DC Comics - Lucifer Abilities

[Deleted member 2530]

To be honest, I think it's neither, unless we have good reason to believe that the default is that the void will erase your existence, which I think there's probably little to no evidence for.

Erishad narrates that the Void was cackling with raw energy of negation while Lucifer says its not the same as non-existence.

Though I believe the argument isn't whether the Void erases but whether Lucifer became it.

I was thinking Lucifer should has all prior at a higher level in the void because of this statement by silkman

Not a higher level than he normally is tbh. He just learns to navigate the Void unlike Silkman and Berim who require the aid of the Barrowjane. I am not sure what the decision is regarding using Lucifer Vol 2(Too much contradiction and the author herself saying its not part of DC or DC related things) and Lucifer Vol 3(Still some contradictions but not enough to be that problematic).

 

[Robo432343]

Erishad narrates that the Void was cackling with raw energy of negation while Lucifer says its not the same as non-existence.

Though I believe the argument isn't whether the Void erases but whether Lucifer became it.

Not a higher level than he normally is tbh. He just learns to navigate the Void unlike Silkman and Berim who require the aid of the Barrowjane. I am not sure what the decision is regarding using Lucifer Vol 2(Too much contradiction and the author herself saying its not part of DC or DC related things) and Lucifer Vol 3(Still some contradictions but not enough to be that problematic).

yeah, i think there should be a 2018 lucifer key if there's so many contradictions

silkman did say that Lucifer must have had some power to have reached the void, considering its outside creation or smth

 

[Deleted member 2530]

yeah, i think there should be a 2018 lucifer key if there's so many contradictions

Probably. The depowered Section should be removed though. The abilities are vacant and the speed tiering makes no sense because he still had his wings an could navigate the Void when he processed the

silkman did say that Lucifer must have had some power to have reached the void, considering its outside creation or smth

It doesn't mean that he was stronger than his usual self though especially since he has given away his Morningstar powers to Mazikeen.

 

[Antvasima]

@Deagonx

What do you think should be done here?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I updated the post but there is still a lot to go through
Btw what is the ability where you can interact with an abstract being? Lucid we interacted with Michael who embodies power

That is Non-Physical Interaction.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Robo432343]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Kulf_Boba @LephyrTheRevanchist @Maverick_Zero_X @Lightning_XXI @Stefano4444 @LuciferX @Vasco @Excel616

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate this please?

 

[Stefano4444]

Looking at the scans at first glance they seen more or less correct, so i agree with the upgrade.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Vasco]

Yahweh: Immortal, Deathless, and Eternal. Death herself has no grasp over him because the concept of Death doesn't apply to him.

Lucifer is Yahweh’s Will and his tool alongside his other son Michael made for the business of Creation. Lucifer himself exists before Death and not only is he older but he is greater.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #2)

Remember these Angels were experimenting with the blueprint of the Universe to come and the Endless exists as long as there is sentient life and however long the Universe is. Lucifer and Michael created that Universe. Death herself admits to this.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #26)

Angels are mere peers to Lucifer to reflect on and could destroy the entirety of the Heavenly Host. Even threaten to destroy Death.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #26)

He even withheld Death from his Creation if they kept their promise and later like how God did brings it back as punishment for not listening.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #16)

She could kill lucifer if he was bound to a set fate and she literally said it herself whether she would even have this chance again because as long as Yahweh exists, Lucifer is pretty much eternal.

(Lucifer Vol.1 #26)

(Lucifer Vol.3 #13)

(Lucifer Vol.1 #25)

The other hax

resistance to probability manip - Lucifer tanks an assault from The Basanos. They attack Lucifer with infinite number of death possibilities which he ignores and continues to fight. However, he was eventually defeated with a different hax. You can argue that noema was still learning how to use her powers but this was still a very hard hax to break out of.

Resistance to attack reflection - Ignores the mark of Cain which is given by god. it reflects the damage done 7 fold
7 fold part

pain tolerance, resilient immortality - Removed a toxic cherub from his body by literally impaling himself

weak lucifer takes a slap from noema (idk what ability noema is using)

cloth manip - creates a suit

healing - Heals mazikeen

phasing - phases through a dude

causality manip - Destroys some Quaima, who are stated to be invulnerable and are spirits. also

immunity to fire

social influencing - manipulated misubi into killing herself who was sent to kill lucifer

non physical interaction - the scans are on his profile

immortality negation - erased silkman

resistance to death manip - was unaffected by 7 layers of death

I can agree for immortality type 5 since he didn't really tank any death manipulation attack but death seems to have no claim on him even he intended it to happen, so immortality type 5 is fine by me.

resistance to probability manip - Lucifer tanks an assault from The Basanos. They attack Lucifer with infinite number of death possibilities which he ignores and continues to fight. However, he was eventually defeated with a different hax. You can argue that noema was still learning how to use her powers but this was still a very hard hax to break out of.

