General DC Comics Discussion Thread

[Elizio33]

Can you explain how you can fit together other authors with DeMatteis, and the resulting tiering, in an easily understood manner please?

It's too early to give you an answer, but I will start by searching for as much information as possible after the holidays and provide you with an appropriate answer later.

 

[Antvasima]

It's too early to give you an answer, but I will start by searching for as much information as possible after the holidays and provide you with an appropriate answer later.

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Averroes1]

This is a very peculiar cosmology change.

Planetime and Cubetime are listed above the Multiversity map because they are dimensions of Hypertime, and Hypertime encompasses the Omniverse, which is a little strange considering Hypertime literally encompasses all possible universes, so why exactly would Cubetime and Planetime be any different?

The Dark Multiverse and the Other place are listed beyond even the Monitor sphere which is weird, considering the Other place is literally just a dark Sphere of Gods, and thus, vibrates on the level of the SoG, not the Monitor sphere.

Edit: Of course, there is a lot of comments to be made at the Overvoid/Source/Presence section but eh. In another time, I guess

 

[Brahmatman]

I don’t understand what the problem is in uniting cosmologies if they have similar concepts. Marvel cosmology is united without problems, although it has different authors, or the World of Darkness

 

[Hypertornado099]

I don’t understand what the problem is in uniting cosmologies if they have similar concepts. Marvel cosmology is united without problems, although it has different authors, or the World of Darkness

It would probably be a good idea to make a CRT to split Marvel's cosmology if you think gathering the evidence you have is worth the effort

 

[Williams249]

Planetime and Cubetime are listed above the Multiversity map because they are dimensions of Hypertime, and Hypertime encompasses the Omniverse, which is a little strange considering Hypertime literally encompasses all possible universes, so why exactly would Cubetime and Planetime be any different?

Elaborate

The Dark Multiverse and the Other place are listed beyond even the Monitor sphere which is weird, considering the Other place is literally just a dark Sphere of Gods, and thus, vibrates on the level of the SoG, not the Monitor sphere.

I think it's mainly because the Dark Multiverse is the dark opposite to the Light Multiverse/Multiversity Map. There's a bit of a weird equivocation between DM and Otherplace, yes. So Otherplace should scale to SoG (L-1C) and Dark Multiverse should be H-1C, probably.

 

[Elizio33]

This is a very peculiar cosmology change.

Planetime and Cubetime are listed above the Multiversity map because they are dimensions of Hypertime, and Hypertime encompasses the Omniverse, which is a little strange considering Hypertime literally encompasses all possible universes, so why exactly would Cubetime and Planetime be any different?

Hypertime is listed in the same place as the Divine Continuum/Totality of Creation. It is the time aspect of existence and a three-dimensional time dimension, which seems like higher infinities given that cube time is where beings see the creation below from a higher-dimensional perspective (i.e. flat) as mentioned in The Return of Bruce Wayne. I know Morrison said in an interview that Cube time is our real world but in the same interview he also talked about hypercube time, a concept never mentioned in the comics so I wouldn't count that interview. I'm basing this on information from the Bruce Wayne Returns story.

The Dark Multiverse and the Other place are listed beyond even the Monitor sphere which is weird, considering the Other place is literally just a dark Sphere of Gods, and thus, vibrates on the level of the SoG, not the Monitor sphere.

The Dark Multiverse is listed above the Monitor Sphere because the entire map of the multiverse floats on it, as Kendra Saunders used the entire map to describe how big the Dark Multiverse is. Another example is in Steve Orlando's The Unexpected series, when Mandrakk fell into the Overvoid, he landed in the Dark Multiverse, and the Monitor Sphere was depicted as being an intermediary between the Main DC Multiverse and the Dark Multiverse throughout the story.

The Other Place is an empty void of space surrounding the Dark Multiverse that was infected by the Upside-Down Man using "his reality."

Edit: Of course, there is a lot of comments to be made at the Overvoid/Source/Presence section but eh. In another time, I guess.

What kind of comments?

Edit: Hypertime is composed of three time dimensions (line time, plane time, and cube time, hence the reason why Hypertime is a 3-D temporal dimension)

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

No, they are residents of the Sphere of the Gods, and cannot reach such a level due to the cosmological hierarchy. These are ordinary physical multiverses, not multiverses on Overvoid.

