Ultra Instinct Goku vs. Ultra Ego Vegeta

[Nierre]

oh if that's the case then goku fra

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

We need one more Goku vote for the match to be overturned.

 

[sanicspood]

Goku fra

 

[Vizer04]

The match was already added.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Now it's 7-9 and the score is no longer valid for grace.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

The match shouldn't have been added. The debate was very clearly still going on despite the grace, and in cases such as this one we should waiit before requesting this to be added.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Yeah I'm sorry I should have called out the match not to be added yet, now we bothered staff for no reason.

 

[DarlingAurora]

I can vote? Goku FRA? ;~;

 

[Vizer04]

When Shizuka votes everything gets better, Goku FRA :3

 

[Vizer04]

@Kin201, are you counting the votes or...

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

9-8. for goku.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Well, it's 2 more until grace reverses

 

[Starter_Pack]

Wait, really? After I just added it.

Okay, gonna remove it now.

 

[Vizer04]

Wait, really? After I just added it.

Okay, gonna remove it now.

Sorry for all the trouble.

 

[Kin201]

@Kin201, are you counting the votes or...

Done.

 

[Vizer04]

Done.

I changed my vote.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Somebody said it above, but this match shouldn't even be happening at the moment. Or at the very least not be added. We've seen Vegeta's from for all of ONE CHAPTER. We don't even know the proper limitations of the transformation, if it has any extra gimmicks, nada. Vegeta was even left off being beat to shit but still maintaining the form when Chapter 75 ended. Like damn, guys lol. Can we not wait for Chapter 76 before running off to do a match?

Though I'd argue for Vegeta if it wasn't the case lol

 

[Vizer04]

I just love how the only victory Vegeta ever had against Goku lasted 5 minutes before getting removed.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I just love how the only victory Vegeta ever had against Goku lasted 5 minutes before getting removed.

Nah, there was a crazy thread with 50+ votes on each side with the anime incarnations of SSBE Vegeta and SSBKK Goku. Vegeta won and it stayed for a few weeks-months iirc

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Nah, there was a crazy thread with 50+ votes on each side with the anime incarnations of SSBE Vegeta and SSBKK Goku. Vegeta won and it stayed for a few weeks-months iirc

And why did that get removed?

 

[Axxtentacle]

I don't see why Goku should have a stats advantage if only the autododge precog was being screwed, just seems like Vegeta will outlast him the same way Granolah would have. Vegeta would definitely last longer than Granolah since that's like, his entire thing in this mode. Hell, pre-UE Vegeta endured Granolah's weakpoint hit better than Goku, I see no reason that Goku should be able to **** him up that badly fast enough for Vegeta not to be able to **** him.

Basically, I vote for Vegeta rn, assuming this match isn't resolved already.

 

[Bernkastelll]

also, did someone said that vegeta doesnt have existence erasure? it is in his profile tho

 

[ShockingShoes]

I don't see why Goku should have a stats advantage if only the autododge precog was being screwed, just seems like Vegeta will outlast him the same way Granolah would have. Vegeta would definitely last longer than Granolah since that's like, his entire thing in this mode. Hell, pre-UE Vegeta endured Granolah's weakpoint hit better than Goku, I see no reason that Goku should be able to **** him up that badly fast enough for Vegeta not to be able to **** him.

Basically, I vote for Vegeta rn, assuming this match isn't resolved already.

Alot of these points were already addressed in previous posts.

also, did someone said that vegeta doesnt have existence erasure? it is in his profile tho

Yes he does, an example of this is his Hakai Ball, which was mentioned several times that can be countered.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I don't see why Goku should have a stats advantage if only the autododge precog was being screwed, just seems like Vegeta will outlast him the same way Granolah would have. Vegeta would definitely last longer than Granolah since that's like, his entire thing in this mode. Hell, pre-UE Vegeta endured Granolah's weakpoint hit better than Goku, I see no reason that Goku should be able to **** him up that badly fast enough for Vegeta not to be able to **** him.

Basically, I vote for Vegeta rn, assuming this match isn't resolved already.

