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One Piece: Gear 5th Additions

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Jibz said:
Kaidou already has the knowledge that he has indeed resurrected once already. It's not like Kaidou's bumfuck stupid and the fact Luffy concurs with his message already hints to its validity. Unless you want to say that Luffy doesn't even know the full mechanics behind it and thus his statement is also invalid.
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In all fairness, Kaido has absolutely no knowledge whatsoever about Luffy's ressurection mechanics OR the drums of liberation, or anything alike.
All he saw Luffy doing was the gear second stance (which Lucci somehow associated with doping on sight) and likely commented on that.

Basically it looks like so long as Luffy forces himself to be in G5 or continue tapping into it, the heart Mechanics would continue restorting his heartbeat or forcing it to beat faster again.
This is left in the air, though. I'm still on the ressurection camp without "limited", but a brackets note that clarifies he can only do it once until otherwise is shown.
 
LordGinSama said:
Because G5 is has a very limited amount of time it can be used
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yeah all transformations have a drawback, that's not really special
LordGinSama said:
if he can't enter G5 then he can't resurrect.
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headcanon.
LordGinSama said:
Kaido was obviously talking about him dying after G5 wears off, which he nearly did after G5 wore off but used it to restore his stamina right afterwards.
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He was talking about the drawback of Luffy fastening his heartbeat to match the drums of liberation.
SnookB said:
In all fairness, Kaido has absolutely no knowledge whatsoever about Luffy's ressurection mechanics OR the drums of liberation, or anything alike.
All he saw Luffy doing was the gear second stance (which Lucci somehow associated with doping on sight) and likely commented on that.
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He said it after his hair changed back to white, so him just assuming its gear two makes no sense. He does however know if Luffy over-exerts himself like that he'd die, something Luffy concurs with
SnookB said:
Basically it looks like so long as Luffy forces himself to be in G5 or continue tapping into it, the heart Mechanics would continue restorting his heartbeat or forcing it to beat faster again.
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This is another assumption, one that makes little sense when you think about how all of luffy's gears have consistently had drawbacks
SnookB said:
This is left in the air, though. I'm still on the ressurection camp without "limited", but a brackets note that clarifies he can only do it once until otherwise is shown.
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100% agree with this
 
Jibz said:
yeah all transformations have a drawback, that's not really special.
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Which takes away from my point how? Not all drawbacks have the same cost.
Jibz said:
headcanon.
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Could literally say the same thing about your argument so this isn't much of an argument given that you aren't even explaining how it's "head canon."
Jibz said:
He was talking about the drawback of Luffy fastening his heartbeat to match the drums of liberation.
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Uhhh this isn't true either, Luffy has already shown the ability to fasten his heartbeat without any negative consequences due to his rubber heart (I.E G2, Lucci explains it very clearly.)
 
LordGinSama said:
Could literally say the same thing about your argument so this isn't much of an argument given that you aren't even explaining how it's "head canon."
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"if he can't enter g5 he can't resurrect"

you know what, this isn't even headcanon it's just poor syntax. So maybe i've misconstrued your argument. Please elaborate here. Also my argument seems to have been somewhat accepted by both KT and Snoob is now just baseless headcanon. Okay.
LordGinSama said:
Uhhh this isn't true either, Luffy has already shown the ability to fasten his heartbeat without any negative consequences due to his rubber heart (I.E G2, Lucci explains it very clearly.)
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Isn't G2 literally stated to decrease his lifespan, and even then merely beating his heart for gear 2 doesn't equate to beating his heart to match the drums of liberation because they are clearly two different things in the series. And as for how this isn't true, the panelling seems to side with me on that regard.
 
Jibz said:
"if he can't enter g5 he can't resurrect"

you know what, this isn't even headcanon it's just poor syntax. So maybe i've misconstrued your argument.
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Aye its fine, just a typical misconception that happens to everyone.
Jibz said:
Please elaborate here.
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Basically what i'm saying is that his Drums of Liberation (heartbeat.) is what revives him and replenishs his stamina.
Jibz said:
Also my argument seems to have been somewhat accepted by both KT and Snoob is now just baseless headcanon. Okay.
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"Somewhat." =/= real acceptance.
Jibz said:
Isn't G2 literally stated to decrease his lifespan,
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Pre-timeskip. Post Time-skip doesn't have that weakness anymore iirc.
Jibz said:
and even then merely beating his heart for gear 2 doesn't equate to beating his heart to match the drums of liberation because they are clearly two different things in the series. And as for how this isn't true, the panelling seems to side with me on that regard.
Click to expand...
This part is true however so I can concede on that.
 
