Minecraft Addition: Creative Mode

[HammerStrikes219]

Anyway, sticking to neutral at the moment.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Being a cheat mode in any game is absolutely an argument to not index it, same reason we don't have a debug mode for every single game in existence to give every protagonist god-mode abilities plus various levels of reality warping. As I've said, this is not a question about canon, something you ostensibly agree with. The simple fact that a game has such modes does not imply it is the intended mode, which I feel is extremely relevant. Otherwise we may as well allow Intangibility to any game with wall clipping, aye? I find this point, at least, to be common sense.

I can understand that, but the gamemode is something that's supposed to be the base game and not something that's support or secondary to survival mode, a new key for creative mode definitely makes sense when the creator published the game with creative mode and a hardcore mode, which is stated to be Minecraft... It's not just in Minecraft

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I suppose I should phrase it like this, rather than combat minor points.

I believe god mode, cheats, in-game hacks and glitches, etc aren't a situation where any objective ruling can be had. The argument will always exist- "but I can do it". Sure, this I do not deny. But the argument itself boils down to whether or not we can interpret this as an honest showing of the character in the game or a consequence of game design (or something similar, I'm not great with words).

In my opinion, no, no cheat/god/debug/what have you mode will be an honest to god actual showing of a character. This simply will not happen because it represents a slippery and, frankly, rather silly slope, one in which I can give the 7 Days to Die protagonist legitimate Existence Erasure because it does, in fact, have commands to do that.

So I do not think I can be convinced of the argument in favor of Creative. I'm afraid I'm going to remain firm on this. I am sorry if you greatly disagree.

 

[azontr]

Being a cheat mode in any game is absolutely an argument to not index it, same reason we don't have a debug mode for every single game in existence to give every protagonist god-mode abilities plus various levels of reality warping. As I've said, this is not a question about canon, something you ostensibly agree with. The simple fact that a game has such modes does not imply it is the intended mode, which I feel is extremely relevant. Otherwise we may as well allow Intangibility to any game with wall clipping, aye? I find this point, at least, to be common sense.

And for the record I am merely drawing a parallel with the wall clipping/debug mode comments, not actually suggesting you go and make a CRT for those.

I sorta dropped the canon argument when you brought up it so I don't plan on using it again.

I mean, I guess you do have a point though, I just don't see Creative Mode as any less valid just because Survival Mode happens to be the default mode for players to experience. It's put there and it's clearly an option you can choose to enjoy, and compared to the examples you gave such as wall-clipping or reality-warping, Creative is far tamer in that aspect as it merely allows you to fly, have inexhaustible resources, and makes you able to break all the blocks in the game. So like, your examples aren't very comparable to it.

But at this point, we're just treading into the realm of subjectivity here, since I can't really objectively say anything about Creative being just as valid as Survival without my own personal opinion on the matter slipping in, so like, I guess I'm neutral since I can't really debunk you, but I still agree idfk man lol.

 

[azontr]

By subjectivity, I mean, it's as you said. It depends on whether or not we view the abilities shown in Creative to be honest showings of a character's abilities. I do, you don't, so that's what I mean.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I suppose I should phrase it like this, rather than combat minor points.

I believe god mode, cheats, in-game hacks and glitches, etc aren't a situation where any objective ruling can be had. The argument will always exist- "but I can do it". Sure, this I do not deny. But the argument itself boils down to whether or not we can interpret this as an honest showing of the character in the game or a consequence of game design (or something similar, I'm not great with words).

In my opinion, no, no cheat/god/debug/what have you mode will be an honest to god actual showing of a character. This simply will not happen because it represents a slippery and, frankly, rather silly slope, one in which I can give the 7 Days to Die protagonist legitimate Existence Erasure because it does, in fact, have commands to do that.

So I do not think I can be convinced of the argument in favor of Creative. I'm afraid I'm going to remain firm on this. I am sorry if you greatly disagree.

So the only way for you to agree is if the creator states that Creative Mode is supposed to be the actual way to play the game Minecraft or something?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I sorta dropped the canon argument when you brought up it so I don't plan on using it again.

