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STRONGEST One-Punch Man Discussion Thread!

Cryo123 said:
No it's not. It'd be calc stacking if we said the destruction he caused was 1/3 of the Moon Jumps, so he's 1/3 the strength.

Calculating the actual strength of the material for future calculations is not calc stacking.
Click to expand...
I was entertaining the idea but
  • Character A has a certain attack potency through a calculation. They made a 1mm dent in character B's shield composed of a fictional material. But character C destroyed the whole 30mm thick shield, so character C is thirty times as strong as character A.
one of the examples of calc stacking according to the page so, yeah
 
Cryo123 said:
No it's not. It'd be calc stacking if we said the destruction he caused was 1/3 of the Moon Jumps, so he's 1/3 the strength.

Calculating the actual strength of the material for future calculations is not calc stacking.
Click to expand...
Well first of all, no that's not calc stacking, that's basic scaling. And even then, that's wrong. If he caused more damage to it than the Moon jump, you'd just scale him above the Moon jump.

You're using the AP of Saitama's Moon jump to get that strength, so you'd be stacking a calculation. That's the fact of the matter.
 
ZillertheBucko said:
I was entertaining the idea but
  • Character A has a certain attack potency through a calculation. They made a 1mm dent in character B's shield composed of a fictional material. But character C destroyed the whole 30mm thick shield, so character C is thirty times as strong as character A.
one of the examples of calc stacking according to the page so, yeah
Click to expand...
But those aren't the same thing. In that example, they didn't find the durability of the shield, they just said "well person C did 30 times more damage, using character A's agreed AP, we can multiply that number by 30". They're 100% different.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Well first of all, no that's not calc stacking, that's basic scaling. And even then, that's wrong. If he caused more damage to it than the Moon jump, you'd just scale him above the Moon jump.

You're using the AP of Saitama's Moon jump to get that strength, so you'd be stacking a calculation. That's the fact of the matter.
Click to expand...
Look at my other comment. This is different

Here's an example of calc stacking: Robert made a 1 mm hole in John's shield. Roxy made a 30 mm hole in that same shield. Using Robert's accepted AP of 200 Ninatons, we can multiply that by the 30 as that's how many times stronger Roxan is, coming out to 6,000 Ninatons.

Here's what's happening in this case: Robert made a 50 cubic meter hole in a metal alien ship. Due to how the clouds split, the feat was calculated to be 200 Ninatons of tnt. This means that the fragmentation strength of the alien ship is 40 Ninatons per cubic meter. Roxan manages to fragment 100 cubic meters of this same alien metal. At this point, it's just like using the frgamentation values for rock, 40 x 100 = 400 Ninatons of tnt.

I hope that it's obvious how different these scenarios are.
 
Cryo123 said:
Look at my other comment. This is different

Here's an example of calc stacking: Robert made a 1 mm hole in John's shield. Roxy made a 30 mm hole in that same shield. Using Robert's accepted AP of 200 Ninatons, we can multiply that by the 30 as that's how many times stronger Roxan is, coming out to 6,000 Ninatons.

Here's what's happening in this case: Robert made a 50 cubic meter hole in a metal alien ship. Due to how the clouds split, the feat was calculated to be 200 Ninatons of tnt. This means that the fragmentation strength of the alien ship is 40 Ninatons per cubic meter. Roxan manages to fragment 100 cubic meters of this same alien metal. At this point, it's just like using the frgamentation values for rock, 40 x 100 = 400 Ninatons of tnt.

I hope that it's obvious how different these scenarios are.
Click to expand...
At best, both are calc stacking. This method fails to consider the possibility of characters on the same level as Robert's 200 ninatons of TNT that would appear to be less powerful due to, say, condensing their attacks over a smaller area. So suddenly, characters like this would appear weaker when they're not.

