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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

I have a question. Well, it's about Sut-Typhon (Yog-Sothoth of Nasuverse). Soo we know that this guy is omnipresent within Nasuverse (He is all possible dimensions, he is outside of the "our universe, beyond the ultimate gate", he borders all possible dimensions and tied to everything (see Salem dialogues)).

1) Shouldn't this guy be at least 1-A on VSbattles?
2) How does this thing works? cause we already have the Root and was said that emptiness is a some sort of protection from Outer Universe and Root gives powers to MHXX to protect Nasuverse from Outer Gods.
 
MrUnderlord said:
I have a question. Well, it's about Sut-Typhon (Yog-Sothoth of Nasuverse). Soo we know that this guy is omnipresent within Nasuverse (He is all possible dimensions, he is outside of the "our universe, beyond the ultimate gate", he borders all possible dimensions and tied to everything (see Salem dialogues)).

1) Shouldn't this guy be at least 1-A on VSbattles?
2) How does this thing works? cause we already have the Root and was said that emptiness is a some sort of protection from Outer Universe and Root gives powers to MHXX to protect Nasuverse from Outer Gods.
Click to expand...

Speaking of outer gods

does this Yog guy, will it affect the tiers of the foreigners?
 
Rakih_Elyan said:
Like persona? The manifestation of human thought?
Click to expand...
Nope. Sut-Typhone (Yog) exist beyond Root domain (and beyond universe) => It cannot manifest itself, because 1) It transcends dimensions (after all, it exists as all dimensions, all within them and everything beyond them) and 2) The Root blocks Outer Gods from free manifestation in the world (unless someone makes a breach in the laws of reality so that Outer Gods possessing one or the other another form [Like Nyarlathotep] could influence this reality)
 
MrUnderlord said:
Nope. Sut-Typhone (Yog) exist beyond Root domain (and beyond universe) => It cannot manifest itself, because 1) It transcends dimensions (after all, it exists as all dimensions, all within them and everything beyond them) and 2) The Root blocks Outer Gods from free manifestation in the world (unless someone makes a breach in the laws of reality so that Outer Gods possessing one or the other another form [Like Nyarlathotep] could influence this reality)
Click to expand...
SO the outer gods are independent from the root? Are they higher than the root?
 
Rakih_Elyan said:
SO the outer gods are independent from the root? Are they higher than the root?
Click to expand...
It seems like they independent from the Root; Yog and Root CAN be opposing forces or something like that. Other Outer Gods depend on Yog (cause they came from Outer Universe (Outer Universe - Sut-Typhon))
 
MrUnderlord said:
It seems like they independent from the Root; Yog and Root CAN be opposing forces or something like that. Other Outer Gods depend on Yog (cause they came from Outer Universe (Outer Universe - Sut-Typhon))
Click to expand...
So.... Equal to Root? What is their intention in nasuverse? I even confused by their action in salem singularity.,
 
Rakih_Elyan said:
So.... Equal to Root? What is their intention in nasuverse? I even confused by their action in salem singularity.,
Click to expand...
Yog can be equal to Root to his powers (still, it cannot be said that the Root is part of the Yog (or it can be his part, but that part can repel), because, at least, it repels enough to keep the outer gods out of the world)

It seems like Outer Gods want to enter to the world just for chill? Idk. Yog doesn't want anything, it don't care; Nyarl just want to play with lifeforms and destroy their mind; Cthulhu wants break the Earth like Vulthoom
 
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MrUnderlord said:
Yog can be equal to Root to his powers (still, it cannot be said that the Root is part of the Yog (or it can be his part, but that part can repel), because, at least, it repels enough to keep the outer gods out of the world)

It seems like Outer Gods want to enter to the world just for chill? Idk. Yog doesn't want anything, it don't care; Nyarl just want to play with lifeforms and destroy their mind; Cthulhu wants break the Earth like Vulthoom
Click to expand...
do you have any scan saying the outer gods exist outside the root?
 
Ultra_instinct_issei said:
do you have any scan saying the outer gods exist outside the root?
Click to expand...
MHXX skill: Justice of World's End: A


○最果ての正義：Ａ
宇宙の最先端にして最果てである『境界』からの力。『無』を食い破る力でもあり、宇宙を拡げる真理そのものとも。
別宇宙の上位存在たちですら追い返す『宇宙のバランスを取る』パゥワーだが、XXはよく理解していない。


Justice at the Edge of the Universe: A

This is the power from "Boundary," which is the most forefront and the farthest end of the universe. It is also the power to break through "nothingness" and the truth itself that expands the universe.

