Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Honestly, why wouldn't we, outta curiosity? The arguments in favor of Creative absolutely would apply to all of the above. If you have one, there is no reason to not have the others. Mind you, I'm not arguing in favor of including these- to do so is, in my opinion, lunacy- but the fact remains that they are all equally as valid as Creative under the OP's suggestions, like it or not.Yes, please, let's not talk about Adventure/Spectator/Hardcore mode. It's derailing at best.
I updated it as recently as Gohan's post. I don't think anything's changed since then.So has the evaluation score in the first post of this thread been properly updated?
We definitely shouldn't close this yet. Debate is still happening, sides have changed recently, new people are showing up, and new evidence is even being introduced.So, given that more staff members with evaluation rights seem to be against this change, should we close this thread, or continue to talk a bit more? Perhaps each side should explain their arguments, after which we can ask some more staff members to take a look?
Because it seems more controversial than just Creative Mode. My opinion aside, I would rather not distract the main purpose of the CRT with other additions that are less popular.Honestly, why wouldn't we, outta curiosity? The arguments in favor of Creative absolutely would apply to all of the above. If you have one, there is no reason to not have the others. Mind you, I'm not arguing in favor of including these- to do so is, in my opinion, lunacy- but the fact remains that they are all equally as valid as Creative under the OP's suggestions, like it or not.
Would you like me to collect the supporting arguments and evidence into one post, then?Perhaps each side should explain their arguments, after which we can ask some more staff members to take a look?
They're not all equally as valid. Creative Mode has a whole book about it, Adventure and Spectator modes are primarily intended for non-canon multiplayer modes. Even by the OP's suggestions, afaik there's no way to select Adventure or Spectator mode without cheats.Honestly, why wouldn't we, outta curiosity? The arguments in favor of Creative absolutely would apply to all of the above. If you have one, there is no reason to not have the others. Mind you, I'm not arguing in favor of including these- to do so is, in my opinion, lunacy- but the fact remains that they are all equally as valid as Creative under the OP's suggestions, like it or not.
I'd recommend contacting some other staff and knowledgeable members. That's probably the only way this thread will get out of the stalemate.We definitely shouldn't close this yet. Debate is still happening, sides have changed recently, new people are showing up, and new evidence is even being introduced.
Every knowledgeable staff member has already commented, so we'd have to find other staff.I'd recommend contacting some other staff and knowledgeable members. That's probably the only way this thread will get out of the stalemate.
In what sense does the book invalidate our loreless gamemode? Spectator mode actually does get chosen without, I believe you can do so after dying in Hardmode. It is a "legitimate means of playing", is it not?They're not all equally as valid. Creative Mode has a whole book about it, Adventure and Spectator modes are primarily intended for non-canon multiplayer modes. Even by the OP's suggestions, afaik there's no way to select Adventure or Spectator mode without cheats.
I'd recommend contacting some other staff and knowledgeable members. That's probably the only way this thread will get out of the stalemate.
Yes, but we generally consider difficulty game mechanics. It's a separate issue than what this CRT is about.In what sense does the book invalidate our loreless gamemode? Spectator mode actually does get chosen without, I believe you can do so after dying in Hardmode. It is a "legitimate means of playing", is it not?
Difficulty is a thing in both. Your question assumes Survival Mode is the primary basis, which I disagree with on principle.So you would not consider Creative Mode to be game mechanics, then? It is mechanically exactly the same as Survival?
Also, I've gone ahead and pasted this post into the OP for ease of access, since I can picture it being buried soon.Agreement for Creative Mode (As far as I understand)
Empirical Evidence for Creative Mode
Logical Argument for Creative Mode
- Minecraft has a mode specifically called "Cheat Mode" of which Creative Mode is NOT included, instead being presented as an option in the same exact menu as Survival Mode.
- An official guidebook exists which explains Creative Mode and presents it as a valid alternative way to play Minecraft.
