God of War: Ragnarok Discussion Thread

[CrisisCrysis]

nine dimensional soul stuff incoming in GoW

I really hate that shit. A random 9-D statement from a random D.M.C. Chinese mobile game without any proof of unquantifiably infinite difference and/or R>F found in primary/secondary canon source, or a dev clarification on the subject is apparently enough for 1-C. Lol.

I really hate tier Low 1-C for DOOM as well for similar reasons.

 

[Andika_CL_atmadja]

I really hate that shit. A random 9-D statement from a random D.M.C. Chinese mobile game without any proof of unquantifiably infinite difference and/or R>F found in primary/secondary canon source, or a dev clarification on the subject is apparently enough for 1-C. Lol.

I really hate tier Low 1-C for DOOM as well for similar reasons.

not expert on this but

@GilverTheProtoAngelo

 

[Hellbeast]

Prolly further strengthens Kratos's claim of having lived for centuries in Lore and Legends which takes place a year after 2018.

Now I just need to know how old Odin and co are

I wonder how they would come down into Midgard then. Some weird realm fabric shenanigans bullshit?

Also makes me wonder, given that the realms have a core main planet that everyone seems accustomed to, why were there never any aliens in any of the realms from other planets and star systems within those realms?

Let's not use Lindwyrms, those guard the Realm Tree, they ain't alien.

Same reason they don’t in Greece

The realms are infinite in size. The planet in Helheim i.e. Hel, where the souls are located, can overflow.

Wait via what statement?

 

[CorneredHarbor]

I really hate that shit. A random 9-D statement from a random D.M.C. Chinese mobile game without any proof of unquantifiably infinite difference and/or R>F found in primary/secondary canon source, or a dev clarification on the subject is apparently enough for 1-C. Lol.

I really hate tier Low 1-C for DOOM as well for similar reasons.

Yeah the DMC 1-C thing is pretty iffy.

But for DOOM the evidence is within the main games themselves. Don't really know how legit they are beacuse i am not really into DOOM scaling.

 

[Gasper]

For the Eitr right? Is that mentioned in Ragnarok

No, somebody posted a video about some asgardian saying poisoning thor is like trying to destroy a mountain or something like that.

 

[Hellbeast]

No, somebody posted a video about some asgardian saying poisoning thor is like trying to destroy a mountain or something like that.

Ah ok, that's solid

 

[Gasper]

Ah ok, that's solid

Omg, i am stupid. I forgot to say destroying a mountain with a spoon.

 

[KLOL506]

Wait via what statement?

Cory Barlog email stuff.

 

[Gasper]

I really hate that shit. A random 9-D statement from a random D.M.C. Chinese mobile game without any proof of unquantifiably infinite difference and/or R>F found in primary/secondary canon source, or a dev clarification on the subject is apparently enough for 1-C. Lol.

I really hate tier Low 1-C for DOOM as well for similar reasons.

The hypocrisy is real bro

 

[Chianli]

i think we wiill hit 1-c one day

 

[Gasper]

i think we wiill hit 1-c one day

At this point i really don't care anymore. Even if we get sufficient evidence for low 1-C gow cosmology, everyone will just say "nobody in the verse scales to that obviously".

 

[Andika_CL_atmadja]

Cory Barlog email stuff.

Ok is that even legit tho?? well yes, i asking again just in case

 

[Chianli]

At this point i really don't care anymore. Even of we get sufficient evidence for low 1-C gow cosmology, everyone will just say "nobody in the verse scales to that obviously".

Too lazy to give scaling or Because said character would be weak compare to the standards is why some won't want that, athena technically could be 1-C for all we know

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Yeah the DMC 1-C thing is pretty iffy.

But for DOOM the evidence is within the main games themselves. Don't really know how legit they are beacuse i am not really into DOOM scaling.

The issue with DOOM is that its lore power scalers ignore the abundant proof stacked against their narrative. Hugo Martin has confirmed TWICE that he uses "dimensions" and "universes" inter-changeably, yet many people treat "dimensions" in DOOM as higher dimensions. Also, Urdak is stated to be the "6th dimension", but people just ignore that earth is also stated to be "5th dimension" and the Sentinel planet is called "4th dimension" in the same lore.

The "transcending Space and Time" statement for Hell is also iffy because there's no unquantifiably infinite difference and/or R>F property of it mentioned in a primary/secondary canon material, or clarified by a dev. The Maykr God mind viewing infinite timelines could just be future possibilities, and it doesn't necessarily mean that the DOOM multiverse contains infinite timelines.

Not to mention, Urdak is called a "higher" dimension and a Hell a "lower" dimension i.e. they are simply stacked above and below the mortal universe respectively. The Icon of Sin can destroy the mortal universe over time by creating a black hole big enough to do so, but that's not raw power. That's just gravity manipulation hax.

