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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

DarkDragonMedeus said:
I am aware of that upload, and also shared it to quite a few people. But it was agreed it didn't really show much evidence. And Blitz apparently sounds exactly like ImagineBreaker did in his YouTube video. Some people can sound different via voice acting, and it's not like a typical discord conversation where it is common place for people to talk over each other by accident. There is like a pause between each person speaking.

Plus, as AKM said, it isn't something that should be brought up every 6 months and it is best to trust Fandom about the Email Address overlap lists.
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So I looked into this just to see what this is about (I looked through the message wall which took some time) and honestly I don't see where you're getting this from. It would be one thing if Geb wasn't showing anything and just making claims (which can be dismissed via hitchens razor) but he's showing evidence through recordings of him talking to these people. Can you elaborate on why it doesn't show much evidence and how? When I was shown this in Geb's server (and in dm) the guy called "ImagineBreaker" didn't sound like "Blitz." Your argument implies that you think Imagine is Blitz because "some people can sound different via voice acting" yet you have no evidence to support that it's the same voice in different tones (somebody in Geb's servers pointed this out) and the last voice sounds too different to be the same.

Do these honestly sound the same to you?





Can you even prove beyond reasonable doubt that ImagineBreaker is Blitz and Red? Never mind your reasoning for why he's voice acting is unclean, from what I see the reason they don't talk over each other is because they have the patience to let each other finish, you can kind of see this is how Geburah operates if you actually watch his videos (like this here: ) he doesn't really talk over people unless he feels he has to, there's a pause between speeches at some points and I don't see why these would even be inherently connected you are being unnecessarily skeptical over small details.

Something else that was pointed out was why would you trust a sketchy email list over voices? Your only defense for using them is essentially that they come from an authority and trusting authorities over explicit recorded evidence would most certainly be appeal to authority, it'd be like if a cop said he heard a gunshot when the camera and audio shows that a balloon popped. The likelihood that the recorded evidence is forged is so low it shouldn't even be considered, for Blitz he had witnesses there so it's best to go to them instead of making things up as you go along. From what I'm seeing in Antvasima's message wall is that it was found that these accounts have nothing in common within fandom and this is according to yourself so you're grasping straws here.

I'm not saying Geb should be unbanned but the points against him should at least be better than this. Your arguments hinges entirely on assumptions and claims you can't prove (and I doubt you're even sure of). As I said you yourself said that Fandom found nothing that makes him guilty of anything and that's the same authority you've been relying on through this whole case: https://community.fandom.com/wiki/M...eadId=4400000000003416005#4400000000012184828

Also I'm wondering something and that's this: Geb mentioned that he sent you confirmation emails from other emails, what did they say? (if you can reveal) because I noticed that when looking through the message wall you kind of ignored this.

I'm curious as to what your response will be to this but Geb's arguments are much better and at the very least more consistent than yours (yet again I've seen his evidence and not yours, so if you could send me it I could review it and judge who's more credible).
 
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ThatBusyDude said:
So I looked into this just to see what this is about (I looked through the message wall which took some time) and honestly I don't see where you're getting this from. It would be one thing if Geb wasn't showing anything and just making claims (which can be dismissed via hitchens razor) but he's showing evidence through recordings of him talking to these people. Can you elaborate on why it doesn't show much evidence and how? When I was shown this in Geb's server (and in dm) the guy called "ImagineBreaker" didn't sound like "Blitz." Your argument implies that you think Imagine is Blitz because "some people can sound different via voice acting" yet you have no evidence to support that it's the same voice in different tones (somebody in Geb's servers pointed this out) and the last voice sounds too different to be the same.

Do these honestly sound the same to you?





Can you even prove beyond reasonable doubt that ImagineBreaker is Blitz and Red? Never mind your reasoning for why he's voice acting is unclean, from what I see the reason they don't talk over each other is because they have the patience to let each other finish, you can kind of see this is how Geburah operates if you actually watch his videos (like this here: ) he doesn't really talk over people unless he feels he has to, there's a pause between speeches at some points and I don't see why these would even be inherently connected you are being unnecessarily skeptical over small details.

Something else that was pointed out was why would you trust a sketchy email list over voices? Your only defense for using them is essentially that they come from an authority and trusting authorities over explicit recorded evidence would most certainly be appeal to authority, it'd be like if a cop said he heard a gunshot when the camera and audio shows that a balloon popped. The likelihood that the recorded evidence is forged is so low it shouldn't even be considered, for Blitz he had witnesses there so it's best to go to them instead of making things up as you go along. From what I'm seeing in Antvasima's message wall is that it was found that these accounts have nothing in common within fandom and this is according to yourself so you're grasping straws here.

I'm not saying Geb should be unbanned but the points against him should at least be better than this. Your arguments hinges entirely on assumptions and claims you can't prove (and I doubt you're even sure of). As I said you yourself said that Fandom found nothing that makes him guilty of anything and that's the same authority you've been relying on through this whole case: https://community.fandom.com/wiki/M...eadId=4400000000003416005#4400000000012184828

Also I'm wondering something and that's this: Geb mentioned that he sent you confirmation emails from other emails, what did they say? (if you can reveal) because I noticed that when looking through the message wall you kind of ignored this.

