Vegeta (Saiyan Saga) VS Gaara (New Era) (14-11-0) (GRACE)

[Arnoldstone18]

I vote Vegeta via Dirty Fireworks, Oozaru and the combination of other miscellaneous shit such as: (Better Skill scaling off Goku, Danmaku to break down sand that is superior but not invulnerable, Flight, Accelerated Development, Better situation stamina wise etc.)

All Vegeta needs is one good hit and it’s over.

 

[omegabronic]

pretty sure you can't scale skill like that, and the accelerated development would not do much here honestly

 

[SlendVeny]

If that was all it took to stop dirty fireworks,it wouldnt pop people like a baloon, it would cause a normal explosion outside the foe


Is not like vegeta is pointing at their insides

He points at someone, and they explode from the inside. Easy.

 

[SlendVeny]

The whole wincon for Gaara was assuming he'd win before Vegeta uses the fake moon to become an Ape, but if he already starts as an Ape, Gaara has no way of winning tmk.

LS stomp is still a wincon

 

[Arnoldstone18]

pretty sure you can't scale skill like that, and the accelerated development would not do much here honestly

you can, he kept up with Goku who would’ve skill ****** him if Vegeta wasn’t as good as a fighter

 

[Fezzih_007]

he has the entire desert at his disposal, i think i could have worded better, he can cover good kilometers with it tho

But can he bring the entire desert to the air?

he did that in the end of a fight that he was beaten up and almost unconscious

I might remenbering wrong here, but he block his entire village from the explosion, and then fell unconscious because of it, right?

sand protects without his attention, it is instinctive, he has more than enough to do it constantly, he can spam as much as vegeta

While they both flying he have more than enough sand? And if he spams, Vegeta durability gonna take care of that, while Gaara shield is gonna be pased with little difficulty. And Vegeta can also use a charge beam to penetrate him defenses.

you just argued that he would fly realy far away, how big is this AoE blast?

My response is from you arguing that Gaara can trow him in the ground, and engulf him in sand, which Vegeta gonna do a AoE this big

If Gaara is anoying enough he pottentialy gonna do this.

not really, the scouter detects ki, denki is not ki but a small part of what makes ki, well ki, so it is not comparable to this situation

But is still Ki, even if is a small part.

 

[Myguy]

Ok im confused

Op states that vegeta starts at base but at the same time sba makes so vegeta starts and ozooaru?...

This thread is honestly a mess

 

[Fezzih_007]

Ok im confused

Op states that vegeta starts at base but at the same time sba makes so vegeta starts and ozooaru?...

This thread is honestly a mess

He starts at base, see the moon, transform and the battle starts.
Not that hard.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Wait how does Gaara stop Vegeta from blowing him up from inside?

 

[omegabronic]

you can, he kept up with Goku who would’ve skill ****** him if Vegeta wasn’t as good as a fighter

you don't need same skill to keep up with someone, vegeta was much stronger than goku during that time

But can he bring the entire desert to the air?

well no

I might remenbering wrong here, but he block his entire village from the explosion, and then fell unconscious because of it, right?

nope, he blocked after receiving severe damage from deidara and then still was able to remove all of the sand from above the village

While they both flying he have more than enough sand? And if he spams, Vegeta durability gonna take care of that, while Gaara shield is gonna be pased with little difficulty. And Vegeta can also use a charge beam to penetrate him defenses.

he can spam shields i mean, and if the sand grabs vegeta gaara can easily restrain him with advantage in lifting strength

My response is from you arguing that Gaara can trow him in the ground, and engulf him in sand, which Vegeta gonna do a AoE this big

still not sure if vegeta can do that since it is a nappa technique, or even if he can, i isn't in character for him to do such a thing

But is still Ki, even if is a small part.

it is not a small part of ki, it straight up isn't ki, just like how you is not atoms just because they make up you

Ok im confused

Op states that vegeta starts at base but at the same time sba makes so vegeta starts and ozooaru?...