Opposition and Response
- With the End Poem recently rejected, the general consensus seems to be that Minecraft has no definite story or canon. In this scenario, there's little-to-no basis to say that Creative Mode is less of a valid way to play Minecraft.
- It seems far more productive as an indexing wiki to cover both of the primary game modes, rather than just the more popular one. Why cover one of our bases when we could cover both of them?
- Ultimately, we would argue that it is not a cheat mode, and I vehemently do not support cheat mode in this game or any other. That's why I've so explicitly rejected everything related to Cheat Mode in this CRT, including console commands and the likes. If anybody ever tried to use this CRT as precedent for cheating in other games, I would personally go and tell the they're completely wrong myself. This is not a cheat mode, it is a different way to play. The "cheating" perspective originates from the mindset that Survival Mode is the primary way to play, but from Creative Mode's own perspective, the fact that monsters are no longer an issue is obviously just to facilitate building. The goal is no longer survival. The purpose of Creative Mode is not to create equipment and kill the Ender Dragon, that much should be obvious. Its goal is to facilitate the second half of Minecraft, which is being creative and creating something from your imagination. The fact that this goal isn't related to fighting is fine, we have plenty of puzzle games and kids shows on this wiki.
- "Creative Mode is ultimately just a cheat mode. Allowing it as a key would open the door for cheats in other games, such as console commands, godmode, no-clip, etc."
- Without evidence of an actual canon, this argument seems far too nit-picky to exclude an entire second half of the game. As an indexing site, we do our best to include any important information. The exception is if this information isn't considered part of the primary media, or ignored for inconsistency. With previous points discussed, I don't think either is the case here. Popularity is a non-argument. Our goal is not to index media as it's most popularly portrayed, but rather most accurately. Removing otherwise valid details is counter-productive to that.
- "Survival Mode is still technically the default mode, and what is most commonly portrayed in media."
- Welcome to Minecraft. Survival Mode is also littered with game mechanics, as anyone who regularly participates in Minecraft revisions would tell you. As for scaling and indexing, I've already gone through extensive effort to determine exact additions in the OP. It is open for further discussion, and I disagree strongly that it's not possible to index for the same reasons Survival Mode isn't impossible to index.
- "This is near-impossible to scale, and is littered with game mechanics."
What about Adventure Mode and Hardcore Mode?
- Adventure Mode is literally just Survival Mode minus breaking and placing blocks. Even if we did include it, it would barely change the profile. The only difference is we'd segment some of the abilities. For the sake of indexing, this is negligible. Hardcore Mode is technically a difficulty, and not a game mode. I would argue heavily this is game mechanics. If you don't know, Spectator Mode isn't its own mode, but is part of Hardcore Mode.
- We don't need to cover everything at once. This CRT is about Creative Mode, and trying to argue for these extra modes at the same time will only distract us. They can be discussed if the future if we must. I would recommend simply not talking about them in this current thread.
I believe this is all the relevant arguments? Let me know if I missed anything. I'm of course fine with the opposition making a similar post.
Like I said, you are free to organize the opposition as well.Should I add the arguments against to the OP as well, then? Given most (if not all) of these have at some point been countered?
Also, I do disagree with arbitrarily cutting off other discussions- they may lack guidebooks but frankly your points would allow them just as easily as they'd allow godmode. I suspect it's due to them being a bit more obviously game-y.
I'm recommending we just drop it. This CRT is already pretty complicated, and the OP is already going to be kind of long.creative mode is the only extra mode that matters, everything else is pointless to add to a profile I genuinely don't see how it is being argued that they should be added
Sure, this CRT is exclusively about Creative, but the point remains that allowing Creative under these arguments would allow all other modes as well. Adventure mode I can sustain, since I suppose it is technically not possible to enter without using cheatsLike I said, you are free to organize the opposition as well.
I would just recommend making it look nice.