I mean, I guess you do have a point though, I just don't see Creative Mode as any less valid just because Survival Mode happens to be the default mode for players to experience. It's put there and it's clearly an option you can choose to enjoy, and compared to the examples you gave such as wall-clipping or reality-warping, Creative is far tamer in that aspect as it merely allows you to fly, have inexhaustible resources, and makes you able to break all the blocks in the game. So like, your examples aren't very comparable to it.

But at this point, we're just treading into the realm of subjectivity here, since I can't really objectively say anything about Creative being just as valid as Survival without my own personal opinion on the matter slipping in, so like, I guess I'm neutral since I can't really debunk you, but I still agree idfk man lol.

Aye, you can disagree with me and prefer OP's interpretation, but I don't see a reality that makes much sense when we use said interpretation. But, I admit that mine is a subjective view, as is any other view on this subject.

 

[azontr]

Aye, you can disagree with me and prefer OP's interpretation, but I don't see a reality that makes much sense when we use said interpretation. But, I admit that mine is a subjective view, as is any other view on this subject.

Hey, I agree, man. We both know this topic depends on subjectivity and I'm outvoted, and as I said, I haven't even played Minecraft in years, so my feelings on the topic may not be as strong as someone else's. Now if this were Terraria we were talking about then I'd be fussing a little bit.

 

[FinePoint]

As I haven't seen anything that makes the mode creative as cheats or less valid than the survival game mode, I'll agree.

Tho personally you should explain more on why it's not cheats and is apart of the main game

Hey, Monkey. The reason it's not a cheat mode is because it's not considered part of Cheat Mode.
The game has an entirely separate option for that which includes some other cheaty stuff not included in this CRT.

I strongly disagree with the notion that just because the focus of Creative Mode is different than Survival (being creative rather than... well, surviving), that it instantly makes it a cheat mode.
If we've agreed on one thing in this CRT, it's that Minecraft doesn't really have a story or canon.
Survival Mode is the default mode, but only from that perspective is Creative Mode "easier".
From Creative Mode's own perspective, it's not easier at all. Being creative is hard too.

Just because the goal is to build something cool, doesn't mean we can't index it. We have plenty of puzzle and sandbox games, and children's shows whose focus isn't fighting at all on this wiki.

This doesn't open the floodgates, and it's not a slippery slope, and it's not going to let us add console commands to other profiles.
I literally, and explicitly, made sure that I wasn't including anything from Cheat Mode in this proposal for that reason. Especially not console commands.
We're not adding cheats here, we're adding the other way to play Minecraft, a way that's just as important and just as valid.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I didn't really need you to explain it to me but more in the op, that's all.

Personally the game modes are the game Minecraft... It's stated nearly everywhere that I have looked that you are supposed to play Minecraft the way you want to play it and that all the game modes is how you are supposed to play minecraft.

So the argument of creative mode not being an honest or a valid showing of the verse doesn't really makes sense to me but I can see where they are coming from tho.

---

Also.... Hi

 

[MrKerf]

Even if Creative is not a "supposed" way or "non-canon" per say... We still have profiles for those, aren't we? Dragon Ball GT is one example I can think of. Or movie Broly.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

general question to the opposition here, how is creative mode anywhere a cheat? It's literally an entire game mode. This is kind of silly and petty. There are LITERALLY PROFILES FOR COMMAND BLOCKS

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Even if Creative is not a "supposed" way or "non-canon" per say... We still have profiles for those, aren't we? Dragon Ball GT is one example I can think of. Or movie Broly.

Provide me with an example of a game where we use the game's god mode in profiles. Coz I can think of an awful lot of games with god mode, but not a one of them is represented on here.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

general question to the opposition here, how is creative mode anywhere a cheat? It's literally an entire game mode. This is kind of silly and petty. There are LITERALLY PROFILES FOR COMMAND BLOCKS

A block is not a game mode. Granted, I agree that's straddling the line a bit, but there you go.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

it's still the embodiment of cheating, in the form of a block

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I believe the justification for its existence comes from Minecraft: Story Mode, though I'm not sure of that as I've not played.

