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Minecraft Addition: Creative Mode

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I really hate it when people frame it that way.

The job of a staff member in regards to CRTs is to be a checks and balance system. Take the information and vote on it through members that are at least generally reliable in their ratings. I mean no offense to anyone in particular here- if you feel this way, you feel this way, who am I to say the reasons for that. But you must admit that there is a lot of motive behind a lot of upgrades, aye? Hence the staff vote. It's to make sure insane shit doesn't pass when a lot of fans of a verse get together and decide it should.

I'm sorry you disagree with this method, but I don't think there's any other reasonable method of running VSBW as a whole. Speaking as someone who wasn't terribly fond of becoming a staff member, mind you.
 
I personally believe the system is very flawed but it is also one of the least flawed options so I don't spend that much time complaining about it personally
 
ZillertheBucko said:
I personally believe the system is very flawed but it is also one of the least flawed options so I don't spend that much time complaining about it personally
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Aye, that's just about the gist of it. Everybody would be upset with something, I think at this point we at least have some level of quality control over what gets through.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Aye, that's just about the gist of it. Everybody would be upset with something, I think at this point we at least have some level of quality control over what gets through.
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The problem comes when mod votes are seemingly the only way to get a crt passed, no matter the amount of user votes.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
I really hate it when people frame it that way.
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How else am I meant to frame it?
Our votes do not matter, so our participation in this thread is meaningless.
It is not a stretch.
Mr._Bambu said:
The job of a staff member in regards to CRTs is to be a checks and balance system. Take the information and vote on it through members that are at least generally reliable in their ratings. I mean no offense to anyone in particular here- if you feel this way, you feel this way, who am I to say the reasons for that. But you must admit that there is a lot of motive behind a lot of upgrades, aye? Hence the staff vote. It's to make sure insane shit doesn't pass when a lot of fans of a verse get together and decide it should.
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The fact that several staff would vote in agreement should be proof enough that this is not merely a low-effort upgrade pushed purely by popularity. My proposal is far from insane, and I took great care to organize it in a semi-professional way.
Mr._Bambu said:
I'm sorry you disagree with this method, but I don't think there's any other reasonable method of running VSBW as a whole. Speaking as someone who wasn't terribly fond of becoming a staff member, mind you.
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I just want some semblance of respect for the regular users who keep this wiki alive.
Half of the staff disagree votes blatantly don't address the rebuttal I baked into the OP, and refused to respond to my direct questions.
This isn't quality control, it's blatant favoritism.
 
FinePoint said:
Ah. I mean, that's just worse than the normal respawning. It would be useless for the sake of this wiki, in the same manner as Adventure Mode. Creative Mode would actually create some interesting matchups.
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Without getting into my opinion on the CRT as a whole, this is a rather shit reason to include/not include something. Just because it limits stuff rather than helping get more stuff in the profile is absolutely no basis for adding or not adding a feature to said profile.

I get that that is not a main argument being proposed in favor of Creative, but I found it prudent to address it regardless.
 
As for my actual opinion, I am as neutral as can be on this topic, and quite frankly I'd rather get this whole debacle of Creative canonicity sorted out once and for all.

Though I will put forth this warning: putting Creative mode on the profile necessitates by inclusion the adding of Adventure and Spectator mode, as neither of them are any less viable than Creative in this regard, if it is to be accepted. And as mentioned beforehand in the comment above, their existence actively limiting the Player's capabilities also means nothing for the purposes of indexing.

Basically, if you decide to get one, you're gonna have to get them all. Proceed as you will.
 
Crabwhale said:
As for my actual opinion, I am as neutral as can be on this topic, and quite frankly I'd rather get this whole debacle of Creative canonicity sorted out once and for all.

Though I will put forth this warning: putting Creative mode on the profile necessitates by inclusion the adding of Adventure and Spectator mode, as neither of them are any less viable than Creative in this regard, if it is to be accepted. And as mentioned beforehand in the comment above, their existence actively limiting the Player's capabilities also means nothing for the purposes of indexing.