I'm curious as to what your response will be to this but Geb's arguments are much better and at the very least more consistent than yours (yet again I've seen his evidence and not yours, so if you could send me it I could review it and judge who's more credible).
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First of all, back in summer 2020, the Bureaucrats and Super Mod were given a list of duplicate accounts with an Email Address overlap. It is very reliable, and whether or not ZaStando, Blitz, and Red are different people or not. It does not change the fact that they had a shared Email Address back then. And anyone could easily log to their accounts to change their Email Address. Also, I'm not saying he "Needs to talk over people all the time." But people talk over each other by accident when there is more than one person in the discussion. Now if someone had a conversation like like this just for fun, I could see merit.

Remember, to try to invalidate the reliable Fandom spreadsheet is to make arguing cases for Sera Ex's family members being legit family members, or about LordAizenSama making 5 socks to get around his permaban to troll the wiki and denying those obvious facts. Which I am pretty sure @AKM sama @Promestein and @Ryukama can vouch out Spreadsheet on our long list of Email address overlaps are very reliable. Although, since @Mr._Bambu is a Super Mod now, I suppose he also can see the Google Doc if I give it to him in PM.

As for Imagine Breaker, I will it admit I don't have the hardest cases, but I do remember a time when ZaStando make an alt, accidently posted on his wall warning himself not to be making alt accounts, but later Imagine Breaker posted the exact same post word for word mere seconds after ZaStando posted it on his own wall by accident and removed it. Plus, I'm sure @Maverick_Zero_X @ShadowWarrior1999 @ShakeResounding @The_Axiom_of_Virgo and @Theuser789 have better experiences than I do and can make cases about how too similar they are.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
First of all, back in summer 2020, the Bureaucrats and Super Mod were given a list of duplicate accounts with an Email Address overlap. It is very reliable, and whether or not ZaStando, Blitz, and Red are different people or not. It does not change the fact that they had a shared Email Address back then. And anyone could easily log to their accounts to change their Email Address. Also, I'm not saying he "Needs to talk over people all the time." But people talk over each other by accident when there is more than one person in the discussion. Now if someone had a conversation like like this just for fun, I could see merit.

Remember, to try to invalidate the reliable Fandom spreadsheet is to make arguing cases for Sera Ex's family members being legit family members, or about LordAizenSama making 5 socks to get around his permaban to troll the wiki and denying those obvious facts. Which I am pretty sure @AKM sama @Promestein and @Ryukama can vouch out Spreadsheet on our long list of Email address overlaps are very reliable. Although, since @Mr._Bambu is a Super Mod now, I suppose he also can see the Google Doc if I give it to him in PM.

As for Imagine Breaker, I will it admit I don't have the hardest cases, but I do remember a time when ZaStando make an alt, accidently posted on his wall warning himself not to be making alt accounts, but later Imagine Breaker posted the exact same post word for word mere seconds after ZaStando posted it on his own wall by accident and removed it. Plus, I'm sure @Maverick_Zero_X @ShadowWarrior1999 @ShakeResounding @The_Axiom_of_Virgo and @Theuser789 have better experiences than I do and can make cases about how too similar they are.
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I know about the email list you just talked about it. What makes it so reliable? You are just saying it is without any substantial evidence. The entire problem with your claim is that Fandom themselves went back and looked and found nothing on them, I'd suggest asking again to see what they find. That is appeal to possibility DDM just because something could "possibly" be the case doesn't make it the case there are no exceptions to this. Again this is not inherently related, even in Geb's video I showed you there were rarely any overtalking and everyone were overall waiting until someone finished what they had to say, the video you posted is about 200 people being in a single voice chat (which is insane) if there is only 2-5 people in a chat then what can I say except "results may vary." Also one more thing I wanted to mention is even if they had the same email address, that doesn't necessarily mean anything if the people managing it are showcased to be different individuals altogether so the case you're trying to make is pretty much weak but that's if they did have the same email address.

I do not care about Sera but for all we know they could be family members or friends it's not uncommon for friends and family to share email addresses with each other for certain purposes though Geb's case is more concrete than Sera's case because he y'know... actually has the voices and proof? It'd be one thing if he were saying these things with no foundation but it's pretty clear that these guys are different people based on the sources. I mean what you are suggesting is to ban all of Geb's family and friends which would be crazy in of itself, if these guys aren't him (as was established) then he can't be incriminated and shouldn't be punished for things he seemingly didn't do.

Sources? I doubt this. If you don't have the proof then I'm dismissing it with Hitchens razor. It would be strange if Geb himself told himself to not make alts so in order for me to believe that I will require the proof for it (yet again if you had the proof I'm sure you would've shown it by now so idk).
 
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I am not allowed to publicly share the spreadsheet because it contains confidential information on 1046 accounts, also, I don't think it's easy to add extras to the list. If anything the opposite is true and that there are more socks with an Email Address overlap that were forgotten. Also, the number of people in a chat isn't what matters, the issue is that if you truly want to prove you're different people. Showcase an example of you talking at the same time. Well, there are other methods too, you could always webcam and show that you have different faces, and make the video listed as Enlisted and Privately share it with me on Discord, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to go that far.

Nowadays, we already know Sera was found guilty of abusing multiple accounts to agree with herself. And family members sharing Email Addresses is common, but friends sharing them would only be the case if two or more of you lived in the same house hold. Sharing Email Addresses is generally considered illegal in general unless people are basically that close IRL. But hypothetically, if I had family members who were on the wiki, I would be willing to find some evidence to share privately with some of the higher up staff. Still, I don't know if you all live in the same household, and admittedly some of the stories I have heard from them directly haven't always been the most consistent. But the point still stands.

