been working on it prior to that moment) and that mission w/ Jiraiya was simply the first time he saw the TBB in practice and not some scroll or book.
So he says… but the fact is, he is the Hokage and his death is equally as important the Nation. He is implied to have had other options for Sealing Kurama and not use RDS. He could have lived but chose not to. It’s not like his hands were tied or anything like that. He simply didn’t want to live without Kushina.
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So is Mini Kurama ~ Isshiki since Daemon considers it strong?
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a small kurama being literal thousands of times stronger than the actual Kurama is....peak Boruto moment
MinatoSparkle
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I've been thinking about this for a bit and I think the conclusion I've come to is that either way, Base Kakashi~Base Obito, and if Obito was more amped than Kakashi and held back, then that's fine and doesn't contradict them normally being close. I also think it's fair to say that Obito may have absorbed a comparable amount to what Kakashi had left so that the amps cancelled out, but that's not really provable. So I'll concede that using their dimension fight for scaling is pretty iffy, although this applies both ways. It doesn't change Kakashi's placement, just makes arguing for it a little less convenient.
I will mention that Kurama Amped Kakashi is definitely >Base Obito though.
Sure Ay didn't specifically go LCM to do it, but there's no reason to think he was holding back in his current state, just like Obito, especially considering that Kakashi was taking his blows unlike WZ who got one shot when Ay tried to kill him.You don’t have to significantly exert yourself to kill someone weaker than you. Ask WZ…
X doubt
That's plausible although completing it in one session after getting a model to base Rasengan after is still mighty impressive.
I mean KCM2 Naruto is stronger than Hokage Minato so turns out he was right in terms of preserving Konoha's military strength. And the other option mentioned is Kushina taking Kurama with her to her death, but that would just cause Kurama to outright die and respawn somewhere else later to wreak havoc and need to be handled.So he says… but the fact is, he is the Hokage and his death is equally as important the Nation. He is implied to have had other options for Sealing Kurama and not use RDS. He could have lived but chose not to. It’s not like his hands were tied or anything like that. He simply didn’t want to live without Kushina.
Also no he absolutely didn't just die cause he wanted to be with Kushina, he literally explains in detail that he's believing in Naruto and the prophecy about him. And y'know what? He was absolutely right.
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I can’t tell if you’re serious or not
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Good enough for me!
He says it in the next page.
Oh certainly! No fraudulent activity from this man.
Politically, it’s the same. A Nuclear Arsenal is equally as important to military strength as a Head of State being active, ntm while Minato may have not been > Kurama, he by himself represented a SIGNIFICANT portion of Konoha’s Military Strength, especially when the “Jinchuriki” was useless at that point in the short term, being a baby all. Konoha not only lost their Kage, a Significant Chess Piece when all NV were still hostile to each other at that point, but their “Nuclear Arsenal” was defunct at that point.
Minato’s decision left Konoha weaker than ever.
That was just one option and not the only option he had, especially seeing as Minato knows all Uzumaki sealing Jutsu. Ntm Kushina’s statement logically can’t just refer to that as even her own seal, as well as Mito’s, is more than capable of sealing Kurama.
Except that doesn’t really help the argument. Here are the options:
- Kushina’s Plan: Kushina takes Kurama to the Grave. Minato lives. The Biju Balance is Broken (Not that other villages would know that). Their political leader and a corner stone of their Military Might is still active. Minato is able to plan with Hiruzen l, Jiraiya and others for Kurama’s resurrection. Naruto is Raised by Minato.
- What happened: Minato Dies. Kushina Dies. They have a Jinchuriki whom is useless to them for at least a decade. The previous Hokage whom is long past his prime resumes his reign. Konoha’s Military Might is severely weakend, leaving them more vulnerable than ever. Naruto is orphaned and dejected.
- Alternate Possibility: Kushina Dies. Minato seals Kurama in Naruto with another seal. Konoha’s Military Might takes a bit of a hit w/ no active Jinchuriki in the Short Term. Business as Usual. Naruto is Raised by Minato.
And yes… his motivation for RDS was Kushina.
And I do want to attack this… after Minato gives his reasoning to Kushina, she still counters with asking him “Why RDS?” And attributes his impending death to helping her see Naruto again, which is the idea Minato got from her speech anyways and he acknowledges that he doesn’t have to and is doing this for both her and Naruto.
The overall implication here being, he had other options and Minato doesn’t have to die! No matter how you want to cook the statements, the fact remains, Minato doesn’t have to die!
He “chose” to needlessly die.
Now… Of course I jest when I characterize the “reason” for his death, I.E. P***y Whipped, but the fact is… he still chose to die so Kushina could see Naruto again and that this act, instead of exercising other options at his disposal, put Konoha in a worse position. Afterall, a Nuke you can’t potentially use is useless to your Military Might.
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Damn… I forgot who i was talking to. Sparkle about to FTG Rasengan my argument!