This was a point made by Grant which isn't sufficient enough for how they were viewed in Neil Gaiman's writing. Even then, the Monitors can dream, die, or have a destiny. Presumably, they being in the Sphere has no correlation to their reach and power since not every being is equal in power to each other in the Sphere.

Let them do what they want, the main point is that Anti-Life is a killer of gods in the Vertigo cosmology, which they so love without reason to consider as a different cosmology on this wiki. Or we can say that Yahweh is God beyond the gods, but then this would be contrary to his so-called status. By the way, the Endlesw are beyond the gods, but Yahweh, for some reason, is stronger. As I already wrote, being outside of something is not necessarily superior to something.

Anti-life is the message behind the death of the Universe. Alongside its many names that would naturally occur as the Duke literally mentions the many things you can it.

Endless are beyond the gods in scope. Yahweh clearly isn't just a mere “god” his like the pantheons. He literally made Creation and defined all its laws. The Endless popped up as a side effect of that making and the gods were born after the Dream. Even then, him as Yahweh was made because humans had enough collective “dreams” to change all of reality from the beginning and end.

It’s very interesting how Darkseid became the protector of the universe, and could leave it without protection, if he himself almost destroyed the multiverse? In the context of protecting the universe, only Yahweh was written. Many gods died in the Crisis, so you can write about anyone, but we’re talking only about the context.

The only “dying god” in context was Darkseid. He didn't protect the Universe, he wanted to drag it all down while being the ultimate final God before he did. He was broken and wounded like how Mandrakk and Batman described him.

Radiant was listed as an angel. I didn't write that Yahweh was killed or driven out by Mandrakk, he was killed by Anti-Life. Because it is simply a figure of speech or a literary description that Yahweh has abandoned the universe due to actions against him and cannot protect it. This contradicts itself, because Darkseid was already long dead at that time, killed by Black Racer, and he could not have died at that moment

The Anti-Life forces submission to the user's will. It wasn't used to end the gods. That happened as a follow-up of Death of the New Gods which Final Crisis is supposed to take place after. That was what the “war in Heaven” was.

The Host of Darkseid was killed, not the entity. Superman literally talked to Darkseid in his Turner form before shattering his essence. He retreated and shortly after did Mandrakk appeared.

 

[Averroes1]

Hypertime is listed in the same place as the Divine Continuum/Totality of Creation. It is the time aspect of existence and a three-dimensional time dimension, which seems like higher infinities given that cube time is where beings see the creation below from a higher-dimensional perspective (i.e. flat) as mentioned in The Return of Bruce Wayne.

I get that. But it assumes Hypertime to be a place that envelopes the Multiverse even though it's essentially an abstract force governing all of it.

Cubetime and Planetime aren't any higher then any other realm in Hypertime, especially not to the point that Planetime (which is very explicitly just timelines), essentially encompasses separate Multiversity maps by sheer size (which we know to be untrue, because the issue was taking place in the Vanishing Point, which we know to be at the end of a single linetime, so how exactly is a Linetime a higher dimension in comparison to the entire map).

The Dark Multiverse is listed above the Monitor Sphere because the entire map of the multiverse floats on it, as Kendra Saunders used the entire map to describe how big the Dark Multiverse is.

That doesn't make much sense imo, the Fuginauts for example exist in the branefold interior, which separates all spaces and times, which does extend to the Dark Multiverse considering they monitor the Dark timelines and make sure that they don't seep into reality.

The branefold interior is very explicitly physical, and thus, the spaces surrounding the Dark Multiverse are also physical. We already know physical and matter-based things don't extend past the speed force, so the Dark Multiverse also does not. There is a lot more, but the Dark Multiverse cannot really extend that far into the cosmology.

Another example is in Steve Orlando's The Unexpected series, when Mandrakk fell into the Overvoid, he landed in the Dark Multiverse, and the Monitor Sphere was depicted as being an intermediary between the Main DC Multiverse and the Dark Multiverse throughout the story.

I am not aware of any instances of it being seen as the intermediary between the Multiverse and the Dark Multiverse throughout the Unexpected. But there is a pretty important thing to recognize regarding the Monitors, the Overvoid can erase them and bring them back again, we see this with Nix at the end of Final Crisis #7 when he gets erased into the Void as it erases the panels and then is seen waking up in the Multiverse.