It used to be pretty easy to prove before the forum move, but this account has all their message wall threads deleted. And staff used to be able to view/restore deleted messages on their wall, but I don't think they can do that anymore. But there was a time when ZaStando27By11 posted a warning letter on their own wall, removed it, and Imagine Breaker posted the exact same message in every detail mere seconds later. I wish I could show you the evidence or restore deleted messages. But at the moment, I cannot. But I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who remembers something like that.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I am not allowed to publicly share the spreadsheet because it contains confidential information on 1046 accounts, also, I don't think it's easy to add extras to the list. If anything the opposite is true and that there are more socks with an Email Address overlap that were forgotten. Also, the number of people in a chat isn't what matters, the issue is that if you truly want to prove you're different people. Showcase an example of you talking at the same time. Well, there are other methods too, you could always webcam and show that you have different faces, and make the video listed as Enlisted and Privately share it with me on Discord, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to go that far.

Nowadays, we already know Sera was found guilty of abusing multiple accounts to agree with herself. And family members sharing Email Addresses is common, but friends sharing them would only be the case if two or more of you lived in the same house hold. Sharing Email Addresses is generally considered illegal in general unless people are basically that close IRL. But hypothetically, if I had family members who were on the wiki, I would be willing to find some evidence to share privately with some of the higher up staff. Still, I don't know if you all live in the same household, and admittedly some of the stories I have heard from them directly haven't always been the most consistent. But the point still stands.

It used to be pretty easy to prove before the forum move, but this account has all their message wall threads deleted. And staff used to be able to view/restore deleted messages on their wall, but I don't think they can do that anymore. But there was a time when ZaStando27By11 posted a warning letter on their own wall, removed it, and Imagine Breaker posted the exact same message in every detail mere seconds later. I wish I could show you the evidence or restore deleted messages. But at the moment, I cannot. But I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who remembers something like that.
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Extras to the list? Hmmmm. Okay but do you have proof the opposite is true? Rather than assumption? You want Geb and his friends to prove they're different by either 1. Talking at the same time (which has kind of been done already in the BlitzSevenTeen recording) or 2. using webcam and showing different faces, two of which are unnecessary and probably wouldn't even change your perception of Geb and his proof in general. This is entirely up to Geb. From what I'm seeing this is going in circles and heading towards nowhere. The current state of things is in Geb's favor argument wise imo.

No, you can share an email address without being in the same household idk who told you this, if people trust each other enough to handle their personal email addresses then they can do it regardless of location and no, sharing email addresses are only illegal if and only if the person themselves didn't give permission it has nothing to do with how close they are. There's a point? Where's the proof? Otherwise there's no point here. What would you even do if they all lived in the same house? Ban all of them? Sockpuppets have to be the same person not be within the same house or erm.. location like I said what you're suggesting borders on banning his friends and family. I mean it makes sense that you are relying on the sockpuppet argument because without that? In my honest personal opinion? I don't see what Geb supposedly did that should keep him banned you're equating emails to the identity of the person which isn't necessarily true, this might most likely be a case where multiple people used one email for multiple gains and ends considering it's being revealed the identities of these people are different but this might not be true considering that Fandom themselves are finding nothing connecting these guys.

Why didn't you guys archive it? This looks like something pretty important. I'm not just going to take you at your word when contrary evidence has been shown in the others favor, the only thing you have is a email listing meanwhile Geburah has substantial evidence.
 
I don't really need to prove a negative, also, the shared Email Addresses lately aren't evidence. It just means they're different now, it doesn't prove they were different upon creation nor do they prove they were different back in 2020. I saw his video and I heard no one talking at the same time, I always heard a pause between each person starting to speak. And yes, this is a circular argument which is why I feel the topic should be dropped, none of them are having their bans lifted.

Literally every cyber security class in existence tells you not to share your social media accounts with others, and more importantly. Xenoforo does not allow more than one account using the same Email Address unlike Fandom, hence why they even made a giant list of accounts with an Email Address overlap in the first place. And they shared it with us, with the sole purpose of informing us which users have been abusing multiple accounts to either agree with themselves or making sock accounts to bypass a ban. Which ZaStando, Blitz, and Red are on that list. We cannot give them special treatment.

The forum move came at a surprise, and it's not like there is enough time to archive everything. All threads before the start of the forum move where moved to this one, and there was nothing saying that message walls were going to be removed. But somehow, all messages on his wall were removed. You cannot fault the VSBW staff for not being able cover every corner. This was a Fandom staff who have set things up to make it difficult.

Also, we don't need yet another discussion to get dragged on this thread. Especially since once again, it is against the rules for regular users to bombard the RVR with the same circular arguments. And it is up to the staff to decide what is and isn't ban worthy. ZaStando, and Imagine Breaker; especially the former have both done things that are strictly ban worthy. An Imagine Breaker's case he derailed a 5-A Sonic upgrade thread by bombarding it with 1-A stuff and he self admitted that he just wanted to do it out of a vengeance against other Sonic supporters who reported ZaStando to get him banned. This is a topic that seems to get brought up constantly every 6 months or less and that is not going to change the conclusion.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I don't really need to prove a negative, also, the shared Email Addresses lately aren't evidence. It just means they're different now, it doesn't prove they were different upon creation nor do they prove they were different back in 2020. I saw his video and I heard no one talking at the same time, I always heard a pause between each person starting to speak. And yes, this is a circular argument which is why I feel the topic should be dropped, none of them are having their bans lifted.

