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NOW'S YOUR CHANCE TO [[Drink a cup of tea]]: Undertale VS Deltarune(was GRACE)(Not Usable anymore)
- Thread starter JustANormalLemon
- Start date
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- #163
Only one vote for grace them, I will wait instead of voting my self
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Asgore massively upscales from 0.024 Tons, Spamton NEO is 0.013 tons
so, asgore has roughly a 2x~ AP advantage
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No, he is 316 megajoules scaling to Berdly’s Coaster feat
Regardless of the AP and durability advantage, Asgore outskills him
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i keep forgetting chapt 2 peeps scale to that-
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- #167
Surprised of how smoth It walked just one vote left
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quick question
the profile mentions 3 times the firepower as a justification for his AP, so why wouldn't he scale to 948 megajoules exactly?
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pretty sure they dont actually take that seriously, and just assumed its spamton's usual strange/misleading dialogue
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questionable choice but okay
and the consensus on bluelight special?
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Bluelight Specil isn’t something Spamton starts with unless he is really low on health, but Asgore would be more likely to cut and burn his wires faster before he is able to do it.
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Considering the AP gap and the fact that he doesn't have 2 other people helping, I fail to see how cutting the wires would be anywhere near a viable option
especially considering that spamton implies that he's more likely to use bluelight special in a 1v1, based on "in a 1 on 1 neo never loses" and then he proceeds to use it
If asgore is going to not only be cutting the wires slower than even a single member of the ?!@# squad, but also gets bluelighted, then there is quite literally no skill that could be able to help him, since he absolutely cannot outlast the special and would lose eventually
especially considering that spamton implies that he's more likely to use bluelight special in a 1v1, based on "in a 1 on 1 neo never loses" and then he proceeds to use it
If asgore is going to not only be cutting the wires slower than even a single member of the ?!@# squad, but also gets bluelighted, then there is quite literally no skill that could be able to help him, since he absolutely cannot outlast the special and would lose eventually
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I'm gonna be voting for spamton neo cause grace is almost here and I feel like bluelight special's opportunity to be used is being downplayed here
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... he was in a 1v1 with Kris. Rewatch the snowgrave fight
Asgore also is waaay above any of the fun gang in skill and danmaku.
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I know, that's why I said it, wdym by this point?
irrelevant, his raw ability to cut wires is severely hindered by AP, you cannot just "skill" your way through being unable to actually hurt your opponent in a realistic way
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For instance, if Spamton is ever in the center of any pillars of flame Asgore likes to throw around, literally all of Spamton's wires go bye bye.
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Your arguing that he'd use it sooner then that.
A 2/3x AP gap. The 3x multiplier from Spamton obviously ain't used.
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still don't know what you're trying to say here
just barely over 3 times to be specific, and I never said I was using the 3 times multiplier
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See above.
Which, as you should know, is irrelevant because one of the arguments in Asgore's favor is "fire works well on wires". Remind me what Asgore spams the living cum out of again?
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again, the AP is still 3 times lower than what was used to destroy the wires, it's questionable at best that swinging around a sword with higher AP kris can only cut like 1 or two wires at a time or something but meanwhile Asgore's weaker fire would be able to destroy them just as easily
and this doesn't even account for stuff like spamton using his air manipulation as a natural counter to the fire, or has anybody considered that there's no reason asgore should know to try and abuse the wires? Why should he have knowledge of that weak point at all. Unless it ends up like the basement spamton fight (As opposed to snowgrave, where cutting wires isn't even an option) where he blatantly expresses a want to remove the strings, and asgore wants to spare spamton this way thinking that it'd help him, it's not even realistic that he'd know that the wires are the win condition. There's no way that he's going to find out that he should be directing his attention to the wires.
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Apologies, kris cutting the wires through unclear means
unless the assumption is that they just cut the wires using their weapons since, that'd probably be the common sense thing for the characters to do
but the point still stands since things like spamton's big explosion and whatnot don't damage the wires at all either
unless the assumption is that they just cut the wires using their weapons since, that'd probably be the common sense thing for the characters to do
but the point still stands since things like spamton's big explosion and whatnot don't damage the wires at all either
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This isn't "trident vs wires" this is "fire vs wires". Asgore is gonna hit them wires with fire whether he's actually aiming for it or not. As for the AP thing, not only does fire and heat have a tendency to ignore durability to an extent, but the wires were being one-shot by the fun gang, the difference between the wires and Asgore's AP(which he already VERY MUCH so upscales from) isn't exactly the best for Spamton's chances.
And let's also consider that fire likes to stick to flammable things and spread, just one single hit of fire to the wires could easily take half if not all of the wires out in decently quick succession considering Asgore isn't about to pause and smell the grass
And let's also consider that fire likes to stick to flammable things and spread, just one single hit of fire to the wires could easily take half if not all of the wires out in decently quick succession considering Asgore isn't about to pause and smell the grass
Which creates circular scaling as now the wires are no-selling an attack that harms Kris whom can one-shot the wires. And Spamton scales to Kris... also all of Deltarune Chapter 2 is now two one-shots above the feat for like, 0 reason.
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- #183
Guys, you all know that
1- Kris couldn't cut all wires beacuse he was being trowed to them, ehile holding his sword foward, susie was using him like a dart
2- In snowgrave route thanos to being a X1 kris can't guet to the wires thanks to being a meele fighter without projectiles
(And susie didn't used rude buster sinse trowing Kris a much better solution sinse don't need TP and is more spamable)
Idk why I wrote It, forgot the context half way
1- Kris couldn't cut all wires beacuse he was being trowed to them, ehile holding his sword foward, susie was using him like a dart
2- In snowgrave route thanos to being a X1 kris can't guet to the wires thanks to being a meele fighter without projectiles
(And susie didn't used rude buster sinse trowing Kris a much better solution sinse don't need TP and is more spamable)
Idk why I wrote It, forgot the context half way
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- #184
Oh, and I'm kinda lost, any new votes?