So the Overvoid erases, and if it decides to "spare you as its only interface with the Multiverse" (i.e. what happened to Nix) it can spawn you anywhere.

And thus, Mandrakk didn't "fall" into the Dark Multiverse, he got his idea erased as FC said, and then reformed in Unexpected. We simply did not receive context of how he got there.

The Other Place is an empty void of space surrounding the Dark Multiverse that was infected by the Upside-Down Man using "his reality."

Here is the thing, it is also just an opposite of the Sphere of Gods.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

If a character is not called by name, this does not permanently indicate that it is a different character. God in the Crisis was called the creator of angels, this is Yahweh, and no one else. I remember people asking when the Superman movie came out who the Man of Steel was and where Superman was. Well, they didn’t name the film after the character’s name, that doesn’t make the character different

Again, relevance?

My point has nothing to do with this. You're a statement of being shaving title as their name is common and general knowledge. The point is what was being misunderstood that you needed to bring that point. Overall, it sounds moot and irrelevant.

 

[Elizio33]

I get that. But it assumes Hypertime to be a place that envelopes the Multiverse even though it's essentially an abstract force governing all of it.

Cubetime and Planetime aren't any higher then any other realm in Hypertime, especially not to the point that Planetime (which is very explicitly just timelines), essentially encompasses separate Multiversity maps by sheer size (which we know to be untrue, because the issue was taking place in the Vanishing Point, which we know to be at the end of a single linetime, so how exactly is a Linetime a higher dimension in comparison to the entire map).


That doesn't make much sense imo, the Fuginauts for example exist in the branefold interior, which separates all spaces and times, which does extend to the Dark Multiverse considering they monitor the Dark timelines and make sure that they don't seep into reality.

The branefold interior is very explicitly physical, and thus, the spaces surrounding the Dark Multiverse are also physical. We already know physical and matter-based things don't extend past the speed force, so the Dark Multiverse also does not. There is a lot more, but the Dark Multiverse cannot really extend that far into the cosmology.


I am not aware of any instances of it being seen as the intermediary between the Multiverse and the Dark Multiverse throughout the Unexpected. But there is a pretty important thing to recognize regarding the Monitors, the Overvoid can erase them and bring them back again, we see this with Nix at the end of Final Crisis #7 when he gets erased into the Void as it erases the panels and then is seen waking up in the Multiverse.

So the Overvoid erases, and if it decides to "spare you as its only interface with the Multiverse" (i.e. what happened to Nix) it can spawn you anywhere.

And thus, Mandrakk didn't "fall" into the Dark Multiverse, he got his idea erased as FC said, and then reformed in Unexpected. We simply did not receive context of how he got there.


Here is the thing, it is also just an opposite of the Sphere of Gods.

1. Yeah I know, but they are part of Hypertime. They are temporal dimensions composing a three-dimensional time-based concept that is Hypertime.

2. The entire map of the multiverse was used to describe the Dark Multiverse, so it makes sense.

3. Just like the Dark Multiverse is the dark opposite of the main DC Multiverse, but it's still way bigger than it. It is the same with the Other Place and the Sphere of the Gods.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I agree the Otherplace and Dark Multiverse are beyond the entire Map. It's not part of the order of created things and not tied to the Light Multiverse.

As Diana States everything Hecate did, the Upside Dowman did the opposite. Since the Otherplace is located within the darker Multiverse it is indeed beyond the reach of the Monitor Sphere. Probably far predates it as well.

 

[Averroes1]

1. Yeah I know, but they are part of Hypertime. They are temporal dimensions composing a three-dimensional time-based concept that is Hypertime.

Well, lets get something out of the way, linetime does not encompass the entire map no matter how you want to look at it, this would imply that the Vanishing point exists at the endpoint of not just the entire Multiverse, but the entire MultiversIty map, which needless to say, would be completely nonsensical from it's many instances of clearly existing at the end of the time dimension of a single Earth.

So off the bat, linetime is not a higher time dimension in comparison to the map, Planetime is a whole lot of Linetimes lined up perpendicularly and Cubetime is the same for Planetime.

You'd be describing 3 time dimensions (i.e. an overall rating of 1-C/8-D) for the Multiverse, not 3 time dimensions for the map. Consistent with Allen Adams scan.

Responding to the rest later.