Literally every cyber security class in existence tells you not to share your social media accounts with others, and more importantly. Xenoforo does not allow more than one account using the same Email Address unlike Fandom, hence why they even made a giant list of accounts with an Email Address overlap in the first place. And they shared it with us, with the sole purpose of informing us which users have been abusing multiple accounts to either agree with themselves or making sock accounts to bypass a ban. Which ZaStando, Blitz, and Red are on that list. We cannot give them special treatment.

The forum move came at a surprise, and it's not like there is enough time to archive everything. All threads before the start of the forum move where moved to this one, and there was nothing saying that message walls were going to be removed. But somehow, all messages on his wall were removed. You cannot fault the VSBW staff for not being able cover every corner. This was a Fandom staff who have set things up to make it difficult.

Also, we don't need yet another discussion to get dragged on this thread. Especially since once again, it is against the rules for regular users to bombard the RVR with the same circular arguments. And it is up to the staff to decide what is and isn't ban worthy. ZaStando, and Imagine Breaker; especially the former have both done things that are strictly ban worthy. An Imagine Breaker's case he derailed a 5-A Sonic upgrade thread by bombarding it with 1-A stuff and he self admitted that he just wanted to do it out of a vengeance against other Sonic supporters who reported ZaStando to get him banned. This is a topic that seems to get brought up constantly every 6 months or less and that is not going to change the conclusion.
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No, a negative would be my assertion your assertion is more a positive than a negative as it relates to something existing meanwhile my assertion supposes it doesn't so my assertion is the true negative. If you didn't hear Geb and Corrupt Demigod speaking at the same time and then Blitz speaking soon after then you are missing pretty significant details, why don't you ask Eternal and Corrupt Demigod was happened in that call? You're making this much more difficult than it needs to be. I'm trying to understand why and the more I look into it the more shady things look, you don't seem to have an actual concrete con against him, you repeat and repeat and repeat like an AI. It's not a matter of special treatment, it's a matter of innocence and Geburah has proven it meanwhile you keep trying to make up claims which incriminates him when you yourself have no proof. Lets say he somehow got the pictures of ImagineBreaker, Blitz and Red what then? Are they all guaranteed a seat back in the VSBW? Because if not then the juice just isn't worth the squeeze they're now risking their actual privacy and are vulnerable to doxxing so unless you're offering a deal you are going to be ignored and not even be taken seriously (and I wouldn't suggest doing that even if you offered to bring them back).

No one has to follow cyber security class and not every school even has a cyber security class (hell, my school didn't lmfao), It was pointed out by ImagineBreaker and Geburah that Xenforo has glitches of its own. Yes we can fault VSBW staff for this, it was their responsibility to make sure the data from the site was safely imported to this forum stop negating accountability, it's shown by Fandom that they have nothing in common you keep going around in circles when it's been covered already. Another issue is it was just established that these guys are not the same individual so even if they had the same email it wouldn't matter, they're not the same person. Notice how your argument hinges on emails and not identity? Stop treating the emails as if they relate to the same identity.

That's not anyone's issue but yours and the other staff. Hitchens razor and Sagan standard was made so extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, for all of what of what you're saying it's hard to take it seriously when there's no proof on your side besides an authority. It becomes a fault and a big problem when the claims you're making aren't backed up with proof (BTW I'm not asking for every corner, I'm asking for something concrete which you can't provide if you can't show evidence against Geburah and still gatekeep him despite the evidence given you look really bad imo)

Aren't you the one who went in circles? Pretty sure if I asked people outside of this wiki (unbiased) who actually went in circles and broke the rules they would point at you DDM so this isn't my fault DDM, All I asked for was concrete proof Geb is guilty and all of his "associates" are alts of him and you can't give me that which is our current issue.

Why don't you show the proof already? I'm still waiting I feel like if you actually had the evidence you would've shown it. I don't want to know what they did that was ban-worthy I don't care about that, what me and many others want to know is what did Geb and ImagineBreaker (mainly Geb though, since he's the most popular) do that was perma-ban worthy? From the looks of it ImagineBreaker didn't do anything besides being accused of being Geburah (which was a trend started by your "friend" SuperBearNeo which is defamation considering how well that aged) and Geburah himself isn't any of the people described and didn't do anything perma-ban worthy (and is this seriously your best supporter for why Geburah is justified being perma-banned: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Message_Wall:ShadowWarrior1999?threadId=4400000000001418419 this is so insignificant, if he was banned it should've been for a few months and that's pushing it). So what I would do is disregard the accusations until you can find proof beyond reasonable doubt Geb and Imagine and all of these other folk are the same guy (which you can't do and resort to gatekeeping them until they reveal personal information now which is very dirty) like you all seemingly waited and proved with Sera anything other than that is a double standard through and through.
 
DDM, setting aside the books that this user is writing, the evidence you have referred to (the email list, the wall-post mishap) is absolutely damning and there is no doubt that you are correct in your suspicion. I don't know what the other users agenda is with this group, but friends don't share email address, and the idea that there was some sort of Fandom/Xenforo glitch that just-so-happened to falsely duplicate an email amongst these unrelated accounts is absolutely ludicrous and should be dismissed entirely.
 
Deagonx said:
DDM, setting aside the books that this user is writing, the evidence you have referred to (the email list, the wall-post mishap) is absolutely damning and there is no doubt that you are correct in your suspicion. I don't know what the other users agenda is with this group, but friends don't share email address, and the idea that there was some sort of Fandom/Xenforo glitch that just-so-happened to falsely duplicate an email amongst these unrelated accounts is absolutely ludicrous and should be dismissed entirely.
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If he has all of this evidence why doesn't he just show it? I can understand the email list but everything else he has said has come up without a single source especially the wall post mishap. Friends don't share emails? Are you implying that friends don't ever share emails? On no occasion? Go on quora or something and ask that you'll find someone I'm sure so that's a ridiculous idea.
 