Basically, if you decide to get one, you're gonna have to get them all. Proceed as you will.
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Thank you for your reply.
You're probably right that it would naturally be valid, but to put it simply it doesn't necesitate a new key either way.

Adventure Mode is just Survival Mode minus breaking blocks. Copy-pasting the entire key seems pointless. I think a note either at the bottom or in the write-up of block-related abilities is all that's needed.

Though the most elegant way is likely to create 3 tabbers, Adventure Mode, Surival Mode, and Creative Mode for abilities.
Adventure mode would come first and include all but the block-based abilities
Survival Mode would contain "all previous" plus block abilities,
and Creative mode would include "all previous" plus Creative abilities.

Spectator mode isn't technically a choice for a "mode" either way, it's just the character being a ghost after death. It would fall under survival mode abilities, with a note that it only applies after death in a hardcore world.
Though, technically whether to include hardcore mode or not is a different discussion, since it is difficulty-based rather than a gamemode.
 
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FinePoint said:
How else am I meant to frame it?
Our votes do not matter, so our participation in this thread is meaningless.
It is not a stretch.

The fact that several staff would vote in agreement should be proof enough that this is not merely a low-effort upgrade pushed purely by popularity. My proposal is far from insane, and I took great care to organize it in a semi-professional way.

I just want some semblance of respect for the regular users who keep this wiki alive.
Half of the staff disagree votes blatantly don't address the rebuttal I baked into the OP, and refused to respond to my direct questions.
This isn't quality control, it's blatant favoritism.
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If you feel your opinion is worthless then there is little I can do for you. Your opinion is your only tool, here, and it is used to convince others of your correctness. I agree that in this particular scenario, you seem to have been outweighed- as mentioned before, even with Crab's vote, it seems likely that this is rejected. But this is not always the case. Plenty of regular users have done very good things. When I was a bluename, I argued enough to outweigh multiple admins on a thread where they were, objectively, wrong. It is possible.

And the fact that more staff vote against it should be enough to tell you that it is not considered as solid, aye? It seems to me you're asking for respect while hardly taking the time to consider respecting others. I appreciate people trying to do good work. It's just that this ain't something I can agree with.

Victimize yourself or don't, it means little to me. Just know that the staff aren't the demons you make them out to be- the fact that some agree with you should make this clear. Or are you showing favoritism towards them?
 
Mr._Bambu said:
If you feel your opinion is worthless then there is little I can do for you. Your opinion is your only tool, here, and it is used to convince others of your correctness. I agree that in this particular scenario, you seem to have been outweighed- as mentioned before, even with Crab's vote, it seems likely that this is rejected. But this is not always the case. Plenty of regular users have done very good things. When I was a bluename, I argued enough to outweigh multiple admins on a thread where they were, objectively, wrong. It is possible.
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I cannot outweigh anyone in the current system. If what you meant was you changed their minds, then I can not do that either if they literally don't respond to me.
Mr._Bambu said:
And the fact that more staff vote against it should be enough to tell you that it is not considered as solid, aye? It seems to me you're asking for respect while hardly taking the time to consider respecting others. I appreciate people trying to do good work. It's just that this ain't something I can agree with.
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I have not been disrespectful to anyone. A few disagreements amongst otherwise overwhelming support does not tell me it's not solid.
Mr._Bambu said:
Victimize yourself or don't, it means little to me. Just know that the staff aren't the demons you make them out to be- the fact that some agree with you should make this clear. Or are you showing favoritism towards them?
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The staff aren't demons nor did I claim anything of the sorts. My complaint wasn't about the staff, but rather the system by which CRTs are approved or rejected. Whether someone agrees with me or not makes no impact on my opinion of them.
If you are interpreting my complaints as personal hostility, then I apologize for coming across that way, that is not my intention.
 
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How is this thread still going, it's been half a year lol.