Although I shouldn't talk about all this here.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Ok is that even legit tho?? well yes, i asking again just in case

It is legit. My friend got Cory on Gmail chat to re-confirm it as well.

 

[Chianli]

The issue with DOOM is that its lore power scalers ignore the abundant proof stacked against their narrative. Hugo Martin has confirmed TWICE that he uses "dimensions" and "universes" inter-changeably, yet many people treat "dimensions" in DOOM as higher dimensions. Also, Urdak is stated to be the "6th dimension", but people just ignore that earth is also stated to be "5th dimension" and the Sentinel planet is called "4th dimension" in the same lore.

The "transcending Space and Time" statement for Hell is also iffy because there's no unquantifiably infinite difference and/or R>F property of it mentioned in a primary/secondary canon material, or clarified by a dev. The Maykr God mind viewing infinite timelines could just be future possibilities, and it doesn't necessarily mean that the DOOM multiverse contains infinite timelines.

Not to mention, Urdak is called a "higher" dimension and a Hell a "lower" dimension i.e. they are simply stacked above and below the mortal universe respectively. The Icon of Sin can destroy the mortal universe over time by creating a black hole big enough to do so, but that's not raw power. That's just gravity manipulation hax.

Although I shouldn't talk about all this here.

or this as well, though some might though it because "muh lore".

 

[Chianli]

It is legit. My friend got Cory on Gmail chat to re-confirm it as well.

what is the e-mail about?

 

[Dienomite22]

I really hate that shit. A random 9-D statement from a random D.M.C. Chinese mobile game without any proof of unquantifiably infinite difference and/or R>F found in primary/secondary canon source, or a dev clarification on the subject is apparently enough for 1-C. Lol.

I really hate tier Low 1-C for DOOM as well for similar reasons.

Devil May Cry's statement is from a canon mobile game and makes sense but thank you for bringing this up because it reminded me about it being accepted because of this rule:

Q: When are higher dimensions valid, then?​

A: One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves. For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc.

However, vaguer cases where a universe is merely stated to be higher-dimensional while existing in a scaling vacuum with no previously established relationship of superiority towards lower-dimensional ones (or no evidence to infer such a relationship from) should be analysed more carefully. In such cases where information as to their exact nature and scale is scarce, it is preferable that the higher dimensions in question be fully-sized in order to qualify.

Does the bolded not apply to the Yggdrasil?

 

[CrisisCrysis]

At this point i really don't care anymore. Even if we get sufficient evidence for low 1-C gow cosmology, everyone will just say "nobody in the verse scales to that obviously".

We already have abundant proof for low 1-C, yet we can't use it unlike other verses where you can get 1-C from a vague ass 9-D statement off a Chinese mobile game with questionable canonicity to say the least.

 

[Gasper]

Does the bolded not apply to the Yggdrasil?

Of course not lmaoo. Don't ridiculous, it gow dummy

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Devil May Cry's statement is from a canon mobile game and makes sense but thank you for bringing this up because it reminded me about it being accepted because of this rule:

Q: When are higher dimensions valid, then?​

A: One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves. For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc.

However, vaguer cases where a universe is merely stated to be higher-dimensional while existing in a scaling vacuum with no previously established relationship of superiority towards lower-dimensional ones (or no evidence to infer such a relationship from) should be analysed more carefully. In such cases where information as to their exact nature and scale is scarce, it is preferable that the higher dimensions in question be fully-sized in order to qualify.

Does the bolded not apply to the Yggdrasil?

I have already said that it couldn't be clearer. It applies, yet we don't use it.

NaH wE nEeD mOrE eViDeNcE iN sEcOnDaRy CaNoN sTuFf, WhO cArEs AbOuT pRiMaRy CaNoN dUmMy?

 

[CorneredHarbor]

The issue with DOOM is that its lore power scalers ignore the abundant proof stacked against their narrative. Hugo Martin has confirmed TWICE that he uses "dimensions" and "universes" inter-changeably, yet many people treat "dimensions" in DOOM as higher dimensions. Also, Urdak is stated to be the "6th dimension", but people just ignore that earth is also stated to be "5th dimension" and the Sentinel planet is called "4th dimension" in the same lore.

The "transcending Space and Time" statement for Hell is also iffy because there's no unquantifiably infinite difference and/or R>F property of it mentioned in a primary/secondary canon material, or clarified by a dev. The Maykr God mind viewing infinite timelines could just be future possibilities, and it doesn't necessarily mean that the DOOM multiverse contains infinite timelines.

Not to mention, Urdak is called a "higher" dimension and a Hell a "lower" dimension i.e. they are simply stacked above and below the mortal universe respectively. The Icon of Sin can destroy the mortal universe over time by creating a black hole big enough to do so, but that's not raw power. That's just gravity manipulation hax.