Actually, the negative in this context is the Spreadsheet making a mistake. Until proven that they made a mistake, and Fandom literally did have access to check these lists, it is the assumption that it is all reliable information. Also, excluding Blitz, Red, or Imagine, ZaStando has clearly made other socks to bypass his ban including ZaStandoByThe11, ZaStandoBoi (The one with an Email Address overlap with Red and Blitz), and many others he openly admitted to. Also, he was banned for 3-6 months before the incident of harassing ShadowWarrior and kept at it despite being warned. Also, the webcam was only a mentioned as a possible method, and if they proved they weren't the same guy. It wouldn't quite get ZaStando unbanned, but I would have seen something for just maybe a few of his friends. And again, I wasn't suggesting that, but simply mentioning it as one possible method.

Also, even if you haven't taken a cybersecurity class, it is still mandatory to be reading TOS or the basic social media advice before joining any social media platform. The "Do not give out any personal information" is one of those basic guidelines as is sharing passwords to others. In this world, it is common place for even the closest of friends to betray one another. Hence why there is such a sensitive rule about shared Email addresses on this forum. Not to mention, we already had to deal with a lot of users abusing multiple accounts to agree with themselves. Look at all the instances we had to deal with Misaka Mikoto, Jonathan Lighter, Mckmal, ect.

Again, one cannot expect all staff members to have 100% perfect recollection of everything that went on. The forum move has already destroyed the evidence and it wasn't anything anyone was expecting to be something needed to be archived. So there is that. Still, if you saw the wall on Antvasima's message wall, the other evidence of ZaStando's other actions are already quite self evident. Not just the ShadowWarrior harassment, but also telling other people to kill themselves. It doesn't matter if it was another wiki, but suicide encouragement on any Fandom platform is worth a permanent global block from all Fandom owned wikis. It's basically the most self evident way to get permabanned from in the first place. He was also globally blocked across Fandom one time for saying some homophobic slurs and Imagine Breaker also got permabanned shortly afterward when he tried to talk to the same Fandom staff who blocked ZaStando.

Also, there are a lot of people who have payed attention to how ZaStando27 and ImagineBreaker have behaved on the wiki and on Discord servers. And people more familiar with them them me such as Maverick and ShadowWarrior are ones who said that there was some pretty damning evidence of being the same guy. Also, you admitted you understand the Spreadsheet example and why I can't show that, but the evidence is still there. But still, there are a long list of common tropes of people being socks such as joining immediately after one was permabanned, making the exact same arguments or debating for the common goals, having the exact same speech patterns and/or OPs and blogs being the same structure, and the list goes on. If applying those "Razors in debating" is your primary argument against me, then those are razors too.

Anyway, I think this topic has already been discussed in too long detail and it should be concluded at this point. Not to mention a conversation on your wall combined with how confrontational you are with the staff on the RVR from a user who seems too new to know how to post lengthy posts with such advocacy for a permabanned user are all things that make me even more suspicious about your antics.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Actually, the negative in this context is the Spreadsheet making a mistake. Until proven that they made a mistake, and Fandom literally did have access to check these lists, it is the assumption that it is all reliable information. Also, excluding Blitz, Red, or Imagine, ZaStando has clearly made other socks to bypass his ban including ZaStandoByThe11, ZaStandoBoi (The one with an Email Address overlap with Red and Blitz), and many others he openly admitted to. Also, he was banned for 3-6 months before the incident of harassing ShadowWarrior and kept at it despite being warned. Also, the webcam was only a mentioned as a possible method, and if they proved they weren't the same guy. It wouldn't quite get ZaStando unbanned, but I would have seen something for just maybe a few of his friends. And again, I wasn't suggesting that, but simply mentioning it as one possible method.

Also, even if you haven't taken a cybersecurity class, it is still mandatory to be reading TOS or the basic social media advice before joining any social media platform. The "Do not give out any personal information" is one of those basic guidelines as is sharing passwords to others. In this world, it is common place for even the closest of friends to betray one another. Hence why there is such a sensitive rule about shared Email addresses on this forum. Not to mention, we already had to deal with a lot of users abusing multiple accounts to agree with themselves. Look at all the instances we had to deal with Misaka Mikoto, Jonathan Lighter, Mckmal, ect.

Again, one cannot expect all staff members to have 100% perfect recollection of everything that went on. The forum move has already destroyed the evidence and it wasn't anything anyone was expecting to be something needed to be archived. So there is that. Still, if you saw the wall on Antvasima's message wall, the other evidence of ZaStando's other actions are already quite self evident. Not just the ShadowWarrior harassment, but also telling other people to kill themselves. It doesn't matter if it was another wiki, but suicide encouragement on any Fandom platform is worth a permanent global block from all Fandom owned wikis. It's basically the most self evident way to get permabanned from in the first place. He was also globally blocked across Fandom one time for saying some homophobic slurs and Imagine Breaker also got permabanned shortly afterward when he tried to talk to the same Fandom staff who blocked ZaStando.