 

[Jolman1]

Well, DeMatteis has been quite consistent with the "cosmological" structures that he has set up based on his belief system, regardless if he has worked with Marvel Comics, DC Comics, or independently, so I am tempted to just say that we should scale from his intentions when we scale his "cosmology" independently, but suppose that may be a bad idea.

Can you explain how you can fit together other authors with DeMatteis, and the resulting tiering, in an easily understood manner please?

Similar concepts and descriptions within John's cosmology (Bleedspace, realm of lords, gods, collective unconscious, dreamworld, nightmare's realm, heaven and hell etc).

 

[Elizio33]

Well, lets get something out of the way, linetime does not encompass the entire map no matter how you want to look at it, this would imply that the Vanishing point exists at the endpoint of not just the entire Multiverse, but the entire MultiversIty map, which needless to say, would be completely nonsensical from it's many instances of clearly existing at the end of the time dimension of a single Earth.

So off the bat, linetime is not a higher time dimension in comparison to the map, Planetime is a whole lot of Linetimes lined up perpendicularly and Cubetime is the same for Planetime.

You'd be describing 3 time dimensions (i.e. an overall rating of 1-C/8-D) for the Multiverse, not 3 time dimensions for the map. Consistent with Allen Adams scan.

Responding to the rest later.

I didn't say that line time and plane time encompass the entire map of the multiverse, but Hypertime does. These are temporal dimensions that make up Hypertime, that's all.

 

[Averroes1]

I didn't say that line time and plane time encompass the entire map of the multiverse, but Hypertime does. These are temporal dimensions that make up Hypertime, that's all.

They do not make up all of Hypertime considering there is evidently other realms outside of these three that make up Hypertime.

You are, again, ignoring my core argument here, Linetime is evidently not a time dimension, but rather a timeline (literally in the name), and it also evidently is not beyond the Multiversity map. Planetime and Cubetime are only two levels of infinity beyond that.

 

[TimeTrapperFanBoy]

They do not make up all of Hypertime considering there is evidently other realms outside of these three that make up Hypertime.

You are, again, ignoring my core argument here, Linetime is evidently not a time dimension, but rather a timeline (literally in the name), and it also evidently is not beyond the Multiversity map. Planetime and Cubetime are only two levels of infinity beyond that.

Elizio didn’t ignore your argument, he literally said that only Hypertime encompasses the Multiversity map.

 

[Averroes1]

Elizio didn’t ignore your argument, he literally said that only Hypertime encompasses the Multiversity map.

I didn't disagree with that. However he said that Planetime and Cubetime were beyond the map, something that not only isn't built up by anything, has things against it.

 

[Elizio33]

I didn't disagree with that. However he said that Planetime and Cubetime were beyond the map, something that not only isn't built up by anything, has things against it.

No, I didn't say that and I didn't ignore your argument. You're mixing things up, I just said that Hypertime encompasses the map and not line time or plane time encompasses the map.

 

[Averroes1]

No, I didn't say that and I didn't ignore your argument.

Alright then, I apologise.

Why are Cubetime and Planetime listed as being beyond the Multiversity map when they are clearly layered timelines.

 

[TimeTrapperFanBoy]

Alright then, I apologise.

Why are Cubetime and Planetime listed as being beyond the Multiversity map when they are clearly layered timelines.

Where do you see that?

I don’t see anything in the cosmology blog that aligns to this, besides Hypertime as a whole encompassing the multiverse.

 

[Elizio33]

Alright then, I apologise.

Why are Cubetime and Planetime listed as being beyond the Multiversity map when they are clearly layered timelines.

No problem at all! To answer your question, it is Hypertime which is beyond the map since it is half of the Divine Continuum. Line time, plane time and cube time are time-based layers or dimensions that constitute Hypertime according to Morrison, which is why he described Hypertime as a three-dimensional concept.

Line time refers to a linear timeline = 1 time dimension, plane time as a "two-dimensional" plane encompassing all line times = two time dimensions, and cube time as the perpendicular of plane time = 3 time dimensions.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

I don’t understand what the problem is in uniting cosmologies if they have similar concepts. Marvel cosmology is united without problems, although it has different authors, or the World of Darkness

Typing this already-rejected complaint up in big font doesn't make it any more valid.

It would probably be a good idea to make a CRT to split Marvel's cosmology if you think gathering the evidence you have is worth the effort

I would hardly say so; Ultima already proved extensively that Marvel's cosmology doesn't need to be split, besides Jim Starlin's canon, which he already split but hasn't made profiles for yet.