Although I shouldn't talk about all this here.

I don't think any of the things you mentioned are the reason DOOM scales to Low 1-C in the first place.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

what is the e-mail about?

 

[CrisisCrysis]

I don't think any of the things you mentioned are the reason DOOM scales to Low 1-C in the first place.

Nah, check out the Davoth profile. They talk about Hell and it "transcending Space and Time".

 

[Dienomite22]

NaH wE nEeD mOrE eViDeNcE iN sEcOnDaRy CaNoN sTuFf, WhO cArEs AbOuT pRiMaRy CaNoN dUmMy?

Tbf word of god is like not even secondary canon on this website. For good reasons too as someone who has been here for close to a decade.

 

[Andika_CL_atmadja]

@CrisisCrysis i assume you joined GoW/DMC Discord alongside @KLOL506 and @GilverTheProtoAngelo yes ? no?

 

[CrisisCrysis]

@CrisisCrysis i assume you joined GoW/DMC Discord alongside @KLOL506 and @GilverTheProtoAngelo yes ? no?

No.

 

[KLOL506]

Pretty sure we've sung this same song and dance about "infinite dimensions" over and over again and it's honestly not gonna go through. WoG has always remained bottom rung in terms of the canon pecking order unless it's clarification for stuff that already exists within primary or secondary canon first. At best you can make a case for the "infinite-sized realms" given that we aren't exactly given any implications of a physical limit for the said realms plus Yggdrasil's branches are indeed called to be stretching out to infinity in the novel. And even the Hel overflowing part is for the City alone since it's shut off effectively and some other part could be out of balance which would explain the flooding, but that's speculation territory.

Of course, there are the other downplayers who will call the cosmology 5-B while completely ignoring that each realm has their own separate Sun.

We already have abundant proof for low 1-C

The term "transcend" on its own isn't proof enough to qualify for anything because it's so vague to begin with. It's like those time travel scenarios where the time traveller is stated to "transcend time itself" or some other BS where no line of existential superiority is implied. Unlike in the case of Athena who verbatim states herself to have been brought to a higher existence due to her selfless sacrifice.

If anything, Low 1-C Greek Pantheon is an even more likely scenario than Low 1-C Norse.

 

[Andika_CL_atmadja]

No.

you should join then. Discord is more flexible when it comes to deal with this stuff. You can ask @GilverTheProtoAngelo to join

 

[KLOL506]

you should join then. Discord is more flexible when it comes to deal with this stuff. You can ask @GilverTheProtoAngelo to join

Nah, if it's not gonna fly here, it's not gonna fly on the server either.

 

[KLOL506]

Devil May Cry's statement is from a canon mobile game and makes sense but thank you for bringing this up because it reminded me about it being accepted because of this rule:

Q: When are higher dimensions valid, then?​

A: One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves. For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc.

However, vaguer cases where a universe is merely stated to be higher-dimensional while existing in a scaling vacuum with no previously established relationship of superiority towards lower-dimensional ones (or no evidence to infer such a relationship from) should be analysed more carefully. In such cases where information as to their exact nature and scale is scarce, it is preferable that the higher dimensions in question be fully-sized in order to qualify.

Does the bolded not apply to the Yggdrasil?

'Fraid not, already tried this with Ultima using the Lore and Legends statements, he wasn't gonna budge. He stated that the Lore and Legends statement wasn't justification enough to imply existential superiority to the 5-D level.

And of course, there's DontTalk already stating in the DB thread that overarching timelines AKA Hypertimes, aren't necessarily Tier 1 either, they'd be Tier 2 as well

 

[Andika_CL_atmadja]

Nah, if it's not gonna fly here, it's not gonna fly on the server either.

well i am sure there are a lot of people from discord that want to give his/her opinion regarding this......

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Pretty sure we've sung this same song and dance about "infinite dimensions" over and over again and it's honestly not gonna go through. WoG has always remained bottom rung in terms of the canon pecking order unless it's clarification for stuff that already exists within primary or secondary canon first. At best you can make a case for the "infinite-sized realms" given that we aren't exactly given any implications of a physical limit for the said realms plus Yggdrasil's branches are indeed called to be stretching out to infinity in the novel. And even the Hel overflowing part is for the City alone since it's shut off effectively and some other part could be out of balance which would explain the flooding, but that's speculation territory.

Of course, there are the other downplayers who will call the cosmology 5-B while completely ignoring that each realm has their own separate Sun.


The term "transcend" on its own isn't proof enough to qualify for anything because it's so vague to begin with. It's like those time travel scenarios where the time traveller is stated to "transcend time itself" or some other BS where no line of existential superiority is implied. Unlike in the case of Athena who verbatim states herself to have been brought to a higher existence due to her selfless sacrifice.

If anything, Low 1-C Greek Pantheon is an even more likely scenario than Low 1-C Norse.