Also, there are a lot of people who have payed attention to how ZaStando27 and ImagineBreaker have behaved on the wiki and on Discord servers. And people more familiar with them them me such as Maverick and ShadowWarrior are ones who said that there was some pretty damning evidence of being the same guy. Also, you admitted you understand the Spreadsheet example and why I can't show that, but the evidence is still there. But still, there are a long list of common tropes of people being socks such as joining immediately after one was permabanned, making the exact same arguments or debating for the common goals, having the exact same speech patterns and/or OPs and blogs being the same structure, and the list goes on. If applying those "Razors in debating" is your primary argument against me, then those are razors too.

Anyway, I think this topic has already been discussed in too long detail and it should be concluded at this point. Not to mention a conversation on your wall combined with how confrontational you are with the staff on the RVR from a user who seems too new to know how to post lengthy posts with such advocacy for a permabanned user are all things that make me even more suspicious about your antics.
Click to expand...
Negative claims are statements that assert the non-existence or exclusion of something. Negative claims are assumed to be true so long as no evidence is presented to prove the claim false. If the negative is the spreadsheet making a mistake then the claim is true especially since Fandom already confirmed he ain't guilty: https://community.fandom.com/wiki/M...eadId=4400000000003416005#4400000000012184828. He did create other socks but it wasn't to bypass his ban according to him: https://vsbattles.com/threads/rule-violations-reports-67.80135/post-2733928 it was rather to explain that he didn't create those other accounts and that he merely created those accounts to make it clear that the people impersonating him weren't him (I actually did a quick search around the website to find this out), you know what you should do? Bring in instances of him using socks to deceive people and bypass the ban and not simply warning people of falsehoods. That brings up an issue because if he's willing to admit to using socks then I think it's fair game to trust him when he says that those accounts are not him.

That's none of your business though, he's allowed to do whatever he wants with his email and you can't actually stop him from sharing it with others if he so chooses that's what you aren't understanding this is looking like you're trying to save face that you can't prove the other accounts are actually him (which there is pretty good evidence they're in fact not him) and hence the "email" correlation falls flat, I would suggest going to him about the emails but I don't know what the results will be.

It's not a matter of having a recollection, it's about having the proof, data and stats to back up your claims I don't expect you or any staff to have it all down packed but I do expect some form of evidence and unfortunately for the both of us you've provided nothing on your end. The ShadowWarrior "harassment" isn't even harassment he simply confronted Shadow and he was banned before the discussion could end, I don't know the context of that discussion but according to Geburah on the message wall there were some instances of ShadowWarrior talking bad behind Geburah's back that you yourself acknowledged even then that's not worth no perma-ban and there's no use trying to justify it, I'm not going to appeal to motive but there is a clear reason why you're going after the sockpuppet argument and that's because it's the only thing that really sticks but as people outside the wiki are finding out: it's built on baseless assumptions and hasty generalizations but I'll entertain this: what are the razors? Are Geburah and Imagine banned from Fandom currently? Based on the message wall that's not the case, since Fandom didn't see a reason to keep them blocked (and you're using them as a standard) I don't know why you're not using the same logic and unbanning them now (I'm not saying to do that, I'm just playing with your logic)

If that's the case then have them show it to us right now, because what you're saying doesn't have a stool to stand on. This is not a good argument since people can be like minded and have similar typing structure, too many factors go in into determining who is who and what is what it requires actual proof. Those are not razors, those are hasty generalizations and slothful inductions.

Okay so what you're doing now is appealing to motive and appealing to force basically you're gonna force me to stop or you're going to simultaneously 1. question my motives instead of my arguments and 2. accuse me of being Geburah based on me using similar arguments that he has used is that it? I've been on other forums and on YouTube where these levels of text discussions are very common do you think this site is the only forum out there? Trust me, I'm 100% sure other people would advocate for Geburah if they made the accounts and got accepted, on Geb's server people are looking at this and they agree. You don't really think that I'm the only one who has these feelings do you? On DOAC Wiki people pretty much feel this way about this situation I'm just reflecting it. I'm neutral but I find your lack of evidence and appeal to possibility rather disturbing. BTW who have I been confrontational with? I've only really talked to you and I've been respectful throughout.

But I'll drop this.
 
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Antvasima said:
We obviously cannot publicly show the email addresses of over a thousand members, and Medeus seems to have a considerably better memory than I do. This argument should preferably be dropped now.
Click to expand...
I never said to show that, I'm concerned about the other claims DDM has made without sources but I'll drop this.
 
Artorimachi_Meteoraft said:
I did contribute by saying I agree with a permaban.
Click to expand...
I think this is an important misconception to clear up, not just for you but for other users as well. You should only be commenting if you are the accused party or if you have helpful information to provide. This isn't the place to be offering agrees/disagrees with user bans, in the future please refrain from commenting on matters that you aren't involved in.
 
Deagonx said:
I think this is an important misconception to clear up, not just for you but for other users as well. You should only be commenting if you are the accused party or if you have helpful information to provide. This isn't the place to be offering agrees/disagrees with user bans, in the future please refrain from commenting on matters that you aren't involved in.
Click to expand...
Alright @Deagonx i’ll keep that in mind next time I decide to be on here again.
 