It is a power that "balances the universe" and drives back even the higher beings of other universes, but XX does not understand it well.
 
and Kiara (summer form) says to Abigail:

It may not be my place to say this, but...a Foreigner?
My understanding is that consorting with Servants of that sort is dangerous.
And I sense something especially sinister from that Abigail girl. A remote universe beyond even the Buddha's reach... I cannot help but to be intrigued...
Oh, no, I am absolutely not saying that because I am envious of her swimsuit that absolutely screams "cute!"

(If Buddha can reach any point in Root domain, than that is another scan)
 
TypeOU said:
It doesn't mention the root even once, nor does it imply that it's from a place beyond the root.
Click to expand...
Well, the Root is often referred to as the "Boundary". The description of the ability says that this Boundary is the beginning of the universe and its farthest end (does it remind you of anything? Like all existence came from the Root and one day shall return to it, no?) and it is also said that this is a force capable of breaking through Nothingness (it is not particularly clear what is meant by this: emptiness or something else). It is also said that the Outer Gods are from another universe, which, at least, is not the same universe for which this Boundary applies
 
TypeOU said:
yes, yes, if only the root encompassed the multiverse rather than a single universe.
Click to expand...
in terms of Nasuverse, Universe mean something, that encompassed space and time. Parallel Worlds and Adjacent Worlds (aka multiverse) aka dimensions (Fate worlds, Tsukihime worlds etc) exists as part of Universe through different trees of time. Thus, in this sense, "Universe" is used as a term denoting something really great and huge (just as it is often used in the Boundary of Emptiness and Tsukihime).
 
Need to understand that Outer Universe (Sut-Typhon) exist beyond Adjacent and Parallel Worlds, cause Buddha have a reach to every dimension within Root domain and he can't reach the Outer Universe. Also see description of MHXX ability (Universe in Nasuverse also can use to term the verse). Thus, the Sut-Typhon (and because of that and other Outer Gods) exist beyond Root's domain (that's why this guys are so dangerous to World and existence)
 
MrUnderlord said:
Well, the Root is often referred to as the "Boundary". The description of the ability says that this Boundary is the beginning of the universe and its farthest end (does it remind you of anything? Like all existence came from the Root and one day shall return to it, no?) and it is also said that this is a force capable of breaking through Nothingness (it is not particularly clear what is meant by this: emptiness or something else). It is also said that the Outer Gods are from another universe, which, at least, is not the same universe for which this Boundary applies
Click to expand...
That is the "Root", that is, the thing that, by being called Root, becomes something else. Boundaries are actually really important in this concept, as its the bounding through name that makes "[ ]" into "not-[ ]", but [ ] is not a boundary itself, for the same reason that it cannot be given a name.
The Root that is refered to as "Kara" or [ ] is the basically the opposite of a boundary, as it is a superposition of opposites and begets all causes. Kara no Kyoukai's name could be taken as a reference of this - Garden of Sinners in english, Kara no Kyoukai (Boundary of Emptiness) in JP.

If anything, the Root as a source of "Directivity" is that from which boundaries originate instead of a boundary itself.
 
MrUnderlord said:
in terms of Nasuverse, Universe mean something, that encompassed space and time. Parallel Worlds and Adjacent Worlds (aka multiverse) aka dimensions (Fate worlds, Tsukihime worlds etc) exists as part of Universe through different trees of time. Thus, in this sense, "Universe" is used as a term denoting something really great and huge (just as it is often used in the Boundary of Emptiness and Tsukihime).
Click to expand...
That's just reading it in a way that is convenient to you. hell, your quotes uses the word "other universes" or "a remote universe", rather than "outside of the Universe". No matter how you look at it, outer gods are just in universes of a higher order than ours (well, the ones we see in the nasuverse works) but still part of the multiverse/root
 
LehenDuo said:
That is the "Root", that is, the thing that, by being called Root, becomes something else. Boundaries are actually really important in this concept, as its the bounding through name that makes "[ ]" into "not-[ ]", but [ ] is not a boundary itself, for the same reason that it cannot be given a name.
The Root that is refered to as "Kara" or [ ] is the basically the opposite of a boundary, as it is a superposition of opposites and begets all causes. Kara no Kyoukai's name could be taken as a reference of this - Garden of Sinners in english, Kara no Kyoukai (Boundary of Emptiness) in JP.