I shared the post because the guy asked for it, nothing else. I know that it can't be used here without a mention in secondary/primary canon sources.

The 9 realms are infinite in size according to Cory in that mail, yet they are just points on the Yggdrasil's infinite branches. That's unquantifiably infinite difference. Not to mention, the Yggdrasil likely encompasses a higher Space-Time flow than the 9 realms as we've already discussed. That's enough for low 1-C.

 

[KLOL506]

I shared the post because the guy asked for it, nothing else.

The 9 realms are infinite in size according to Cory in that mail, yet they are just points on the Yggdrasil's infinite branches. That's unquantifiably infinite difference.

The "points" argument was shot down by Ultima himself, given that they actually stem from the Lore and Legends. Turns out, the whole "Mid-point" argument was merely referring to the position of the Realm on the tree like Ultima himself was arguing about before Ragnarok ever came out.

Not to mention, the Yggdrasil likely encompasses a higher Space-Time flow that the 9 realms as we've already discussed. That's enough for low 1-C.

Encompassing a higher space-time flow than the smaller space-time continuums you're containing isn't necessarily proof enough to qualify for Tier 1 either. DontTalkDT explains it in detail here.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

The "points" argument was shot down by Ultima himself, given that they actually stem from the Lore and Legends. Turns out, the whole "Mid-point" argument was merely referring to the position of the Realm on the tree like Ultima himself was arguing about before Ragnarok ever came out.


Encompassing a higher space-time flow than the smaller space-time continuums you're containing isn't necessarily proof enough to qualify for Tier 1 either. DontTalkDT explains it in detail here.

That's not the point here (pun?). Midgard, an infinite sized realm, is a finite midpoint on the Yggdrasil. That surely means that its infinity is smaller than the Yggdrasil's infinity i.e. unquantifiably infinite difference.

Guess there's literally no way to get Norse GoW on low 1-C, even though there are many other verses who get away with this. Lol.

 

[KLOL506]

That's not the point here (pun?). Midgard, an infinite sized realm, is a finite midpoint on the Yggdrasil. That surely means that its infinity is smaller than the Yggdrasil's infinity i.e. unquantifiably infinite difference.

Like I said, the "midpoint" argument doesn't actually refer to the size difference between Yggdrasil and Midgard, it just identifies position.

Guess there's literally no way to get Norse GoW on low 1-C, even though there are many other verses who get away with this. Lol.

Honestly at this point I think it's way more likely to see Low 1-C Greek Pantheon first LOL since Athena's statement and Cory's interviews actually do blatantly imply existential superiority there and they don't go about any vague way on it.

Also it ain't just Norse GoW that suffers the loss, DB was the first to suffer said loss.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

This goes so hard

Always did. Funny thing is, it basically spoiled the ending of the game, years in advance.

The guy who did this is CK Goksoy. I follow him on IG. He also did the image that's used for the Power of Hope on Kratos' page

Now I just need to know how old Odin and co are

Considering the fact that he was born in the great void, and created all the realms, except the primordial realms, he's probably lived for billions of years

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Like I said, the "midpoint" argument doesn't actually refer to the size difference between Yggdrasil and Midgard, it just identifies position.


Honestly at this point I think it's way more likely to see Low 1-C Greek Pantheon first LOL since Athena's statement and Cory's interviews actually do blatantly imply existential superiority there and they don't go about any vague way on it.

Also it ain't just Norse GoW that suffers the loss, DB was the first to suffer said loss.

See, Midgard is present on the Yggdrasil. Correct?

And it's the midpoint of it. Correct?

All the realms, including Midgard, are infinite sized as per Cory and the Yggdrasil's strands are infinite too. Correct?

So, obviously, the infinity of Midgard is a part of the greater infinity of the Yggdrasil. Otherwise, Midgard wouldn't really be a part or "mid point" of it (if they're on the same level infinity). Hope I'm making sense to you.

 

[KLOL506]

Always did. Funny thing is, it basically spoiled the ending of the game, years in advance.

The guy who did this is CK Goksoy. I follow him on IG. He also did the image that's used for the Power of Hope on Kratos' page

@Aetheric Pariah is the one who commissioned him to do the PoH Kratos artwork.

 

[KLOL506]

See, Midgard is present on the Yggdrasi. Correct?

And it's the midpoint of it. Correct?

Midgard, like all the realms, is infinite sized as per Cory and the Yggdrasil's strands are infinite too. Correct?

So, obviously, the infinity of Midgard is a part of the greater infinity of the Yggdrasil. Otherwise, Midgard wouldn't really be a part or "mid point" of it (if they're on the same level infinity). Hope I'm making sense to you.

Yeah uh, we kinda tried that too. So Ultima just made the whole "point" thing even stricter to qualify for to the point where even this wouldn't qualify.