 

[MrKerf]

Provide me with an example of a game where we use the game's god mode in profiles. Coz I can think of an awful lot of games with god mode, but not a one of them is represented on here.

I meeean... I don't play that many games...
The Luminous Being from DnD, aka Dungeon Master?
Honestly, I doubt you'll find a game with both 0 plot and which allows to officially ,not through cheats, choosing god mod as a play-mod.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I meeean... I don't play that many games...
The Luminous Being from DnD, aka Dungeon Master?
Honestly, I doubt you'll find a game with both 0 plot and which allows to officially ,not through cheats, choosing god mod as a play-mod.

Hah. I know you're joking, but I was referring to video games. Fiction having a weird over-entity is relatively common enough.

And uh... this isn't an issue of plot. That bit's been agreed on, ostensibly, even by those in favor of the change. But god mode itself is an issue.

 

[MrKerf]

I meant to say that god mode in general is uncommon in games with plot.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

For Durability... I suppose..
Uh. Ya know. Bedrock is actually DESCTRUCTABLE. Because it can be bombed or explosed that hard.
And... just calculate how much tnt you need.
Btw. Set WHOLE minecraft map with TNT and calculate damage. Creative Steve will survive. and that would be just easiest way to calculate creative durab

 

[GyroNutz]

The reason so much focus is placed on Survival is obvious: it's the most popular.
But as an indexing wiki, given such a variable game, isn't it better to cover all our bases, rather than merely the most popular one?
For the sake of indexing Minecraft, is it not better to include more than just the most popular things, but every valid thing instead?
Cherry-picking in this instance seems counter-productive to me.

I mean, sure, the meta answer is that it's focused on because it's popular. But that's just a motive, it doesn't change the fact that what little lore the game has is based around survival mode, numerous game aspects are based solely around survival mode, etc. Hell, if we want to bring up other game modes aside from those two, it could be argued that Adventure mode and Spectator mode only exist to accompany Survival mode, with Adventure mode being primarily for survival maps and Spectator mode being primarily to watch survival worlds/players after dying. It'd be cherry-picking if both Survival and Creative modes were equally valid, but I don't think they are.

 

[GyroNutz]

For Durability... I suppose..
Uh. Ya know. Bedrock is actually DESCTRUCTABLE. Because it can be bombed or explosed that hard.
And... just calculate how much tnt you need.
Btw. Set WHOLE minecraft map with TNT and calculate damage. Creative Steve will survive. and that would be just easiest way to calculate creative durab

Using destruction values for Obsidian have been rejected before, I don't think it'd be allowed for Bedrock either (story mode is a different case). I'm also not sure if the latter would work either, as it's not just one big explosion but multiple explosions happening consecutively. Kinda like how tanking Saitama's consecutive normal punches from One Punch Man wouldn't mean you're like 50x his durability.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Creative mod is basically survival mod + game mechanics and the 5-C damage is also game mechanics or else all mobs would've got one shot by the player

Disagree with this CRT

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

It'd be cherry-picking if both Survival and Creative modes were equally valid, but I don't think they are.

It’s not really cherry-picking when the creator values the game modes both equally as apart of the game…

it could be argued that Adventure mode and Spectator mode only exist to accompany Survival mode, with Adventure mode being primarily for survival maps and Spectator mode being primarily to watch survival worlds/players after dying.

It could but not when it states that they are meant to be completely different game modes and that they are a different equally way to play Minecraft

 

[Antvasima]

I was asked to comment here, but since there seems to be a tie between the staff, it is likely that this cannot be applied, unless the staff members against agree with any part of this.

 

[GyroNutz]

It’s not really cherry-picking when the creator values the game modes both equally as apart of the game…

Can you elaborate on this?