Scan didn't say "infinite" just shows possible deaths that could happen which he ignored.
Still resistance to probability manipulation but ask @Deagonx , I just skeptical on what to call such a manipulation to ignore possible death outcomes.

Resistance to attack reflection - Ignores the mark of Cain which is given by god. it reflects the damage done 7 fold
7 fold part

It said only when cain dies so I disagree since lucifer didn't kill him in the scan.

pain tolerance, resilient immortality - Removed a toxic cherub from his body by literally impaling himself

Agree to immortality type 2.

weak lucifer takes a slap from noema (idk what ability noema is using)

He resisted it before Elaine stepped in but I'd say resistance to body puppetry since she told him to bow which he resisted and while "weak" like you claim but could you send the scans?

cloth manip - creates a suit

Agree.

healing - Heals mazikeen

I don't see any healing more like resurrection.

phasing - phases through a dude

Agree.

causality manip - Destroys some Quaima, who are stated to be invulnerable and are spirits. also

Seems more like durability negation and NPI.

mmunity to fire

This is obvious, Agree.

social influencing - manipulated misubi into killing herself who was sent to kill lucifer

Agree.

immortality negation - erased silkman

Can you send scans of silkman immortality?

resistance to death manip - was unaffected by 7 layers of death

Agree.

 

[Antvasima]

Vasco's point by point evaluation above seems to make sense to me.

 

[Excellence616]

I cam agree for immortality type 5 since he didn't really tank any death manipulation attack but death seems to have no claim on him even he intended it to happen, so immortality type 5 is fine by me.

Scan didn't say "infinite" just shows possible deaths that could happen which he ignored.
Still resistance to probability manipulation but ask @Deagonx , I just skeptical on what to call such a manipulation to ignore possible death outcomes.

It said only when cain dies so I disagree since lucifer didn't kill him in the scan.

Agree to immortality type 2.

He resisted it before Elaine stepped in but I'd say resistance to body puppetry since she told him to bow which he resisted and while "weak" like you claim but could you send the scans?

Agree.

I don't see any healing more like resurrection.

Agree.

Seems more like durability negation and NPI.

This is obvious, Agree.

Agree.

Can you send scans of silkman immortality?

Agree.

Agree with @Vasco

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. What Vasco accepted can probably be applied then, in lack of better options.

 

[Gasper]

Being beyond death shouldn't be immortality type 5. Just death manipulation resistance.

Also, for his cloth manipulation... i think that's just matter manipulation.

 

[Antvasima]

That makes sense to me, yes.

Thank you for the evaluations.

 

[Vasco]

Also, for his cloth manipulation... i think that's just matter manipulation.

Cloth Manipulation

Cloth Manipulation (also known as Clothing Manipulation) is the ability to supernaturally use various cloths for combat and non-combat related uses. It is often applied to flexible materials you'd find on Earth like wool, cotton, leather, etc. However manipulation of clothes made from unnatural...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Cloth manipulation page kinda exist.

Being beyond death shouldn't be immortality type 5. Just death manipulation resistance.

I thought of this several times but his conversation with death of the endless never had him resist any death manipulation from her, more like she can't claim him at all and he refuses to be claimed by her which she didn't kinda deny and his also stated to be greater than her(death) so it kinda qualifies for Deathless immortality than resistance to death manipulation.

 

[Antvasima]

Cloth Manipulation

Cloth Manipulation (also known as Clothing Manipulation) is the ability to supernaturally use various cloths for combat and non-combat related uses. It is often applied to flexible materials you'd find on Earth like wool, cotton, leather, etc. However manipulation of clothes made from unnatural...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Cloth manipulation page kinda exist.

Yes, but if somebody has advanced matter manipulation it is kind of redundant to list cloth manipulation.

I thought of this several times but his conversation with death of the endless never had him resist any death manipulation from her, more like she can't claim him at all and he refuses to be claimed by her which she didn't kinda deny and his also stated to be greater than her(death) so it kinda qualifies for Deathless immortality than resistance to death manipulation.

Good point.

 

[Gasper]

Cloth Manipulation

Cloth Manipulation (also known as Clothing Manipulation) is the ability to supernaturally use various cloths for combat and non-combat related uses. It is often applied to flexible materials you'd find on Earth like wool, cotton, leather, etc. However manipulation of clothes made from unnatural...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Cloth manipulation page kinda exist.

Yeah, i know.
So what? He just created a suit.
He didn't manipulate any cloth at all.
That's easily just matter manipulation.