 

[TimeTrapperFanBoy]

Aside from cosmology stuff, did anyone called dibs on trying to improve Doctor Fate and Spectres’ profiles?

 

[Brahmatman]

This was a point made by Grant which isn't sufficient enough for how they were viewed in Neil Gaiman's writing. Even then, the Monitors can dream, die, or have a destiny. Presumably, they being in the Sphere has no correlation to their reach and power since not every being is equal in power to each other in the Sphere.

More than enough, because he had the rights to compose the entire cosmology, and it was accepted at the official level. And what's the problem? The fact that beings of higher dimensions can die does not correlate in any way with your words, trying to tie them to lower ones. The gods have a quantitative difference in strength among themselves, not a qualitative one. Yahweh may be at least infinitely times stronger than Steppenwolf, but they live on the same plane of existence.

Anti-life is the message behind the death of the Universe. Alongside its many names that would naturally occur as the Duke literally mentions the many things you can it.

Endless are beyond the gods in scope. Yahweh clearly isn't just a mere “god” his like the pantheons. He literally made Creation and defined all its laws. The Endless popped up as a side effect of that making and the gods were born after the Dream. Even then, him as Yahweh was made because humans had enough collective “dreams” to change all of reality from the beginning and end.

Well, that is, Anti-Life is such a cool thing that it is Apolipse for the gods, and Darkseid is its master?
Beyond in the context of what? That they are not classified as gods? Or that they are living concepts? Maybe yes, before the gods in general cosmology were not conceptual, but Morrison corrected this.
Yahweh created one of the multiverses, I congratulate him. New gods also create universes. Darkseid's puppets are emanations of his will, there is nothing unusual about this, because Darkseid's puppets are also multiverse platonic concepts.
People, with the help of the collective, only give a conventional image to the gods, making them real for subjective existence.

The only “dying god” in context was Darkseid. He didn't protect the Universe, he wanted to drag it all down while being the ultimate final God before he did. He was broken and wounded like how Mandrakk and Batman described him.

In context, the protection of the universe, or was Darkseid really its protector?

The Anti-Life forces submission to the user's will. It wasn't used to end the gods. That happened as a follow-up of Death of the New Gods which Final Crisis is supposed to take place after. That was what the “war in Heaven” was.

The Host of Darkseid was killed, not the entity. Superman literally talked to Darkseid in his Turner form before shattering his essence. He retreated and shortly after did Mandrakk appeared.

Anti-life can banish concepts, as demonstrated on Yahweh. And this is just one of the functions of Anti-Life; throughout many comics it has demonstrated its various abilities.
Morrison confirmed in an interview that the New Genesis Gods were killed during the war, or you can say they weren't killed by Anti-Life.

Have you read the interview with Morrison? He confirmed that Black Racer stole Darkseid's true essence, as he is the concept of death for the New Gods. What Superman is talking to is just a residual echo of Darkseid's evil.

 

[Brahmatman]

Typing this already-rejected complaint up in big font doesn't make it any more valid.

Avoiding simple questions doesn’t look very nice either

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

More than enough, because he had the rights to compose the entire cosmology, and it was accepted at the official level. And what's the problem? The fact that beings of higher dimensions can die does not correlate in any way with your words, trying to tie them to lower ones. The gods have a quantitative difference in strength among themselves, not a qualitative one. Yahweh may be at least infinitely times stronger than Steppenwolf, but they live on the same plane of existence.

Except Yahweh has not died and can just leave all of Creation whenever he desires. He can also just fix and destroy Creation at will. He very much isn't just a regular “god” and has many statements to his position on how not even Death herself can claim him.

How gods actually scale up to him has been answered throughout the whole of Sandman and Lucifer. They are nothing to him as is anything.

Well, that is, Anti-Life is such a cool thing that it is Apolipse for the gods, and Darkseid is its master?
Beyond in the context of what? That they are not classified as gods? Or that they are living concepts? Maybe yes, before the gods in general cosmology were not conceptual, but Morrison corrected this.

Yes, yet they can be depowered, can die, can change which all has nonsequential to Yahweh. Their conceptuality is very low when compared to higher orders of beings.