This thread is honestly a mess

tbh i kind of agree, the rules of the thread should have been better thought out by the op

He starts at base, see the moon, transform and the battle starts.
Not that hard.

things is, the op mention a scene of vegeta taking time analizing gaara, if there was a moon he would have a been an oozaru the moment he arrived on the battlefield

 

[omegabronic]

Wait how does Gaara stop Vegeta from blowing him up from inside?

some alternatives, 1 scouter senses gaara's power of his chackra and vegeta thinks that he is very strong and doesn't do that, 2 vegeta already decided to fight gaara head on as per the op and wouldn't do that and instead would fight normaly and 3 the sand instinctively protects from attacks, the moment vegeta charges ki to do that the sand would get in the way, also the sand is constantly around gaara, so vegeta would not have much luck in pointing at him while avoiding the sand

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

some alternatives, 1 scouter senses gaara's power of his chackra and vegeta thinks that he is very strong and doesn't do that, 2 vegeta already decided to fight gaara head on as per the op and wouldn't do that and instead would fight normaly and 3 the sand instinctively protects from attacks, the moment vegeta charges ki to do that the sand would get in the way, also the sand is constantly around gaara, so vegeta would not have much luck in pointing at him while avoiding the sand

First part makes sense

Second part I don’t see how sand would help Gaara from being blown up from inside

 

[omegabronic]

First part makes sense

Second part I don’t see how sand would help Gaara from being blown up from inside

since you agree with first part, i will not go back and forth again to avoid making this even longer

does this aways happens in db vs naruto threads?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

SBA doesn’t make Vegeta start at Oozaru. It makes it so that he can have access to all his forms if need be. Don’t you have to look at the moon to transform?

 

[SlendVeny]

Wait how does Gaara stop Vegeta from blowing him up from inside?

No evidence Vegeta would use that

 

[SlendVeny]

First part makes sense

Second part I don’t see how sand would help Gaara from being blown up from inside

He can hit Vegeta's hands before he moves.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

No evidence Vegeta would use that

Probably not if Vegetas scouter detected Gaara to be weaker

He can hit Vegeta's hands before he moves.

He wouldn’t know what he was doing

 

[omegabronic]

Probably not if Vegetas scouter detected Gaara to be weaker

well, the scouter measures ki, and due to verse equalization he measures chakcra as well, and gaara has 5-B chackra

 

[SlendVeny]

well, the scouter measures ki, and due to verse equalization he measures chakcra as well, and gaara has 5-B chackra

Well, it's more that he would detect the sand, like Raditz detecting the Special Beam Cannon.

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

Well, it's more that he would detect the sand, like Raditz detecting the Special Beam Cannon.

Wasn't Raditz detecting Piccolo's energy as he formed or fired the Special Beam Cannon and not the blast itself?

 

[SlendVeny]

Wasn't Raditz detecting Piccolo's energy as he formed or fired the Special Beam Cannon and not the blast itself?

Yeah. So Vegeta would detect the chakra Gaara was putting inside the sand.

 

[omegabronic]

Well, it's more that he would detect the sand, like Raditz detecting the Special Beam Cannon.

I mean, the chackra in the sand comes from gaara, gara is the oke with 5-B power, it just doesn't scale to his physicals

 

[Fezzih_007]

well no

So like, If they are in the air, Gaara would probally run out of sand then, even If there's a enormous desert below them.
And Vegeta would probally be like:
"I noticed you attack with Sand, so what happens If i do this!"
Vegeta trows a enormous Ball of energy to the ground below
"What?!!" Gaara exclaim in shock, as a huge explosion occurs on the ground below making Gaara protect himself from the shockwaves.

When the explosion os finished, Gaara looks down below and noticed...the desert is gone.