It could but not when it states that they are meant to be completely different game modes and that they are a different equally way to play Minecraft

They're not equal though, they're (Adventure + Spectator modes) extremely limited and primarily intended for non-canon multiplayer stuff.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Can you elaborate on this?

Minecraft is supposed to be played in those game modes, survival is just only one of the game modes you can play.

the guidebooks teaches you on how to play Minecraft which Creative mode is apart in and that Creative is a game mode that is Minecraft and not just something thats in Minecraft (like mods, texture packs and more)

The creator or the official website states that you are supposed to play Minecraft the way you wanna play it. The game modes are all equally the way you are supposed to play Minecraft.

So I don't understand the argument that Creative mode is just a god mode/Cheat mode or a game mode that's not the default way to play Minecraft.

They're not equal though, they're (Adventure + Spectator modes) extremely limited and primarily intended for non-canon multiplayer stuff.

It's not non-canon for Minecraft tho... They can be used for multiplayer but they are still gamemodes for Singleplayer, which is why those game modes are on single player and not just the multiplayer.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

how does anything in minecraft have a canon anyways, I don't recall the plot

 

[InfiniteDay]

how does anything in minecraft have a canon anyways, I don't recall the plot

The only real canon thing is the mobestiary.

 

[GyroNutz]

the guidebooks teaches you on how to play Minecraft which Creative mode is apart in and that Creative is a game mode that is Minecraft and not just something thats in Minecraft (like mods, texture packs and more)

Where does the guidebook talk about creative mode? You just showed me a page to buy it...

The creator or the official website states that you are supposed to play Minecraft the way you wanna play it. The game modes are all equally the way you are supposed to play Minecraft.

That's very gameplay-based, it explicitly mentions that Adventure mode is meant for multiplayer maps. Also again, it simply mentioning them doesn't make them more or less valid. Whatever the consensus on Creative Mode is, I am completely adamant that Adventure and Spectator modes don't make their way onto the profiles, and the arguments for them are ridiculous.

So I don't understand the argument that Creative mode is just a god mode/Cheat mode or a game mode that's not the default way to play Minecraft.

It isn't. Survival is the "default" way to play, if anything.

how does anything in minecraft have a canon anyways, I don't recall the plot

I use the word "canon" very loosely here, but multiplayer stuff should definitely be kept off the profiles.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I meant to say that god mode in general is uncommon in games with plot.

Oh, no, that is something I'd disagree with. Not that this is particularly relevant to the discussion, but still. Plenty of games have god mode inputs.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Where does the guidebook talk about creative mode? You just showed me a page to buy it...

if I had to take a guess, its the fact that the book is titled guide to creative

 

[ZillertheBucko]

sorry that sounded like sarcasm lol
but yeah the book is titled guide to creative is what he means, unless he posted the wrong thing

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Where does the guidebook talk about creative mode? You just showed me a page to buy it...

I showed you Creative mode being in the official guidebooks which teaches you on how to play Minecraft...

That's very gameplay-based, it explicitly mentions that Adventure mode is meant for multiplayer maps.

Yes but it's still is a singleplayer mode.

Also again, it simply mentioning them doesn't make them more or less valid. Whatever the consensus on Creative Mode is, I am completely adamant that Adventure and Spectator modes don't make their way onto the profiles, and the arguments for them are ridiculous.

It didn't just mention them... Those game modes are in the questions on how to Minecraft. This crt is for creative... But personally all the game modes should be considered valid as that is Minecraft which is stated. Maybe only using the old three game modes (Survival, Creative and Hardcore) as that was what was the only modes intended to be played but idk

It isn't. Survival is the "default" way to play, if anything.

And where are you getting this from? Isn't that just your opinion which contradicts the statement that Minecraft is a game where you chose how to play? And they give you three option on how to play Minecraft in the beginning.

 

[GyroNutz]

if I had to take a guess, its the fact that the book is titled guide to creative

I showed you Creative mode being in the official guidebooks which teaches you on how to play Minecraft...

Ever heard the saying "don't judge a book by its cover"? If you're using the "Guide to Creative" book as your argument, why not tell me what it actually says inside it?