Neither of these methods are reliable to use, hence why in this case, Boros causing more damage to the ship would simply scale him unquantifiably above the Moon jump rather than doing any of this with it.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
At best, both are calc stacking. This method fails to consider the possibility of characters on the same level as Robert's 200 ninatons of TNT that would appear to be less powerful due to, say, condensing their attacks over a smaller area. So suddenly, characters like this would appear weaker when they're not.

Neither of these methods are reliable to use, hence why in this case, Boros causing more damage to the ship would simply scale him unquantifiably above the Moon jump rather than doing any of this with it.
Click to expand...
This just alls under the AP DC discrepancy, basic stuff
 
CloverDragon03 said:
At best, both are calc stacking.
Click to expand...
No where in the rules is the second example of calc stacking. So you can think it is, but until the rules are updated, it isn't
CloverDragon03 said:
This method fails to consider the possibility of characters on the same level as Robert's 200 ninatons of TNT that would appear to be less powerful due to, say, condensing their attacks over a smaller area. So suddenly, characters like this would appear weaker when they're not.
Click to expand...
I mean unless it's stated they have that ability, (which neither Boros or Saitama do), it's a nothing burger. Also, by this logic, outlier calcs don't exist. All lower feats are just characters condesning their attack's range.
 
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CloverDragon03 said:
Hence why this method is as unreliable as it is. It doesn't account for the basic difference between AP and DC
Click to expand...
No? The worst it can do is get a result lower than what they might actually be, but it would still be vastly more accurate than the current method of just dumb upscaling stuff
 
Cryo123 said:
No where in the rules is the second example of calc stacking. So you can think it is, but until the rules are updated, it isn't
Click to expand...
I think I'd have a good idea as to what is and isn't calc stacking. Using an already calculated value the way you plan on doing here is in fact calc stacking.
Cryo123 said:
I mean unless it's stated they have that ability, (which neither Boros or Saitama do), it's a nothing burger. Also, by this logic, outlier calcs don't exist. All lower feats are just characters condesning their attack's range.
Click to expand...
Condensing attack range is not something that needs to be stated, it's like the most basic thing anyone can really do, especially for a verse like OPM. Also, the "outlier calcs don't exist" point is completely moot. Context is key. If a character is putting their all into a feat, they wouldn't be condensing their attack range to begin with. Say a character puts their all into Feat A, but it's lower than Feat B which they casually did. Feat B would be an outlier for conflicting with what's shown to be the character's full strength.
ZillertheBucko said:
No? The worst it can do is get a result lower than what they might actually be, but it would still be vastly more accurate than the current method of just dumb upscaling stuff
Click to expand...
The use of scaling like this is far more reliable since it doesn't involve a method like this that I have already noted to be unreliable.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
The use of scaling like this is far more reliable since it doesn't involve a method like this that I have already noted to be unreliable.
Click to expand...
This isn’t an argument, saying “I’m right because it’s true” means nothing
while some crappy ass scaling chain often just leaves characters blatantly downplayed, it’s impossible to downgrade people via a calc, since the lower end of DC is ignored, and the maximum is the only thing that matters. Under the current system, pretty much every character on the wiki is going to be lower than they actually should be, but calc stacking makes them closer to accurate, even if it could end up being too low or something. It’s literally just the normal calc system, but twice in a row
 
Even just restricting to a single layer of calc stacking would make a massive but necessary difference, the rule against it is kinda just blatantly stupid
 
That's an issue with the rule itself. As it stands now, this is how it is. You can make a thread about the rules regarding calc stacking if you wish, I'm just kinda the messenger here. VSBW is pretty strict on calc stacking

It's not really "I'm right because it's true," it's more like "I'm right because this is just how it is right now." I'm not opposed to someone making a thread about this if they feel it's necessary.
 
when snek is fighting suiryu he specifically pictures watchdog man in his head, and then Saitama immediately after
an interesting coincidence
 
Calc stacking is allowed if the values calculated can't magically change, such as size

Take that as you will
 
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