It is not arbitrary. They are technically outside the scope of this CRT, and not even the supporters seem interested in them. I've already detailed why I disagree that they're just as valid as Creative Mode, at least for the sake of indexing.
How so? How is informing people of what this CRT would permit derailing? Is it not extremely relevant information?We can handle the other modes in a separate CRT, any mentions of other modes are derailing from the main purpose of THIS Content Revision Thread.
You keep saying Godmode, but it's never referred to as such anywhere. You don't need to remind us your opinion is it's cheating in every single sentence. Spectating is only a byproduct of Hardcore Mode after death, it's not its own game mode. I'm pretty sure the only time you'd even see it referred to as a mode is in the console, which we're obviously not counting.Sure, this CRT is exclusively about Creative, but the point remains that allowing Creative under these arguments would allow all other modes as well. Adventure mode I can sustain, since I suppose it is technically not possible to enter without using cheatsor the Command Block, which we have a page forbut the others are absolutely possible to enter without said "cheats". So Godmode would be equally as valid as, say, Spectator Mode.
Well, technically "godmode" just refers to being invincible. If that was the only difference in Creative Mode I wouldn't have made this CRT. It includes a lot of significant changes which I've both detailed in the OP and explained how they can be indexed. It seems like an intentional oversimplification to manipulate people's first impressions of a clearly complicated subject given this debate.I keep saying godmode because I have played games and I know what a godmode is. The actual name of the mode is irrelevant. I refer to it in this case because it makes a more clear image of what it is people are voting for- you are trying to put the game's in-built godmode into the profile. I'm saying it like it is.
I do not know what you're talking about. I included an entire write-up in the OP about the exact reasons I'm not convinced regarding Adventure/Hardcore mode. I have not ignored it or you at all, I've been engaging with you as much as I can.Yes, and you keep bloody ignoring it, and then pouting about other people not acknowledging your own points. Trust me, I don't like it, either.
Ignore it, then. It is still not debunked. That's not how a debate works. Regardless of the bandwagon.
I'm very familiar with 7 Days to Die. Its godmode requires cheats to be enabled.Godmode refers to a mode of a game in which you are given unreal levels of power so the game is no longer a challenge. For example, 7 Days to Die Godmode allows you to be invulnerable, fly, go through blocks, etc. So you admit this is a godmode that you're adding. Creative Mode is literally just a Godmode. A few extra bits tacked onto invulnerability, sure, but these are ultimately just game mechanics.
The problem is we've discussed them and determined them to be not equally as valid. Your argument makes an assumption that we've not accepted as true beforehand.I don't feel misrepresented at all. I feel you're trying to twist the truth a smidge to make your point seem less unreasonable. Blocking out conversation of other gamemodes and constantly, constantly denying what Creative mode is- the aforementioned godmode discussion- that is giving me the impression that the point is the real victim of misrepresentation here. I don't like it. So I really, really do not intend to ignore the equally-as-valid gamemodes right now- they are a decent enough tool in showing precisely how silly this upgrade actually is.
This message makes me feel as if you have a personal grudge against Minecraft, which I shouldn't have to explain implies a strong bias.Heated? I am annoyed, yes. I often grow annoyed with such shit. Especially for the hahablockgame, when the upgrade threads roll around like clockwork.
You are entitled to your own opinion. But indexing Creative mode (et al) is one of the worst things I can envision for Minecraft. The alternative modes are modifiers applied to Survival. Creative Mode is just Godmode, the same as any other game with such notions within it. Minecraft should not be an exception. Such an exception leads to a rule. Such a rule leads to a slippery slope and a lot of damn hard work to undo it later, when we realize how silly the idea is to give your average Survival Game protagonist 3-A ED due to a Godmode left in the game. That ain't a wiki I'd be proud to represent, I should hope the same goes for all of you, even if you don't see that future as the likely outcome. I do.