If anything, the Root as a source of "Directivity" is that from which boundaries originate instead of a boundary itself.
Click to expand...
Sooo... Are you saying that MHXX has the power to tear apart 「　」 (nothingness) in order to repel the Outer Gods? And where did she get such power from then? And then what is the Boundary referred to in the description of the ability?
 
TypeOU said:
That's just reading it in a way that is convenient to you. hell, your quotes uses the word "other universes" or "a remote universe", rather than "outside of the Universe". No matter how you look at it, outer gods are just in universes of a higher order than ours (well, the ones we see in the nasuverse works) but still part of the multiverse/root
Click to expand...
Then it turns out that the Yog-Sothoth contains the entire multiverse of the Nasuverse within itself. No, it contains entire Nasuverse according to the Lavinia
 
TypeOU said:
isn't it sad?
Click to expand...
You said that the Outer Gods (including Yog) are part of the Root. According to Lavinia's description, the Yog is all possible dimensions; that which is beyond the universe, beyond the Ultimate Gate; and that which is adjacent to all dimensions and connected with everything. Then, according to your own words, he must be literally omnipotent inside the Nasuverse.

But you know what? He still cannot let other Outer Gods into existence (being literally everything at the same time), while the Outer Gods are opposed by MHXX, which (again, according to your own words that the Outer Gods are part of the Root) is also just a part of Yog-Sothoth.

It turns out to be a contradiction, I suppose. That's why I think that Outer Gods beyond the Root's domain and the Root acts as boundary that protects existence from the Outer Gods
 
MrUnderlord said:
in terms of Nasuverse, Universe mean something, that encompassed space and time.
Click to expand...
In the usual translation, Universe actually deals exclusively with Time. Space is never mentioned in the description of it, unless you somehow imply space from the existence of time (following space-time continuum understanding of reality) or argue that, as energy/phenomena and its conservation are mentioned, it "includes" space.

MrUnderlord said:
Parallel Worlds and Adjacent Worlds (aka multiverse) aka dimensions (Fate worlds, Tsukihime worlds etc) exists as part of Universe through different trees of time. Thus, in this sense,
Click to expand...
You just jumbled all the terms and made a bit of a mess here.

MrUnderlord said:
"Universe" is used as a term denoting something really great and huge (just as it is often used in the Boundary of Emptiness and Tsukihime).
Click to expand...
I don't know what is the exact term you are referring to, as many kanjis could be translated as "Universe" if not following a especially rule, but the term to denote the highest order, I would argue, would be 宙 (ruby Sora, or Sky/Heavens), given that 宙, or it's "principle", was said to be of an order that encompass all, "above" even AT:Earth.
 
LehenDuo said:
In the usual translation, Universe actually deals exclusively with Time. Space is never mentioned in the description of it, unless you somehow imply space from the existence of time (following space-time continuum understanding of reality) or argue that, as energy/phenomena and its conservation are mentioned, it "includes" space.
Click to expand...
1) I talked about space-time continuums (well, time can't exist without space);
LehenDuo said:
You just jumbled all the terms and made a bit of a mess here.
Click to expand...
2) As I know, Parallel Worlds are just timelines that do not have a common basis among themselves, unlike Adjacent Worlds (for example, routes Unlimited Blade Works [if I understand the meaning of the term Adjacent Worlds correctly] can be regarded as such, while Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Apocrypha are Parallel Worlds).

I meant that all worlds can be divided into conditional categories according to their orientation (Fate, Tsukihime and others)
LehenDuo said:
I don't know what is the exact term you are referring to, as many kanjis could be translated as "Universe" if not following a especially rule, but the term to denote the highest order, I would argue, would be 宙 (ruby Sora, or Sky/Heavens), given that 宙, or it's "principle", was said to be of an order that encompass all, "above" even AT:Earth.
Click to expand...
I meant that 宇宙, Uchuu
 
LehenDuo said:
That is the "Root", that is, the thing that, by being called Root, becomes something else. Boundaries are actually really important in this concept, as its the bounding through name that makes "[ ]" into "not-[ ]", but [ ] is not a boundary itself, for the same reason that it cannot be given a name.
The Root that is refered to as "Kara" or [ ] is the basically the opposite of a boundary, as it is a superposition of opposites and begets all causes. Kara no Kyoukai's name could be taken as a reference of this - Garden of Sinners in english, Kara no Kyoukai (Boundary of Emptiness) in JP.

If anything, the Root as a source of "Directivity" is that from which boundaries originate instead of a boundary itself.
Click to expand...
And, I've been thinking a little, do you understand that lore of MHXX wasn't written by Nasu personally? So in this context, it may well be (and most likely) the Root is implied
 
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