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tbh I kinda thought Minato had to use the RDS because his chakra was to low and kurama had so much or something like that. Might have to re read this.
Except that doesn’t really help the argument. Here are the options:
In each instance, Minato can still have his faith and belief in his son. His death still was not necessary and for all his talk about, “Forsaking his Country”, he needlessly knee-capped Konoha and the Land of Fire. In fact, his whole speech simply side-stepped Kushina’s point and didn’t address it.
- Kushina’s Plan: Kushina takes Kurama to the Grave. Minato lives. The Biju Balance is Broken (Not that other villages would know that). Their political leader and a corner stone of their Military Might is still active. Minato is able to plan with Hiruzen l, Jiraiya and others for Kurama’s resurrection. Naruto is Raised by Minato.
- What happened: Minato Dies. Kushina Dies. They have a Jinchuriki whom is useless to them for at least a decade. The previous Hokage whom is long past his prime resumes his reign. Konoha’s Military Might is severely weakend, leaving them more vulnerable than ever. Naruto is orphaned and dejected.
- Alternate Possibility: Kushina Dies. Minato seals Kurama in Naruto with another seal. Konoha’s Military Might takes a bit of a hit w/ no active Jinchuriki in the Short Term. Business as Usual. Naruto is Raised by Minato.
And yes… his motivation for RDS was Kushina.
And I do want to attack this… after Minato gives his reasoning to Kushina, she still counters with asking him “Why RDS?” And attributes his impending death to helping her see Naruto again, which is the idea Minato got from her speech anyways and he acknowledges that he doesn’t have to and is doing this for both her and Naruto.
The overall implication here being, he had other options and Minato doesn’t have to die! No matter how you want to cook the statements, the fact remains, Minato doesn’t have to die!
He “chose” to needlessly die.
Now… Of course I jest when I characterize the “reason” for his death, I.E. P***y Whipped, but the fact is… he still chose to die so Kushina could see Naruto again and that this act, instead of exercising other options at his disposal, put Konoha in a worse position. Afterall, a Nuke you can’t potentially use is useless to your Military Might.
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A.P section is done
vsbattles.fandom.com
That moron2/Naruto Stuff
vsbattles.fandom.com
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He took heavy damage to his arm because he accidentally Kamui'd his chain into it. Did his arm actually fall off in the manga, though?
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It was because he wanted Kurama to still be around.
MinatoSparkle
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I'll take itGood enough for me!
Broken link, I use this site which always seems to work. Anyways, my point is that Minato looks the same age, there's no physical indication of a 3 year time skip.
Minato seems to think the Bijuu is more important. Also the difference is that if he died, Hiruzen would still be around to serve as Hokage, but if Kurama died, no one could replace him.
He planned for the long term
We don't know for sure that he can use ALL Uzumaki sealing jutsu, and either way it doesn't mean he can seal away someone as strong as the Wood Golem and Perfect Susanoo
We have no idea how Kushina's seal was done, but it's very possible that Mito was involved, probably taking Kurama out of herself and putting him into Kushina, dying in the process, as Minato highlights RDS as something he can do, not being a jinchuriki. Now we do know that Mito put Kurama inside of herself, but Mito having stronger sealing jutsu than Minato, especially when he has almost no chakra left, is fine.
Idk about long past his prime, Hiruzen had some pretty good feats against Kurama. And he was still the strongest of the Five Kage.
The problem is that you're presupposing that Minato can seal 100% Kurama.
He wanted Kushina to talk to Naruto for sure, but he talks about several other reasons as well that I talked about. Preserving the Bijuu balance, dealing with half of Kurama's troublesome power since he's so hard to control as is (example being that Kushina needed to literally stay in a circle for a large portion of her life just to stay in control, while Naruto was just fine doing whatever he pleased), helping Naruto become the child of prophecy which he would not have been able to do otherwise based on his own statements, having Kushina help Naruto take Kurama's power with her chains (which Minato wouldn't have been able to do as effectively even if he did what Bee did, both because he doesn't have anything with the raw strength of the Adamantine Sealing Chains and because Naruto would have to deal with 100% Kurama, who is above Minato's paygrade)
He's saying even if he let Kushina take Kurama and raised Naruto, he wouldn't have been able to impart what Kushina could. This is too vague to say it means Minato could've just sealed all of Kurama in Naruto with some normal sealing jutsu.
You're right, he could've let Kushina and Kurama die and remain as Hokage. No one's contesting that.
R u sure about thatHe “chose” to needlessly die.
Now… Of course I jest when I characterize the “reason” for his death, I.E. P***y Whipped, but the fact is… he still chose to die so Kushina could see Naruto again and that this act, instead of exercising other options at his disposal, put Konoha in a worse position. Afterall, a Nuke you can’t potentially use is useless to your Military Might.
Uhhhhh no that's never implied. His chain is just hanging from his wrist where he tied it. And certainly seems like his hand fell off.
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Were exactly are you getting that from, because I haven’t seen anything that even implies that. Yes it did
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