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Incorrect, the game gives you the option to snap wires manually with any of the squad individually
I voted for Spamton, due to 3 times AP advantage and the chance of Asgore cutting the wires with fire being slim for multiple reasons
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holy **** what happened here? what has the dog done?
anyways, didn't asgore fight in a war where his enemies are 1.149 tons vs his 0.024 Tons? i dont think that AP gap REALLY matters here when its implied he fought (or at least kept his ground) against Building level+ characters.
anyways, didn't asgore fight in a war where his enemies are 1.149 tons vs his 0.024 Tons? i dont think that AP gap REALLY matters here when its implied he fought (or at least kept his ground) against Building level+ characters.
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There’s nothing to suggest that Asgore wouldn’t be aiming his fire at the main body of Spamton, in fact, why wouldn’t he be aiming at his soul? I believe that was what a person said earlier in the thread. Either way, even if you ignore that Asgore has full control of what is fire is going to hit, there’s 0 reason to assume that he’s going to keep doing it until they’re all destroyed, especially since it only has an affect on Spamton when every last one of them is gone. If Spamton even says anything about the strings then Asgore would be assuming that cutting the strings would help him, which he wouldn’t do in a fight
May I remind you that he upscales from his own AP value as well?
you are assuming wires are flammable
I do not need to explain the problem with this. Even if they are flammable the wires still don’t make contact so there’s a low chance that they make them all catch on fire
Kris uses a weapon bro, his AP is going to be higher than his own durability that’s not how circular scaling works
And even ignoring all of that, bluelight special still exists
Overall, Spamton wins
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can you prove that they AREN'T flammable?
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- #189
1- well, I forgot It, but them we can say that they were jumping to hit the wires? Well
2- Vote counted
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massive reverse burden of proof
also wires typically non flammable irl
also this is still reverse proof, since you're the one claiming the wires are flammable
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also there's factors that I'm confused on with any undertale/deltarune battle
like, doesnt the player attack the enemy physically while the enemy attacks your SOUL during fights? if that's the case then where does either of their resistances to soul attacks come from? Why wouldn't they just instantly shoot eachother's soul and die
like, doesnt the player attack the enemy physically while the enemy attacks your SOUL during fights? if that's the case then where does either of their resistances to soul attacks come from? Why wouldn't they just instantly shoot eachother's soul and die
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yes, but we can't just assume something's resistant to fire just because it's a wire. unless it's shown specifically to be less damaged/undamaged from fire it should be assumed it can be burned.
yes, specifically frisk use their fists and punch the shit out of everyone around them as they don't have magic themselves.
Asgore, undyne, and papyrus have shown to be able to fight each other (or other monsters) with magic without the issue of their souls being destroyed from the magic, and said feat scales to the entire underground.
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Kris's AP isn't going to be two one-shots higher then his durability, why? Well that's due to the wee little face Kris doesnt one-shot literally everyone in chapter 2. The issue we have here is that its circular cause Spamton scales above Kris, AND it's inconsistent cause everyone being two one-shots above the feat itself when its like, the highest non- 8-A feat in the verse right now
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Thats grace
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Assuming flammability by default is literally completely baseless, especially since it’s wires that connect to a non flammable machine. Also being flammable and being fire resistant are different things, so no, incorrect there.
Also about the soul thing, does this mean that monsters choose not to attack the Souls of other monsters or that they just are only able to attack the player’s one? And where does Asgore’s resistance to soul attacks even come from if he hasn’t been attacked in that way before? Are souls and soul attacks supposed to scale to AP and Dura too? I’m much more familiar with deltarune than undertale, all I know is that in deltarune King was able to attack Kris physically or attack the soul.
Anyways either way, fire destroying the wires still is not going to happen, there are just too many things that make that unrealistic at best, with spamton’s winds getting in the way of fire attacks, bluelight special, Asgore not knowing about the weak spot, Asgore simply having to defend himself all the time from Spamton’s attacks
and even if we ignore all of that and he manages to cut the wires, normal Spamton still hypothetically has that 3 times AP advantage, along with his other abilities. The only argument in favor of Asgore in the entire match is “experience and skill” and knowing about weaknesses that he doesn’t. That’s quite literally it.
Again, it’s a weapon that he’s using, so stop trying to say that his dura scales or that his physical AP scales or anything like that. And what one shots are you even talking about anyways.
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News flash Ziller, Kris uses their weapon to attack everyone, and considering like, everyone scales to Kris is some way shape or form, usually by damaging those they can damage... yeah. Berdly is two one-shots above the feat he didn't tank without damage or being hurt, why? Cause he can tank hits from Kris's weapon.
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News flash Reaper, none of these things are one shots
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No-sell=one-shot. From your argument the wires tanked Spamton's explosions and such without visible damage, one no-sell/one-shot, Kris and the rest of the fun gang can one-shot these wires, that makes two one-shots.
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Fair enough on the second one, but this isn’t what circular scaling is. Kris can one shot the wires because of his weapon, but can be damaged by the explosion because they obviously are inferior to their sword. Otherwise if I were wielding a knife and could stab a Grizzly bare, I’d be able to square up with it with my bear hands and tank it’s attacks, which just isn’t how it works.
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