Yes but it's still is a singleplayer mode.

Adventure mode is intended for multiplayer mode and adventure maps. It says as much in the link you provided. Also fun fact, it's impossible to "beat the game" (defeat the Ender Dragon) in adventure mode as it literally doesn't let you place eyes of ender into portal frames.

It didn't just mention them... Those game modes are in the questions on how to Minecraft. This crt is for creative... But personally all the game modes should be considered valid as that is Minecraft which is stated. Maybe only using the old three game modes (Survival, Creative and Hardcore) as that was what was the only modes intended to be played but idk

Ik the CRT is for creative mode, but you and others keep bringing up Adventure and Spectator modes, which again I'm adamantly against. It's clear what Adventure and Spectator modes are intended for, especially by the fact of how limiting they are in a single-player world. Also disagree with Hardcore mode, that's more of a difficulty setting really and is basically just regular survival Steve without respawns.

And where are you getting this from? Isn't that just your opinion which contradicts the statement that Minecraft is a game where you chose how to play? And they give you three option on how to play Minecraft in the beginning.

I've explained my view on this already, but since you're the one who stated that Creative mode is the default way to play, I'll flip this back to you - where are you getting the idea that Creative mode is the default way to play from?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

where are you getting the idea that Creative mode is the default way to play from?

From the official Minecraft website... Where it states that the way you wanna play is how you play Minecraft. I'm also saying creative mode is one of the ways to play minecraft.

Ever heard the saying "don't judge a book by its cover"? If you're using the "Guide to Creative" book as your argument, why not tell me what it actually says inside it?

I mean... Should I buy it?
it's just to prove that they have an official Minecraft book for creative mode which the books are guides in how to play Minecraft

Adventure mode is intended for multiplayer mode and adventure maps. It says as much in the link you provided. Also fun fact, it's impossible to "beat the game" (defeat the Ender Dragon) in adventure mode as it literally doesn't let you place eyes of ender into portal frames.

That's fair tho I did suggest the beginning game modes

Ik the CRT is for creative mode, but you and others keep bringing up Adventure and Spectator modes, which again I'm adamantly against.

You brought it up... I said via the website all of the modes is the way to play Minecraft

 

[FinePoint]

Adventure Mode and Hardcore Mode don't have to be part of this CRT.
'
As I said before, Adventure Mode is barely different from Survival, and Hardcore Mode is technically a difficulty not a game mode (it could easily fall under game mechanics as a result).
Someone suggested them earlier, and I replied with how they might work, but I'm perfectly fine with not adding them since they strike me as less significant.

 

[MrKerf]

Ever heard the saying "don't judge a book by its cover"? If you're using the "Guide to Creative" book as your argument, why not tell me what it actually says inside it?

Here you go. And here also.
Imgur is very stoic in not allowing me to upload new images, hmmm.

 

[GyroNutz]

Here you go. And here also.
Imgur is very stoic in not allowing me to upload new images, hmmm.

Thank you. While it is less direct than other game's guidebooks, it does support Creative Mode as a legitimate way to play.

From the official Minecraft website... Where it states that the way you wanna play is how you play Minecraft. I'm also saying creative mode is one of the ways to play minecraft.

To quote you, you said that "So I don't understand the argument that Creative mode is just a god mode/Cheat mode or a game mode that's not the default way to play Minecraft.", which seems different to what you're saying now. Seems like there's been some miscommunication.

Adventure Mode and Hardcore Mode don't have to be part of this CRT.

Yes, please, let's not talk about Adventure/Spectator/Hardcore mode. It's derailing at best.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

To quote you, you said that "So I don't understand the argument that Creative mode is just a god mode/Cheat mode or a game mode that's not the default way to play Minecraft.", which seems different to what you're saying now. Seems like there's been some miscommunication.

Yee… I don’t understand the argument that creative is not the default way to play Minecraft

so I don’t understand why survival is the default way and not creative aswell… I guess I could have worded it differently but it still makes sense with the context that’s provided above the statement you just quoted