Basically what i'm saying is that his Drums of Liberation (heartbeat.) is what revives him and replenishs his stamina.
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When luffy dies, the sfx played right after is "ba-dump" so the assumption that it is the drums of liberation that revives him is a fair one. However that was when Joyboy first awakened, there were special circumstances at play (such as the resin) which is why im so iffy to begin with.

Because to me his res seemed to be a byproduct of his awakening into gear 5th rather than him merely just resing himself. And that's why i believe we should hold off a definitive "yeah luffy can just res himself when he dies" sort of notion before we can verifiable proof, because it makes 0 sense when looking at Kaido's and Luffy's later interaction when he goes back into Gear 5th.
LordGinSama said:
"Somewhat." =/= real acceptance.
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I said that because i didn't want to misconstrue their points by accident. But to me it did seem like a full agreement since they conceded to a specification of a one time use on their page. Which in hindsight should have been enough for me to feel confident in my assessment of their belief.
LordGinSama said:
Pre-timeskip. Post Time-skip doesn't have that weakness anymore iirc.
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He uses gear 2 moves rather then actively using his gear 2 form, so i always presumed he found a work around. However ill concede if that isn't the case and he indeed doesnt have that weakness anymore. It still wouldn't matter since the heartbeat increase in Gear 2 isn't comparable to that of gear 5.
 
Jibz said:
He said it after his hair changed back to white
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He made note that it's a zoan transformation, or at least akin to it. But he has no reason to know about the drums of liberation.
Jibz said:
luffy's gears have consistently had drawbacks
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G5's drawback seems to be on his base, though. His stamina is 100% when he's back in G5 even though falling out of it nearly turned him to a husk in seconds moments prior.
Jibz said:
100% agree with this
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Make it 200%
I'd much rather we stick with a safer thing until further showings
 
Honestly, we're all more or less headcanon-ing. And for good reason.
Luffy did show ressurection via the drums. And the drums re-beat when he was dying again, so there's consistency in: Luffy dies too suddenly/Is dying slowly=drums will act up

But there's also the fact that we don't know it'll CONSTANTLY occur, mostly because the gear itself is still fresh and all.

I'm honestly with KT 100% on this. Ressurection even if done ONCE in battle is ressurection. Its reliance on the heartbeat drum doesn't make it "limited", just conditional.
I'm sure we'll see G5 more in the future and this'll change, but for now going off what's canonically shown is the best bet.
 
SnookB said:
He made note that it's a zoan transformation, or at least akin to it. But he has no reason to know about the drums of liberation.
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He knew Luffy was running out of energy yet trying to re-enter Gear 5th with him stating that it'll kill him if he tries, to which i once again have to point out luffy concurs with that sentiment
SnookB said:
And the drums re-beat when he was dying again, so there's consistency in: Luffy dies too suddenly/Is dying slowly=drums will act up
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Running out of energy =/= dying, rereading 1045 there really isnt any evidence he was actually about to die again whilst there is evidence for him running out of energy, the mentions of Luffy "dying again" are due to Luffy trying to match the rhythm and because Kaidou was finna gunna kill him. (please correct me if im wrong because i could have sworn there was a mention of him about to die due to the drawbacks of the first time he used Gear 5th and not something else)
SnookB said:
I'm honestly with KT 100% on this. Ressurection even if done ONCE in battle is ressurection. Its reliance on the heartbeat drum doesn't make it "limited", just conditional.
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Agreed
SnookB said:
I'm sure we'll see G5 more in the future and this'll change, but for now going off what's canonically shown is the best bet.
Click to expand...
100%
 
Jibz said:
rereading 1045 there really isnt any evidence he was actually about to die again whilst there is evidence for him running out of energy,
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I'll have to disagree with that specifically, because we already know true death in OP is confirmed via one's voice vanishing:
Screenshot_4.png

When he fell OUT of Gear 5, Momo immidiately said:
Screenshot_2.png


He was beginning to die again. Gear Five just undid that via the heart-drums.
Voice=Haki=Presence=One's soul
If they say the "voice" is dying out that means their life force is vanishing altogether.