I thought of this several times but his conversation with death of the endless never had him resist any death manipulation from her, more like she can't claim him at all and he refuses to be claimed by her which she didn't kinda deny and his also stated to be greater than her(death) so it kinda qualifies for Deathless immortality than resistance to death manipulation.

That's fine i guess

 

[Vasco]

Yeah, i know.
So what? He just created a suit.
He didn't manipulate any cloth at all.
That's easily just matter manipulation

Cloth Manipulation

Cloth Manipulation (also known as Clothing Manipulation) is the ability to supernaturally use various cloths for combat and non-combat related uses. It is often applied to flexible materials you'd find on Earth like wool, cotton, leather, etc. However manipulation of clothes made from unnatural...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Users are able to create, shape and control clothing towards their will.

 

[Deagonx]

Cloth manipulation should probably be reserved for characters who uniquely have an ability to manipulate clothing, not anyone with matter manipulation that can be applied to clothing (since clothing is matter).

 

[Vasco]

Yes, but if somebody has advanced matter manipulation it is kind of redundant to list cloth manipulation.

If lucifer has matter manipulation on profile then yeah it's kinda redundant to add it.

 

[Robo432343]

Being beyond death shouldn't be immortality type 5. Just death manipulation resistance.

but he also existed before death itself

 

[Gasper]

but he also existed before death itself

So? Type 5 immortality is when you're neither dead and alive. And not just existing before death or anything like that.

 

[Robo432343]

So? Type 5 immortality is when you're neither dead and alive. And not just existing before death or anything like that.

type 5 immo is when ur unbound by life and death

 

[Gasper]

type 5 immo is when ur unbound by life and death

No, unbound by life and death is just resistance to life and death.

 

[Robo432343]

No, unbound by life and death is just resistance to life and death.

my guy, it says being unbound by life and death is immo 5 on the page

Immortality

Immortality is the ability to simply not die by natural means for any number of reasons, ranging from simply having no limit to your lifespan, being able to regenerate from wounds that would normally be lethal, or being protected by a higher being, among other possible reasons. It should be...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Robo432343]

Can you send scans of silkman immortality?

This is from lucifer nirvana but i dont have the scan, just the quote
"a fossil remnant from an earlier, cruder creation. His body is a weaving that has to be renewed constantly. His spirit too, come to that. A messy form of immortality, but it seems to do the job."

 

[Vasco]

This is from lucifer nirvana but i dont have the scan, just the quote
"a fossil remnant from an earlier, cruder creation. His body is a weaving that has to be renewed constantly. His spirit too, come to that. A messy form of immortality, but it seems to do the job."

Is he getting reincarnated or his body just keeping renewing itself without reincarnation?

 

[Robo432343]

Is he getting reincarnated or his body just keeping renewing itself without reincarnation?

honestly have 0 idea, but
@Immortalgodd might have an answer

 

[Robo432343]

Is he getting reincarnated or his body just keeping renewing itself without reincarnation?

Wait lmao Lucifer should already have immortality negation because its already on his profile

"Turns an immortal woman to dust with a single tap"
So immortality negation via deconstruction

 

[Robo432343]

But his immortality negation via erasing silkman should be on a higher level because its either type 3 or 4

 

[Firestorm808]

@Deagonx @Firestorm808 @Eficiente

What do you think about this?

Have all scans been sourced?

 

[Robo432343]

No, it'll take a while

 

[Vasco]

Wait lmao Lucifer should already have immortality negation because its already on his profile

"Turns an immortal woman to dust with a single tap"
So immortality negation via deconstruction

Immortality type 1? If not I don't see it as any negation just deconstruction.

But his immortality negation via erasing silkman should be on a higher level because its either type 3 or 4

I'd need to see scans first to know the type of immortality silkman has.

 

[Robo432343]

Immortality type 1? If not I don't see it as any negation just deconstruction.

I'd need to see scans first to know the type of immortality silkman has.

Found it

 

[Vasco]

Found it

Since Silkman is never alive it should be immortality type 7 but I don't see it like negation of immortality type 7 since he erased him, just EE is enough.

 

[Robo432343]

Since Silkman is never alive it should be immortality type 7 but I don't see it like negation of immortality type 7 since he erased him, just EE is enough.

silkman was always alive until lucifer ee'd him what do you mean

 

[Robo432343]

@Vasco oh i see now
Lucifer kinda did negate his immortality by ee'ing him tho

 

[Vasco]

silkman was always alive until lucifer ee'd him what do you mean

Killing an immortality type 1 character doesn't grant negation, they just have eternal life.

@Vasco oh i see now
Lucifer kinda did negate his immortality by ee'ing him tho

You can EE undead beings and still not be negation.