Yahweh created one of the multiverses, I congratulate him. New gods also create universes. Darkseid's puppets are emanations of his will, there is nothing unusual about this, because Darkseid's puppets are also multiverse platonic concepts.
People, with the help of the collective, only give a conventional image to the gods, making them real for subjective existence.

Platonic was never used right by Morrison, to begin with. A platonic concept is eternal and unchanging which Darkseid isn't.

The Presence which we will adhere to him as in replacement for Yahweh supplements energy to beings beyond the new gods to create Multiverses. At the time of Lucifer, that one Creation was “everything.” The logic is that dreams shaped everything since the beginning of time and Yahweh’s actions affected anything since the beginning. He could unmake any sort of logic as he literally willed all the rules even one with the Void.

In context, the protection of the universe, or was Darkseid really its protector?

What's your point on this? Yahweh literally did not care for anything of what he carpeted except for Michael and Lucifer and even he abandoned them. He literally doesn't protect Creation nor does he need to. Darkseid wasn't protecting anything, he wanted to drag it all down to the singularity but was left wounded by Batman.

Anti-life can banish concepts, as demonstrated on Yahweh. And this is just one of the functions of Anti-Life; throughout many comics it has demonstrated its various abilities.
Morrison confirmed in an interview that the New Genesis Gods were killed during the war, or you can say they weren't killed by Anti-Life.

Never once stated it can destroy a being of that caliber since it is part of the Source, which originated both sides: Life and Anti-Life.

Guess who killed them? The Source! The Wall implemented created a barrier between Life and Anti-Life, which would later be destroyed by the time of Final Crisis.

Have you read the interview with Morrison? He confirmed that Black Racer stole Darkseid's true essence, as he is the concept of death for the New Gods. What Superman is talking to is just a residual echo of Darkseid's evil.

Interviews are meant to be taken with a grain of salt. Superman mentions that he is dying and then shatters him. Then Darkseid retreated where Mandrakk come to pass by.

 

[Ramasugita11]

This discussion looks very exciting

 

[Brahmatman]

Except Yahweh has not died and can just leave all of Creation whenever he desires. He can also just fix and destroy Creation at will. He very much isn't just a regular “god” and has many statements to his position on how not even Death herself can claim him.

How gods actually scale up to him has been answered throughout the whole of Sandman and Lucifer. They are nothing to him as is anything.

I didn’t even write that he died in the usual sense of the word. Even the New Gods cannot die in the usual sense of understanding, collecting themselves from fragments, or trying to escape from the Source.

The new gods surpassed him because of their possession of Anti-Life and faith in them, I did not write that in their basic states they are stronger than him. On the contrary, I myself know and believe that Yhwach is the strongest in the Sphere of the Gods, with the exception of Anti-Life, or the Black Racer. But this is only a quantitative difference, and this does not mean that it cannot be surpassed, which is what happened in the Final Crisis.

Yes, yet they can be depowered, can die, can change which all has nonsequential to Yahweh. Their conceptuality is very low when compared to higher orders of beings.

There are no beings of a high order in the Sphere of the Gods; they are all equal on the same plane of existence.

Platonic was never used right by Morrison, to begin with. A platonic concept is eternal and unchanging which Darkseid isn't.

The Presence which we will adhere to him as in replacement for Yahweh supplements energy to beings beyond the new gods to create Multiverses. At the time of Lucifer, that one Creation was “everything.” The logic is that dreams shaped everything since the beginning of time and Yahweh’s actions affected anything since the beginning. He could unmake any sort of logic as he literally willed all the rules even one with the Void.

This is a very strange statement. Terms in comics or other fictional universes do not have to be used correctly, they are not a scientific article, but only the thoughts of the authors, who are not necessarily philosophers, taking only indirect ideas for their works. Thus, it can be stated that in real life there are no creatures capable of destroying the multiverse, which means it is unrealistic for comics.
Yes, and the claim is incomprehensible, Darkseid is larger than the multiverse in size, and older than time, some part, although it is logical that not all, is used from Plato’s descriptions

What difference does it make what happened before? The Source used to not be an absolute, but only showed itself as walls around ordinary universes, but thanks to a change in the hierarchical system and a character census, it became the strongest being in cosmology, along with the Unknowable and the Overvoid. What was previously interpreted as Yahweh being the strongest and going beyond the Dc cosmology is false for what comes next

What's your point on this? Yahweh literally did not care for anything of what he carpeted except for Michael and Lucifer and even he abandoned them. He literally doesn't protect Creation nor does he need to. Darkseid wasn't protecting anything, he wanted to drag it all down to the singularity but was left wounded by Batman.