The goal of Creative is not ******* around, but being creative as the name implies. There's official guides to back it up as a valid way to play the game separate from cheats. The problem I have with the godmode terminology is it implies its invincibility is for the purpose of cheating, but it's more-so for the purpose of not being harrassed in a gamemode designed to facilitate creativity. We allow plenty of games where the player can't be killed.Nothing about this is a good standard to set. Many games have godmodes - and, no matter what you say, it is a godmode - and we don’t allow those. Creative Mode is not a proper part of Minecraft lore, it’s just a game mode for ******* around without worrying about zombies killing you.
Creative Mode is just Godmode, the same as any other game with such notions within it.
To me personally it seems like you two don’t really understand what the game Minecraft is kinda… I have played it and been apart of it for years. Saying it’s like any other game and saying creative is not part of Minecraft lore is completely contradicting everything the official book, website and teams have said.Many games have godmodes - and, no matter what you say, it is a godmode - and we don’t allow those. Creative Mode is not a proper part of Minecraft lore, it’s just a game mode
I have played Minecraft literally since 2011 lol. I had it the instant it came out on Mobile and got it on Xbox 360 in 2013. After that, PC, played to 2015, stopped playing for a few years (account was still active, other people were given it), then picked it up again in 2018-2019. Recently I've played RLCraft and Pixelmon.I’m sorry but both of your arguments doesn’t make any sense to me when you guys say
To me personally it seems like you two don’t really understand what the game Minecraft is kinda… I have played it and been apart of it for years. Saying it’s like any other game and saying creative is not part of Minecraft lore is completely contradicting everything the official book, website and teams have said.
the game Minecraft isn’t any other game which is why it’s one of the most popular game there is in the world, you are meant to be able to you what you wanna do which is stated by The official Minecraft team… so again survival mode isn’t a main game mode and if it somehow is you would need proof of that when there is already proof that creative mode is a game mode on how you play Minecraft
I snipped some of your argument for brevity.This CRT explicitly forbids any of the cheat mechanics in the game, because no sane person is arguing for cheats in every game on this wiki. This is not precedent for any sort of cheating. Slippery slope arguments are historically bad arguments for good reason. They rely on fearmongering more than reasoning. Allowing Creative Mode, given this discussion, is nuanced enough that we absolutely do not need to change any policies.
I'm curious, if the menu was reversed, would you still be saying this?
If Creative Mode was the default, and you had the option to switch to Survival, would you then argue that Survival is just Creative Mode but harder?
I’m not attacking you… I’m saying it seems like you two don’t understand the game Minecraft and what it isI have played Minecraft literally since 2011 lol. I had it the instant it came out on Mobile and got it on Xbox 360 in 2013. After that, PC, played to 2015, stopped playing for a few years (account was still active, other people were given it), then picked it up again in 2018-2019. Recently I've played RLCraft and Pixelmon.
I know what I'm talking about. Invalidating me by attacking my knowledge of the game isn't gonna work, my friend.
Targeting me and my experiences with Minecraft rather than actually debunking my points is a pointless argument that I will not respect with an answer in the future.I’m sorry but both of your arguments doesn’t make any sense to me when you guys say
To me personally it seems like you two don’t really understand what the game Minecraft is kinda… I have played it and been apart of it for years. Saying it’s like any other game and saying creative is not part of Minecraft lore is completely contradicting everything the official book, website and teams have said.
the game Minecraft isn’t any other game which is why it’s one of the most popular game there is in the world, you are meant to be able to do you what you wanna do which is stated by The official Minecraft team… so again survival mode isn’t a main game mode and if it somehow is you would need proof of that when there is already proof that creative mode is a game mode on how you play Minecraft
I haven’t seen one single proof of survival mode being the main game mode for Minecraft… what you are saying contradicts everything the official team and everything has said… we have brought many proof that creative mode is a game mode with how you are supposed to play it.Targeting me and my experiences with Minecraft rather than actually debunking my points is a pointless argument that I will not respect with an answer in the future.