"If you use sand as your main weapon, all i have to do is destroy the source of your attacks HAHAHAHAH!!!!!" laughs Vegeta, mocking Gaara.

nope, he blocked after receiving severe damage from deidara and then still was able to remove all of the sand from above the village

Oh ok then.

he can spam shields i mean, and if the sand grabs vegeta gaara can easily restrain him with advantage in lifting strength

I feel like is unfair to use lifting strenght, since his tier is unkown.
And If Gaara tries to do that, vegeta can destroy the sand.
And spam shields is gonna be difficulty because of AP, he gonna eventualy not be able to keep up.

still not sure if vegeta can do that since it is a nappa technique, or even if he can, i isn't in character for him to do such a thing

Is not nescessary a AoE this big, he can do a minor one with a larger enough scale to hit Gaara.

 

[GarrixianXD]

I think he means the range

What does SBA have to do with this? The OP stated Vegeta starts in base, and has access to his Oozaru form (via the Artificial Moon). He still is able to access the form even without the moon, no?

 

[omegabronic]

So like, If they are in the air, Gaara would probally run out of sand then
even If there's a enormous desert below them.
And Vegeta would probally be like:
"I noticed you attack with Sand, so what happens If i do this!"
Vegeta trows a enormous Ball of energy to the ground below
"What?!!" Gaara exclaim in shock, as a huge explosion occurs on the ground below making Gaara protect himself from the shockwaves.

When the explosion os finished, Gaara looks down below and noticed...the desert is gone.

"If you use sand as your main weapon, all i have to do is destroy the source of your attacks HAHAHAHAH!!!!!" laughs Vegeta, mocking Gaara.

You know that the sand is as fast as gaara and as such faster then vegeta right? He would not have time to prepare such attack, he stops to charge and the sand is in his ass choking and restraining him, plus he doesn't have enough ap to completely destroy gaara's sand, so that would just blow the sand up in the air making it easier for gaara to use it against him
plus i don't think that vegeta in character is this strategic

I feel like is unfair to use lifting strenght, since his tier is unkown.

that is not a reason to not consider it, vegeta would be above kid goku class K, we can consider that

And If Gaara tries to do that, vegeta can destroy the sand.

you know that you can't really destroy sand right? He would just disperse it, not destroy it, plus he wouldn't have the ap to completely destroy since the ap gap is not that big

And spam shields is gonna be difficulty because of AP, he gonna eventualy not be able to keep up.

he has an entire dessert to spam as much as he wants, ap is not important for that, specially when the sand can reform itself easily enough

Is not nescessary a AoE this big, he can do a minor one with a larger enough scale to hit Gaara.

Again, no reason to assume that he could do one big enough to do that

 

[Fezzih_007]

You know that the sand is as fast as gaara and as such faster then vegeta right?

Not really that much faster, since the 10X amp speed should be a thing.

He would not have time to prepare such attack, he stops to charge and the sand is in his ass choking and restraining him

The charge takes like, 3 seconds

, plus he doesn't have enough ap to completely destroy gaara's sand, so that would just blow the sand up in the air making it easier for gaara to use it against him

That's not how explosion works at all, the sand would be blow away by the sides, not upwards.
And unless the entire desert is infused with Gaara chakra, he can destroy most of It.

plus i don't think that vegeta in character is this strategic

Blowing up the source of power of a character is a thing that a combat pragmastic like Vegeta would definitily do, is not even a that hard of strategy, is just destroying something.
The chances of him trying to do that is high.

that is not a reason to not consider it, vegeta would be above kid goku class K, we can consider that

By How much? We don't even know to make a accuratte decision here.

you know that you can't really destroy sand right?

But you can? What's you source on that?

He would just disperse it, not destroy it, plus he wouldn't have the ap to completely destroy since the ap gap is not that big

The normal sand of the desert he can.

he has an entire dessert to spam as much as he wants, ap is not important for that, specially when the sand can reform itself easily enough

Vegeta gonna tire him out eventualy.

Again, no reason to assume that he could do one big enough to do that

Besides him being stronger than Nappa, so he can cause a bigger explosion, no reason to assume.

 

[SlendVeny]

So like, If they are in the air, Gaara would probally run out of sand then, even If there's a enormous desert below them.
And Vegeta would probally be like:
"I noticed you attack with Sand, so what happens If i do this!"
Vegeta trows a enormous Ball of energy to the ground below
"What?!!" Gaara exclaim in shock, as a huge explosion occurs on the ground below making Gaara protect himself from the shockwaves.