More importantly, I haven't noticed any real counterarguments since I last commented here. The whole basis of this is that Creative Mode shouldn't be considered as "less valid" than Survival Mode. Yet the vast majority of outside game sources represent Survival Mode, all updates and progression advancements revolve around Survival Mode, it's clear that Survival Mode is the "most valid", so to speak. Adventure and Spectator Mode stuff is definitely a reach, Spectator Mode Steve literally can't interact with the world and is completely featless and both are clearly intended for non-canon multiplayer stuff. I get that Creative Mode is an important part of Minecraft, and there seems to be sensible proposals as to how it would be implemented, I just don't think that anything new has been brought up really. You can count me as neutral btw, since I'm pretty indifferent to this now.
 
GyroNutz said:
How is this thread still going, it's been half a year lol.
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Because I am determined.
GyroNutz said:
More importantly, I haven't noticed any real counterarguments since I last commented here. The whole basis of this is that Creative Mode shouldn't be considered as "less valid" than Survival Mode. Yet the vast majority of outside game sources represent Survival Mode, all updates and progression advancements revolve around Survival Mode, it's clear that Survival Mode is the "most valid", so to speak. Adventure and Spectator Mode stuff is definitely a reach, Spectator Mode Steve literally can't interact with the world and is completely featless and both are clearly intended for non-canon multiplayer stuff. I get that Creative Mode is an important part of Minecraft, and there seems to be sensible proposals as to how it would be implemented, I just don't think that anything new has been brought up really. You can count me as neutral btw, since I'm pretty indifferent to this now.
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Well, that's just it. It's important to Minecraft.
This is a game with basically no lore and full of game mechanics.
Determining "the right way" to play isn't something necessarily possible.

The reason so much focus is placed on Survival is obvious: it's the most popular.
But as an indexing wiki, given such a variable game, isn't it better to cover all our bases, rather than merely the most popular one?
For the sake of indexing Minecraft, is it not better to include more than just the most popular things, but every valid thing instead?
Cherry-picking in this instance seems counter-productive to me.
 
Neutral for now but leaning with agree...

I have read the op and skimmed through the comments... I would like if you could explain a little more on why creative mode is not cheats.
 
I still generally agree with @FinePoint. For a game that has literally no concrete way to play, I don't think we can consider any mode that's straight-up offered to the players by the game itself without any legit cheats as unworthy of being indexed. As stated before, why only cover the most popular bases instead of covering all of them?
 
Meh, fair enough I guess, but just because the book is called 'Guide to Creative' doesn't mean the book refers specifically to creative mode, since I believe you can build all the same in Survival and Creative, it's just easier in Creative cause of the flight and inexhaustible resources.

Then again, maybe I'm just ******* stupid :/
 
Guidebooks are not an indication of the existence of a canon. I think the closest thing you could possibly get is Story Mode.
 
As I haven't seen anything that makes the mode creative as cheats or less valid than the survival game mode, I'll agree.

Tho personally you should explain more on why it's not cheats and is apart of the main game
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Guidebooks are not an indication of the existence of a canon. I think the closest thing you could possibly get is Story Mode.
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I don't think that's the point, my friend. I believe the point is that Minecraft doesn't have a set canon and that the game can be played in a variety of different ways, Creative just happens to be an option next to survival. I don't understand why that would make Creative mode unworthy or a problem to index, so do enlighten me as I genuinely don't understand.
 
Like, the entire argument that Creative Mode shouldn't be indexed hinges on Minecraft having some sort of fundamental canon which dictates what we can and cannot index, in which there is none. Just because certain things are meant to be experienced in Survival, or that it's the default mode, don't make Creative invalid because it is literally right next to Survival as an option for playing. I legit don't understand why we can't have it on the site.
 
azontr said:
I don't think that's the point, my friend. I believe the point is that Minecraft doesn't have a set canon and that the game can be played in a variety of different ways, Creative just happens to be an option next to survival. I don't understand why that would make Creative mode unworthy or a problem to index, so do enlighten me as I genuinely don't understand.
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Then why bring up guidebooks lol? I already agree with the notion that Minecraft has no plot, that's why this thread originated. We axed Low 1-C so people came up with Creative mode scaling, which has its own slew of issues mentioned above. Even in a game with no lore, your godmode isn't considered legitimate- Gyro makes a fairly good case for that above and others have done so for the breadth of this thread. So do enlighten me when we have ever accepted cheats as a legitimate case, o wise Minecrafter?