He did not protect in the truest sense of the word when he descended into the universe. This was done by angels, who are emanations of his will or man-made creations. But we were talking about a context to which Darkseid is absolutely inappropriate

Never once stated it can destroy a being of that caliber since it is part of the Source, which originated both sides: Life and Anti-Life.

Guess who killed them? The Source! The Wall implemented created a barrier between Life and Anti-Life, which would later be destroyed by the time of Final Crisis.

This is confirmed by Gaiman's comic. The Source is an absolute being, so why not.
Within the framework of Morrison's comics, it was Darkseid who killed the New Gods, since he called Starlin's comic a secondary canon, Apocrypha, only a partial description of huge cosmic events.

Interviews are meant to be taken with a grain of salt. Superman mentions that he is dying and then shatters him. Then Darkseid retreated where Mandrakk come to pass by.

The interview does not contradict the comic, where before Darkseid was defeated, he was captured by Black Racer. Well, the author’s opinion will still be more important than the reader’s opinion. I will never listen to what people write to me on the Internet that go against the opinion of the author, who clearly knows better what he writes


NRAMA: Superman and Darkseid - for those of us who didn't attend night classes on New Genesis...despite being shot through the heart, Darkseid is still alive, he's taking aim at Orion to basically start the whole story, and the Flashes lead the Black racer to him...and that kills him? I feel a little slow here, but when did he start falling through the multiverses?

GM: Again, I don’t think you need to know anything about New Genesis or any other information apart from what’s in the story. Darkseid wasn’t shot in the heart. We all know Batman doesn’t kill people, hasn’t killed people for 70 years and isn’t about to start here. It’s a big enough deal for Batman to pick up a gun. He winged Turpin knowing that the Radion in the bullet would be enough to poison Darkseid’s divine essence. Radion only kills gods after all. It slays idea After that shot, Darkseid is dying, just as someone with radiation poisoning might slowly expire, as Superman explains in #7. The Black Racer drags him strugs.gling away into oblivion over the course of that issue until nothing remains but the fading, ghost-echoes of his malice.

Darkseid started falling through the universe after the event we experienced as The Death of The New Gods. He fell backwards through time and wound up in a human body, on Earth, in the Mister Miracle series back in 2005.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Avoiding simple questions doesn’t look very nice either

The "simple questions" haven't been avoided, they've been answered.

 

[Brahmatman]

The "simple questions" haven't been avoided, they've been answered.

Well, I don’t regard answers in the style of guess it yourself or google it on the Internet as good

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Well, I don’t regard answers in the style of guess it yourself or google it on the Internet as good

That's not what we've given you.

 

[Ramasugita11]

Except Yahweh has not died and can just leave all of Creation whenever he desires. He can also just fix and destroy Creation at will. He very much isn't just a regular “god” and has many statements to his position on how not even Death herself can claim him.

How gods actually scale up to him has been answered throughout the whole of Sandman and Lucifer. They are nothing to him as is anything.

Yes, yet they can be depowered, can die, can change which all has nonsequential to Yahweh. Their conceptuality is very low when compared to higher orders of beings.

Platonic was never used right by Morrison, to begin with. A platonic concept is eternal and unchanging which Darkseid isn't.

The Presence which we will adhere to him as in replacement for Yahweh supplements energy to beings beyond the new gods to create Multiverses. At the time of Lucifer, that one Creation was “everything.” The logic is that dreams shaped everything since the beginning of time and Yahweh’s actions affected anything since the beginning. He could unmake any sort of logic as he literally willed all the rules even one with the Void.

What's your point on this? Yahweh literally did not care for anything of what he carpeted except for Michael and Lucifer and even he abandoned them. He literally doesn't protect Creation nor does he need to. Darkseid wasn't protecting anything, he wanted to drag it all down to the singularity but was left wounded by Batman.

Never once stated it can destroy a being of that caliber since it is part of the Source, which originated both sides: Life and Anti-Life.

Guess who killed them? The Source! The Wall implemented created a barrier between Life and Anti-Life, which would later be destroyed by the time of Final Crisis.