Gaara would not show surprise, also he could just deflect the ki blast.

When the explosion os finished, Gaara looks down below and noticed...the desert is gone.

"If you use sand as your main weapon, all i have to do is destroy the source of your attacks HAHAHAHAH!!!!!" laughs Vegeta, mocking Gaara.

If the sand is gone, he can make more by breaking rocks, or control metal from the ground.

I feel like is unfair to use lifting strenght, since his tier is unkown.

L

And If Gaara tries to do that, vegeta can destroy the sand.
And spam shields is gonna be difficulty because of AP, he gonna eventualy not be able to keep up.

The shields are a separate consciousness.

 

[omegabronic]

Not really that much faster, since the 10X amp speed should be a thing.

Not accepted as that much here

The charge takes like, 3 seconds

And gaara's sand only needs 1 to get a hold of him

That's not how explosion works at all, the sand would be blow away by the sides, not upwards.

explosion launch things upwards, that it what it does

And unless the entire desert is infused with Gaara chakra, he can destroy most of It.

he doesn't have the range to do so, plus gaara can just make more sand by going underground and mining the minerals of the Earth

Blowing up the source of power of a character is a thing that a combat pragmastic like Vegeta would definitily do, is not even a that hard of strategy, is just destroying something.
The chances of him trying to do that is high.

Of an entire dessert? I really don't see how sayan saga vegeta would think of that

By How much? We don't even know to make a accuratte decision here.

well above, unquantifiably so, yet still bellow gaara's class G

But you can? What's you source on that?

sand is not one solid object, it is multiple particles, if you cause an explosion most of it will be blow into the air

The normal sand of the desert he can.

read above, he would need to be able to do that with gaara's sand first

Vegeta gonna tire him out eventualy.

Vegeta is not winning the stamina battle against gaara here, dude can fight for days straight

Besides him being stronger than Nappa, so he can cause a bigger explosion, no reason to assume.

He doesn't have that technique to do so, being stronger doesn't mean that you can use someone else's techniques

 

[SlendVeny]

Not really that much faster, since the 10X amp speed should be a thing.

But it isn't, so...

The charge takes like, 3 seconds

3 seconds is enough for Gaara to break his arms like Rock Lee.

Blowing up the source of power of a character is a thing that a combat pragmastic like Vegeta would definitily do, is not even a that hard of strategy, is just destroying something.
The chances of him trying to do that is high.

Wouldn't that stand against Saiyan Pride?

By How much? We don't even know to make a accuratte decision here.

No proof he has LS on par with Gaara

Vegeta gonna tire him out eventualy.

Gaara gonna tire out his far weaker opponent faster.

 

[Padaruyos]

Just updated the vote tally, let me know if I missed some votes.

8-8-0 currently

Vegeta wins and goes to invade Konoha: @Myguy @Fezzih_007 @VinnyXD @Arkenis @GarrixianXD @ZoroNotZolo @Arnoldstone18 @FireSwordHero
Gaara wins: @YoutubeForKing @Mickey1940 @jojo123 @YungManzi @SlendVeny @omegabronic @Nierre @RanaProGamer
Inconclusive:

 

[Padaruyos]

Also perhaps I should clarify some of the battle settings.
Due to SBA rules, this battle will start in the desert at midnight during a full-moon. This allows Vegeta to become a Great Ape, however he does not immediately start with it. A Saiyan still needs to look at the moon directly to become one, Vegeta will need to actively look at the moon to become a Great Ape. But as per rules, if Vegeta completely stomps Gaara with it, I will change the setting.