While I do think Chase definitely sounds like a total creeper, and I do vaguely recall a time we strictly warned him for harassing a Japanese speaker and saying some racists comments against them. Though that was years ago and don't remember exact details. I actually recall that this was like brought up before years ago and the proposal to permaban him was rejected as brought up by Agnaa and I think Mr._Bambu also commented. But "C***y" (I am censoring myself just to be safe as I know it sounds close to a banned word but it probably isn't) is just a general term for a women's body part; it's not specifically anything to do with children. Also, a lot of people get reported here for having a "Lolicon fetish" and allegedly being pedophiles based on that. But I have spoke with people who are more familiar with that than I am, and they agree that Lolita is nothing more than an art/fashion that involve adult female characters dressing up like schoolgirls. I don't support this fetish and do think it is legit creepy, but it's not the same as being a pedophile or child predator and it is not our job to dictate what people are into offsite. And the "****" comments are commonly seen as jokes of poor taste and it's again not our job to judge offsite comments like that.

I will let other staff members comment and I won't be surprised if Chase has some dark/creepy intentions. And may have seen him do problematic things before, but based on the album and what it ties into our offsite rules, I don't think it's considered a violation of our site standards.
 
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DarkDragonMedeus said:
While I do think Chase definitely sounds like a total creeper, and I do vaguely recall a time we strictly warned him for harassing a Japanese speaker and saying some racists comments against them. Though that was years ago and don't remember exact details. I actually recall that this was like brought up before years ago and the proposal to permaban him was rejected as brought up by Agnaa and I think Mr._Bambu also commented. But "C***y" (I am censoring myself just to be safe as I know it sounds close to a banned word but it probably isn't) is just a general term for women; it's not specifically anything to do with children. Also, a lot of people get reported here for having a "Lolicon fetish" and allegedly being pedophiles based on that. But I have spoke with people who are more familiar with that than I am, and they agree that Lolita is nothing more than an art/fashion that involve adult female characters dressing up like schoolgirls. I don't support this fetish and do think it is legit creepy, but it's not the same as being a pedophile or child predator and it is not our job to dictate what people are into offsite. And the "****" comments are commonly seen as jokes of poor taste and it's again not our job to judge offsite comments like that.

I will let other staff members comment and I won't be surprised if Chase has some dark/creepy intentions. And may have seen him do problematic things before, but based on the album and what it ties into our offsite rules, I don't think it's considered a violation of our site standards.
Click to expand...
I think Chase’s intentions are VERY CLEAR. I really don’t see why this shouldn’t be treated with a permaban. It’s clear what he’s communicating, which is straight up predatory behaviour, along with racism thrown in

Do we really want somebody like that on our site? If the answer is yes, that’s gonna raise a lot of questions
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I will let other staff members comment and I won't be surprised if Chase has some dark/creepy intentions. And may have seen him do problematic things before, but based on the album and what it ties into our offsite rules, I don't think it's considered a violation of our site standards.
Click to expand...
So him calling people the hard-r offsite, and saying he wants to **** them is not a violation? At what point does off-site standards become protecting legitimate racists and degenerates?
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
While I do think Chase definitely sounds like a total creeper, and I do vaguely recall a time we strictly warned him for harassing a Japanese speaker and saying some racists comments against them. Though that was years ago and don't remember exact details. I actually recall that this was like brought up before years ago and the proposal to permaban him was rejected as brought up by Agnaa and I think Mr._Bambu also commented. But "C***y" (I am censoring myself just to be safe as I know it sounds close to a banned word but it probably isn't) is just a general term for women; it's not specifically anything to do with children. Also, a lot of people get reported here for having a "Lolicon fetish" and allegedly being pedophiles based on that. But I have spoke with people who are more familiar with that than I am, and they agree that Lolita is nothing more than an art/fashion that involve adult female characters dressing up like schoolgirls. I don't support this fetish and do think it is legit creepy, but it's not the same as being a pedophile or child predator and it is not our job to dictate what people are into offsite. And the "****" comments are commonly seen as jokes of poor taste and it's again not our job to judge offsite comments like that.

I will let other staff members comment and I won't be surprised if Chase has some dark/creepy intentions. And may have seen him do problematic things before, but based on the album and what it ties into our offsite rules, I don't think it's considered a violation of our site standards.
Click to expand...
To be clear, lolita (the fashion movement) and loli (the pedophile **** genre) are two different things that should not be equated. The latter is always a sexual depiction of underaged girls and is pedophilia, simple as. The former has no sexual connotations, so it's quite clear that this guy isn't just uh, enthusiastic about japanese fashion movements.

We have to have at least some standards on who we allow here, and I ******* hope people see how "i love ****** underage girls" is ******* intolerable and should not be allowed within miles of this community, or any community.
 
I've known Chase for a few years now, not super close to him but we've had friendly interactions and I've been on a few discord servers with him.

Upfront, I agree, the messages are very weird/creepy and if anything remotely like that was said here, I'd immediately advocate for a permaban. With that said, one thing that I've noticed as a result of being invited to a hodge-podge of Discord servers connected to these communities is that there is a strong undercurrent/persistent fascination with shock value humor. Racist remarks, dark humor, et cetera.

If the decision is made that this type of behavior off-site is justification for a ban here, I suppose I don't feel strongly enough about it to stand in the way, but there is something that strikes me as a bit "off" about gathering screenshots of someone off-site engaging in poor-taste degenerate humor and using it to ban them here in absentia of any clearly problematic behavior on-site. It'd be one thing if we thought he saw him harassing people/women, or if there were some genuine suspicion of him circulating illegal images, but as it stands I don't see how this is, on it's face, something that the wiki should involve itself with in the first place.

Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
So him calling people the hard-r offsite, and saying he wants to **** them is not a violation? At what point does off-site standards become protecting legitimate racists and degenerates?
Click to expand...
It's not so much about "protecting" them, rather, it's a question of whether or not their behavior off-site is relevant to the wiki in the first place. I'll be the first to say that the example of the user who continued to harass firestorm off-site after being banned here was relevant, but I'm not entirely persuaded of this. It's certainly very gross and I think Chase needs to mature quite a bit, but perhaps a more direct conversation needs to be had -- entirely removed from Chase or anyone in particular -- about how exactly we intend to police off-site behavior.

I would like to ask, where are these messages from? The official VSBW server or somewhere else?
 
Deagonx said:
I've known Chase for a few years now, not super close to him but we've had friendly interactions and I've been on a few discord servers with him.

Upfront, I agree, the messages are very weird/creepy and if anything remotely like that was said here, I'd immediately advocate for a permaban. With that said, one thing that I've noticed as a result of being invited to a hodge-podge of Discord servers connected to these communities is that there is a strong undercurrent/persistent fascination with shock value humor. Racist remarks, dark humor, et cetera.

If the decision is made that this type of behavior off-site is justification for a ban here, I suppose I don't feel strongly enough about it to stand in the way, but there is something that strikes me as a bit "off" about gathering screenshots of someone off-site engaging in poor-taste degenerate humor and using it to ban them here in absentia of any clearly problematic behavior on-site. It'd be one thing if we thought he saw him harassing people/women, or if there were some genuine suspicion of him circulating illegal images, but as it stands I don't see how this is, on it's face, something that the wiki should involve itself with in the first place.


It's not so much about "protecting" them, rather, it's a question of whether or not their behavior off-site is relevant to the wiki in the first place. I'll be the first to say that the example of the user who continued to harass firestorm off-site after being banned here was relevant, but I'm not entirely persuaded of this. It's certainly very gross and I think Chase needs to mature quite a bit, but perhaps a more direct conversation needs to be had -- entirely removed from Chase or anyone in particular -- about how exactly we intend to police off-site behavior.

I would like to ask, where are these messages from? The official VSBW server or somewhere else?
Click to expand...
All fiction Battle Wiki and it was made in poor taste right after chase denied some evidence in a nasuverse "upgrade" thread
 
Yeah I'mma have to very much disagree with DDM on this. The dude's intentions are super clear, and also c***y is nowadays used exclusively by lolicons (as in, the pedo **** addicts).

Also are we gonna ignore the "I wanna ****" and hard-r comments? Even if it's off-site, the principle applies: do we really want someone like that on site? We're trying to foster a community of acceptance of one another (there's a very direct no discrimination rule) and having someone that is so blatantly discriminatory (among other things) is in direct violation of that
 
Darksmash said:
This is kinda being blown out of proportions.

"Cunnies" and "**** correction" are long running memes(albeit extremely weird) in weeb communities that people say ironically 95% of the times. Chase does it so often that you have to be mentally slow to not realize that he knows that it gets reactions out of people and so he stays in character.
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I genuinely do not care. At some point, the "it's just a joke" excuse can't save you
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
To be clear, lolita (the fashion movement) and loli (the pedophile **** genre) are two different things that should not be equated. The latter is always a sexual depiction of underaged girls and is pedophilia, simple as. The former has no sexual connotations, so it's quite clear that this guy isn't just uh, enthusiastic about japanese fashion movements.

We have to have at least some standards on who we allow here, and I ******* hope people see how "i love ****** underage girls" is ******* intolerable and should not be allowed within miles of this community, or any community.
Click to expand...
Quick correction, loli in of itself isnt really pedophilic, just a term for a cute ( not in the sexual way) short woman/female child character.
It's when these child characters are depicted in questionable situations that it gets weird
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
So him calling people the hard-r offsite, and saying he wants to **** them is not a violation? At what point does off-site standards become protecting legitimate racists and degenerates?
Click to expand...
Were R words ever considered that hard here? I think I've even seen ppl joking about it on site.

I also know chase off site and see him talk pretty daily, even if the talks he said seems weird or whatever, he does that as "jokes" I don't know how much it justifies but that's that. Take it as hard r jokes or what not. It's just his way to live in off site place he feels comfortable to say anything he likes. I am not defending the vsbw thing but that chase is good person to me, if it's offensive to vsbw? I dunno.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
I genuinely do not care. At some point, the "it's just a joke" excuse can't save you
Click to expand...
Except these are offsite comments that you have to be with the person daily to know the context of. Discord is a cesspool of ironic comedy and using these things as their actual view on things without knowing the context is extremely dumb.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
So him calling people the hard-r offsite, and saying he wants to **** them is not a violation? At what point does off-site standards become protecting legitimate racists and degenerates?
Click to expand...
If he said N word with hard R or the R word to their face, it is ban worthy. Just not if he said it behind their back. But that should have been specific in the report.

Also, someone did mention other scans in the discord server, but then I told them that those scans about "He is into Middle School C***y's" should have been included in the original report.
Crabwhale said:
I dunno DDM, this feels like pretty good ******' reason to me. Bonus points if he!s like this all the time.
Click to expand...
I am in the Discord server where I was pinged, and they were talking about him. Yes, I saw more scans and now on board with a permaban, but what sd I said is that those should have been specified more in the initial report.
 
Darksmash said:
Except these are offsite comments that you have to be with the person daily to know the context of. Discord is a cesspool of ironic comedy and using these things as their actual view on things without knowing the context is extremely dumb.
Click to expand...
The context is that **** jokes and racism are "funny" and "ironic" to this person

Come on now
 
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