I will permit sass when you are aware of the context of the thread. You are not, otherwise you would not be harping on me for assuming a canon for a verse where I am personally responsible for axing that notion.
 
I haven't played Minecraft in years nor am I wise lol. I'm just here to enforce what I believe is accurate like we all are, my dude.

What I don't understand, and asked you to enlighten me on, is why we would consider Creative Mode to be a cheat mode? Maybe I just haven't cohesively been reading the counter-arguments but it just seems to me like Creative Mode is just a separate way of playing the game. Why not index it, that is what I'm confused about.

And I wasn't the one who brought up guidebooks, actually. That was @HammerStrikes219.
 
Minecraft at the beginning of the game only used to have Survival Mode, Hardcore Mode and Creative Mode, these three modes is Minecraft

Which are stated in the guidebook, that's accepted from the creator of the game
 
I know who brought up the guide books. I responded to them, and then you misinterpreted what I had said. That is the entire subplot.

In what way specifically is Creative Mode not a cheat mode? Whether a game has a canon or not has no bearing on what a cheat mode/god mode/whatever is- it is a mode in which you are not playing the game in typical means, and rather just give total control over the world around you. Creative mode fits the bill. As I said, Gyro does provide a good enough argument above, if you'd only just read it.
 
I have read GyroNutz's argument. Multiple times, actually.

What I'm confused about in that argument is how it makes Creative Mode any less valid to be indexed than Survival Mode. Just because it's not typical compared to the default mode doesn't mean it shouldn't be indexed in the same way survival mode is, and if you still disagree with this, then maybe that's just the site's standards working against me and I guess I can't do anything about that.
 
azontr said:
then maybe that's just the site's standards working against me and I guess I can't do anything about that.
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I not sure if the site has a exact standard for this kind of situation especially on a game like this.

If it does, then it was probably implemented at some point.
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
I not sure if the site has a exact standard for this kind of situation especially on a game like this.

If it does, then it was probably implemented at some point.
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I mean, a standard doesn't really have to be something written in any sort of rules, it could just be a universally accepted truth or something that is generally implemented in various situations. So in a way, yeah, the site has ****** me, and it's ****** us all.
 
azontr said:
I mean, a standard doesn't really have to be something written in any sort of rules, it could just be a universally accepted truth or something that is generally implemented in various situations. So in a way, yeah, the site has ****** me, and it's ****** us all.
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Perhaps, but in that case, we pretty much will have to write it down so we don’t conveniently forget that standard.
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
Perhaps, but in that case, we pretty much will have to write it down so we don’t conveniently forget that standard.
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Man, I don't even know if this shit is written down in the first place so I ain't even the guy you should talk to on that lol. If we do have a page for situations like this my eyes haven't even touched it.
 
azontr said:
I have read GyroNutz's argument. Multiple times, actually.

What I'm confused about in that argument is how it makes Creative Mode any less valid to be indexed than Survival Mode. Just because it's not typical compared to the default mode doesn't mean it shouldn't be indexed in the same way survival mode is, and if you still disagree with this, then maybe that's just the site's standards working against me and I guess I can't do anything about that.
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Being a cheat mode in any game is absolutely an argument to not index it, same reason we don't have a debug mode for every single game in existence to give every protagonist god-mode abilities plus various levels of reality warping. As I've said, this is not a question about canon, something you ostensibly agree with. The simple fact that a game has such modes does not imply it is the intended mode, which I feel is extremely relevant. Otherwise we may as well allow Intangibility to any game with wall clipping, aye? I find this point, at least, to be common sense.

And for the record I am merely drawing a parallel with the wall clipping/debug mode comments, not actually suggesting you go and make a CRT for those.
 
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