Regarding scouters, they work by detecting a Ki signature and measuring it's intensity, and they do so automatically. If they see a noteworthy power level, they will alert the user regarding said power level, stating the number and the distance between them and the PL source. Vegeta will know Gaara's PL since his scouter detects it immediately. Due to verse equalization, Chakra will be equalized with Ki. All of Gaara's sand based moves are powered by his Chakra, meaning his Chakra is strong enough to make his sand have 5-B durability and AP. Meaning his Chakra itself is 5-B level, even if that didn't scale to his physical capabilities. In this VS match, the Scouter will detect and measure Gaara's Chakra intensity, rather than measuring Gaara's actual physical durability. Since Gaara doesn't have any ability to suppress his chakra, if we assume power levels are linear with AP during Saiyan Saga with Baseline 5-B being 18000, Vegeta will detect a Power Level of 47362 from Gaara.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Scouters have never been shown to detect power in things that aren't life forms. So Vegeta will have to detect Ki/Chakra used to enhance Gaara's body NOT Ki/Chakra infused sand.

What has been said in response to this aside incredulity?

 

[omegabronic]

Just updated the vote tally, let me know if I missed some votes.

8-8-0 currently

Vegeta wins and goes to invade Konoha: @Myguy @Fezzih_007 @VinnyXD @Arkenis @GarrixianXD @ZoroNotZolo @Arnoldstone18 @FireSwordHero
Gaara wins: @YoutubeForKing @Mickey1940 @jojo123 @YungManzi @SlendVeny @omegabronic @Nierre @RanaProGamer
Inconclusive:

If it hits 48 hours since the last vote this can be added as inconclusive then

 

[Padaruyos]

Scouters have never been shown to detect power in things that aren't life forms. So Vegeta will have to detect Ki/Chakra used to enhance Gaara's body NOT Ki/Chakra infused sand.

What has been said in response to this aside incredulity?

Scouters detect Ki (or Chakra in this case). Whether that Ki is in someone's body, or concentrated in a specific technique or an object, the scouter can read it.

We do know that in DB specific Ki techniques can have a different PL from the user, and the scouter can read that specific technique's PL. (Piccolo's Makankosappo for example). It doesn't always have to come from the life form itself. Just detecting the energy from the technique itself is enough. If Naruto throws a Rasenshuriken, the scouter would be able to detect its PL.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Not accepted as that much here

I mean, he atleast GET faster than a 5x speed amp since Goku said that not even a Kaioken times 5 would help against his speed.
I gonna get the scan.

And gaara's sand only needs 1 to get a hold of him

Really don't stop Vegeta from trowing the attack, but okay.

explosion launch things upwards, that it what it does

Ok, you technically correct, but the attacks here is gonna destroy the sand, not lauch upwards.

he doesn't have the range to do so

Planetary in range with Ki Blast, what?

, plus gaara can just make more sand by going underground and mining the minerals of the Earth

Midbattle, against a opponent that stronger and faster than him, making more sand is not really a good strategy

Of an entire dessert? I really don't see how sayan saga vegeta would think of that

I do see, so we have to agree to disagree here.

well above, unquantifiably so, yet still bellow gaara's class G

Eh,

sand is not one solid object, it is multiple particles,

Yeah, that can be destroyed, Vegeta gonna incinerated the sand

if you cause an explosion most of it will be blow into the air

Only If i cause a explosion downwards, in this case, Vegeta Will blow up the sand Mid Air, making Go to the sides too, is not most of It.

Vegeta is not winning the stamina battle against gaara here, dude can fight for days straight

Against a opponent stronger than him?

He doesn't have that technique to do so, being stronger doesn't mean that you can use someone else's techniques

Is not Nappa technique being "He lift his finger, and causes a city destruction" the technique Volcano Explosion, is just him causing a big AoE, how big is up to him to decide. Is not because of a technique.
Vegeta is stronger than him, so he can cause a even more bigger AoE attack.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Scouters detect Ki (or Chakra in this case). Whether that Ki is in someone's body, or concentrated in a specific technique or an object, the scouter can read it.

I gonna need a source on that one because

We do know that in DB specific Ki techniques can have a different PL from the user, and the scouter can read that specific technique's PL. (Piccolo's Makankosappo for example). It doesn't always have to come from the life form itself. Just detecting the energy from the technique itself is enough. If Naruto throws a Rasenshuriken, the scouter would be able to detect its PL.