Interviews are meant to be taken with a grain of salt. Superman mentions that he is dying and then shatters him. Then Darkseid retreated where Mandrakk come to pass by.

I told you, the concept of divinity only exists in the sphere of the gods. The statement that I am infinite, I am omnipotent only applies in their area/place.
Lower dimensions are limited when compared to higher dimensions and that is normal.

You haven't proven the reason why God/smile or Yahweh is above the sixth dimension

 

[Brahmatman]

You haven't proven the reason why God/smile or Yahweh is above the sixth dimension

They are not there. This is a strong misconception that I see often.

 

[Brahmatman]

That's not what we've given you.

We're going in circles again

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

We're going in circles again

You will get nowhere by behaving like this.

 

[Ramasugita11]

Stop acting like a child, if you want to argue just provide feats/proof in comics or whatever

#edit
if you can't, just look at it, just watch without talking

 

[Deleted member 30746]

I told you, the concept of divinity only exists in the sphere of the gods. The statement that I am infinite, I am omnipotent only applies in their area/place.
Lower dimensions are limited when compared to higher dimensions and that is normal.

You haven't proven the reason why God/smile or Yahweh is above the sixth dimension

This does not need to be proven. Neither Yahweh nor Smile were written as being restricted to any one realm. They are all-encompassing figures as a whole.

What you call the Sixth Dimension is a plane of reality that lies at the edges of the universe and transcends everything else. The aleph region in the Lucifer series is the extreme limit of the universe where everything can be observed. Do you think this realm protected by the Source covers a single realm or plane? "Lucifer trivializes the Source beyond the Sixth Dimension." Do you think his comment makes sense based on this statement? Or Silence, which is a realm in itself, is not the infinite universe or realm but contains the creation (infinite custom) that defines everything. Snyder makes the description of the two Voids (void and overvoid) similar. This thing we call composite hierarchy causes so many irrelevant comments that please give up this nonsense.

 

[Ramasugita11]

This does not need to be proven. Neither Yahweh nor Smile were written as being restricted to any one realm. They are all-encompassing figures as a whole.

What you call the Sixth Dimension is a plane of reality that lies at the edges of the universe and transcends everything else. The aleph region in the Lucifer series is the extreme limit of the universe where everything can be observed. Do you think this realm protected by the Source covers a single realm or plane? "Lucifer trivializes the Source beyond the Sixth Dimension." Do you think his comment makes sense based on this statement? Or Silence, which is a realm in itself, is not the infinite universe or realm but contains the creation (infinite custom) that defines everything. Snyder makes the description of the two Voids (void and overvoid) similar. This thing we call composite hierarchy causes so many irrelevant comments that please give up this nonsense.

Do you have any proof of them being stated outside of the source?

Edges of the universe? Like this? [Here]
Wow braniac level [Here]
I mean, the source you mean is the boundary of the universe in the multiverse, by crossing it we can know that he will see a different world from the multiverse.

There are various kinds of voids, if you want to say the void in lucifer 2000, then it describes the void outside of creation. physical world? Yes, Silver City? maybe, it is just a creation in Yahweh's domain, but not the underworld or other. Because in the gods of other religions, there is a sea of brahma, a void outside the plan of Yahweh [Here]

Archetype realms only in sphere of the gods, Gods are archetypes

Realms of archetypal powers

As humanity grew, it’s beliefs grew in tandem. Hardening into stricter forms. The realm around her (i.e., the Sphere of the Gods) began to splinter off into bold new forms. Great houses to pantheons of incredible gods. Each with their own mysteries and power.”

“This universe is built on belief. The little mortals believe in gods and so the gods exist.”

The concept of gods/archetypes that humans worship does not exist in the higher plane like 6th dimension, 5th dimension, monitor sphere or the overvoid

Only in the sphere of the gods [this is also a higher plane, but the world above it does not apply the concept of gods that humans worship].

 

[Xearesay]

Neither Yahweh nor Smile were written as being restricted to any one realm. They are all-encompassing figures as a whole.

That Smile is all encompassing but the Presence is not. These two entities are not the same and aren’t on the same scope either, so it’s pretty unfair to compare them. That Smile being is way beyond The Presence. The Presence caps at the Sphere of Gods and he is probably not even be the strongest being in there. The entire Sphere of Gods is basically an expression of humanities Collective Unconscious, and there are beings manifested from humanities CU that the Presence literally can’t kill.