AFTERWARDS he did the drums to force his heart to beat again, then Kaido commented about Luffy risking his life (likely due to realizing he's basically using this transformation as a way to stay alive forcibly)
 
SnookB said:
When he fell OUT of Gear 5, Momo immidiately said:
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YES! Thats the scan that i must have completely zipped past me when rereading, i knew it, i could have sworn there was atleast 1 mention of Luffy dying due to exhaustion in 1045.
SnookB said:
AFTERWARDS he did the drums to force his heart to beat again, then Kaido commented about Luffy risking his life (likely due to realizing he's basically using this transformation as a way to stay alive forcibly)
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Being nearly on the verge of death isn't anywhere near actually dying and restarting so this is just stamina manipulation.

I
 
Jibz said:
Being nearly on the verge of death isn't anywhere near actually dying and restarting so this is just stamina manipulation.
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Yup. That's why the ressurection is for the initial revival, not that feat.
That just helps for the Stamina Manip ability being added
 
So we're all fine with a 1 time clarification for res and stamina manip? If so it seems there's nothing left for me to argue here, as everything else seems up to snuff.
 
KingTempest said:
oh, it counts as this


Should this be flat out NPI?
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I think it was supposed to emulated that of Busoshoku Haki as similar to Haki, Luffy is able to hit Enel's real body despite his intangibility.

EDIT: It is not like Luffy physically interact with lightning as he clearly did in Gear 5th. I don't know if that feat of him kicking lightning in Skypeia counts
 
KobsterHope07 said:
EDIT: It is not like Luffy physically interact with lightning as he clearly did in Gear 5th. I don't know if that feat of him kicking lightning in Skypeia counts
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Honestly, this makes sense. In skypiea Lufy deflects lightning because his natural elemental counter to Enel allowed him to be able to "touch" lightning, but not alter it. We don't see the lightning take a different shape or anything, it just gets deflected as it would if a haki user made contact with it to deflect it.

VS Kaido Luffy grabs the lightning, then makes it zig-zaggy when he throws it (clearly a thing lightning SHOULDN'T do and Oda never draws UNTIL Luffy actively interacts with it in G5), then does it with another bolt where he not only freezes the lightning mid-strike, but causes it to have a rebound-like effect and bend when he leaps off it, a thing lightning obviously shouldn't do either.
NPI for lightning should be added for G5, while base Luffy keeps the limited intangibility negation due to far more limited interactions with that element;
 
KobsterHope07 said:
I think it was supposed to emulated that of Busoshoku Haki as similar to Haki, Luffy is able to hit Enel's real body despite his intangibility.
Click to expand...
Makes sense
KobsterHope07 said:
EDIT: It is not like Luffy physically interact with lightning as he clearly did in Gear 5th. I don't know if that feat of him kicking lightning in Skypeia counts
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Definitely should count, he flat out kicked a bolt of lightning in a different direction
KobsterHope07 said:
Also, shouldn't Transmutation also include that Luffy can transfer his rubber properties to intangible matter like lightning as shown in 1047
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WrongIdea21 said:
I already said that things earlier and nobody care.
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If we accept that then I can add it
KobsterHope07 said:
Curious on this one. Can I see the scans for these? I think I know of the latter with Bajrang Gun but can't remember the one with the giant body
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https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/op_nextlvl_1045_008.png

Looks like lightning's coming off
 
SnookB said:
His Gigant size needs to be calced off of Kaido's own size. I did suggest T2 but KT said it might be 3
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His Head as big as Kaido's Dragon form's head, Comparing to the rooftop door Kaido's head little bit bigger, yeah maybe around 75 meters, this is my random Assumption but I think Luffy's height not more than 800 meters.
 
WrongIdea21 said:
His Head as big as Kaido's Dragon form's head, Comparing to the rooftop door Kaido's head little bit bigger, yeah maybe around 75 meters, this is my random Assumption but I think Luffy's height not more than 800 meters.
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Maybe. Kaido seems bigger than the eye by a good bit. Idk if he hits 1km or higher because of it depending on the skull/eye size, but we'll see. Type 2 for now's good until there are calcs for it
 
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