That's not even remotely comparable.

 

[omegabronic]

Scouters have never been shown to detect power in things that aren't life forms. So Vegeta will have to detect Ki/Chakra used to enhance Gaara's body NOT Ki/Chakra infused sand.

What has been said in response to this aside incredulity?

The 5-B chackra is from gaara, not from his sand, the scouter does not detect strenght, it detects ki/energy, gaara's energy is 5-B so it will detect as such

 

[Padaruyos]

I gonna need a source on that one because

That's not even remotely comparable.

Scouters detect Ki and measure how intense it is. More ki means stronger punches, higher speed (as long as it's not accompined with a huge increase in mass), stronger energy blasts etc. Which is why the numbers change when someone powers up or suppresses their ki. Specific techniques have different PL from the user's normal PL due to unique properties the technique may have or simply a long charge time (Makankosappo). The scouters are capable of detecting that the Makankosappo/Kamehameha PL is different than Piccolo's/Goku's normal PL, meaning that Scouters can pick up Ki in objects other than lifeforms. Meaning it can detect Chakra in Gaara's sand.

 

[omegabronic]

I mean, he atleast GET faster than a 5x speed amp since Goku said that not even a Kaioken times 5 would help against his speed.
I gonna get the scan.

Ok

Really don't stop Vegeta from trowing the attack, but okay.

Yes it does, gaara cab redirect his hand and put him a deadlock

Ok, you technically correct, but the attacks here is gonna destroy the sand, not lauch upwards.

In turn creating more dust and sand in the process since that is what sand is, small fragments of stuff

Planetary in range with Ki Blast, what?

Explosion range

Midbattle, against a opponent that stronger and faster than him, making more sand is not really a good strategy

kimimaro was both of those things and he did that easily enough, regardless vegeta is not faster

I do see, so we have to agree to disagree here.

okay fair enough

Eh,

,hE

Yeah, that can be destroyed, Vegeta gonna incinerated the sand

ki explodes, explodes causes fragmentantion, which creates smapl fragments, which create sand

Only If i cause a explosion downwards, in this case, Vegeta Will blow up the sand Mid Air, making Go to the sides too, is not most of It.

to the side and also up in a diagonal angle i meant

Against a opponent stronger than him?

1 strenght doesn't matter for stamina and 2 he fought nuneroua people stronger than him, he fought madara for hours, who was far stronger than him and still had energy fight much oura later in the final act of the war

Is not Nappa technique being "He lift his finger, and causes a city destruction" the technique Volcano Explosion, is just him causing a big AoE, how big is up to him to decide. Is not because of a technique.
Vegeta is stronger than him, so he can cause a even more bigger AoE attack.

Dunno man, your description is pretty much describing a technique

 

[Fezzih_007]

Ok

R for reload

Yes it does, gaara cab redirect his hand and put him a deadlock

Vegeta gonna Dodge that and trow the attack anyway.
And is not like Gaara can do that too.

In turn creating more dust and sand in the process since that is what sand is, small fragments of stuff

So the sand gonna became smaler and even less, i don't see how Gaara is gonna benefit from this.

Explosion range

Yeah, is planetary the range, what are you talking about?

kimimaro was both of those things and he did that easily enough, regardless vegeta is not faster

Man, i have to rewatch Naruto because i don't remember, but okay then.

,hE

I feel like abusing the fact that Vegeta tier is unkown so technically Gaara is stronger is kinda of unfair, but i probally would do the same with another character, so i gonna let you have this.

ki explodes, explodes causes fragmentantion, which creates smapl fragments, which create sand

Ki destroy too, don't just explodes.

to the side and also up in a diagonal angle i meant

Ok

1 strenght doesn't matter for stamina and 2 he fought nuneroua people stronger than him, he fought madara for hours, who was far stronger than him and still had energy fight much oura later in the final act of the war

Ah whatever then.

Dunno man, your description is pretty much describing a technique

It is, is just don't nescessary does the thing because is arbitrary