Granolah offing goku, vegeta taking the pressure point and not losing, goku's stamina, I have countered all these points so many times. But I'll do it again. Your point is goku was offed by granolah, but only his auto dodge was being effected, so granolah scales to goku's full power, this is wrong, Goku was off guard, it's like saying the lazer scales to Goku's full power, it clearly doesn't because goku was suppressed due to being off guard in both cases.
Why does Goku have the stat advantage? Goku and vegeta have equal bases since they both performed similarly against granolah when they were only SSJ, they also had equal bases before training and only trained techniques, but we see SSBE can keep up with granolah at full power, and we know UIS is a bigger amp than SSBE، and UI is astronomically larger than that. So logic means UI Goku should be far above both granolah and vegeta.
Vegeta endured the pressure point yeah, but you can't compare it to Goku because 1. Vegeta was ready for the attack and even tried to stop it while granolah barely connected, Goku was off guard, and granolah got a clean hit on goku. 2. Vegeta was hit in a non vital point the guts, while Goku was hit in the heart and then immediately punched in the wound hole 3. Vegeta was defeated by the attack regardless, and would've stayed defeated if not for UE's healing.
About stamina, Goku's stamina drain in UI is negligible so is the accuracy drop, goku fought moro for very long and his performance didn't drop at all, he'll beat vegeta before his stamina drops to meaningful levels.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

The accuracy drop is only really relevant when fighting beings such as Granolah who can spot and capitalize on the opponent's weakspot, which is the only reason Granolah defeated Goku, as he was helpless against Perfected UI Goku before that happened

 

[Spinoirr]

Alright I'll change my vote to Goku fra

 

[Axxtentacle]

Granolah offing goku, vegeta taking the pressure point and not losing, goku's stamina, I have countered all these points so many times. But I'll do it again. Your point is goku was offed by granolah, but only his auto dodge was being effected, so granolah scales to goku's full power, this is wrong, Goku was off guard, it's like saying the lazer scales to Goku's full power, it clearly doesn't because goku was suppressed due to being off guard in both cases.

I mean, he knew Granolah was very much still an active threat. I don't see why he would be off guard here, as it was just revealed that he only fought a clone, and that Granolah is very much so still in the fight. He just took that hit.

Why does Goku have the stat advantage? Goku and vegeta have equal bases since they both performed similarly against granolah when they were only SSJ, they also had equal bases before training and only trained techniques, but we see SSBE can keep up with granolah at full power, and we know UIS is a bigger amp than SSBE، and UI is astronomically larger than that. So logic means UI Goku should be far above both granolah and vegeta.

...literally none of this means that Goku has a stat advantage. Vegeta makes it a point even before UE that he's getting stronger, and it's after a while of this back and forth where he's performing well against a normal Granolah (pretty much just as well as Goku performed against the clone) that he tanks the weak-point hit.

If Goku was so much stronger he would be the strongest in the universe, which... is what Granolah is at this time. That's the whole point of his powerup. That he's the strongest. Goku is obviously not WAY ABOVE GRANOLAH.

Vegeta endured the pressure point yeah, but you can't compare it to Goku because 1. Vegeta was ready for the attack and even tried to stop it while granolah barely connected, Goku was off guard, and granolah got a clean hit on goku. 2. Vegeta was hit in a non vital point the guts, while Goku was hit in the heart and then immediately punched in the wound hole 3. Vegeta was defeated by the attack regardless, and would've stayed defeated if not for UE's healing.
About stamina, Goku's stamina drain in UI is negligible so is the accuracy drop, goku fought moro for very long and his performance didn't drop at all, he'll beat vegeta before his stamina drops to meaningful levels.

1. Goku's not off guard, went over that. Vegeta was ready for the attack, but being ready doesn't mean you can stop it lmao. That doesn't change how much damage the hit is going to do to you. Granolah really didn't "barely connect", it was virtually the same hit, just Vegeta had his arm around Granolah. Granolah being physically more powerful than him at the time. 2 You also portray it like that kind of hit in the stomach isn't destroying Vegeta's organs lmao, he's literally bleeding from the mouth, his entire body is tense. It's obviously an extremely damaging hit. 3. The point is not that it didn't **** him up, I fully acknowledge that it did. It's that he took it better than Goku, who according to you, is WAY STRONGER THAN HIM stat-wise. Doesn't make much sense.

I don't see how he's going to hurt Vegeta that much lmao. He didn't even seemingly hurt clone-granolah that bad while in full-UI, and Granolah himself was hurt by SSJB Vegeta who stated he was getting stronger. It makes sense for Vegeta to have a big advantage on Goku right now in the manga, especially in UE.

 

[BoastJr]

For a moment I thought this match was done for...
Lmao what a turn around

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I mean, he knew Granolah was very much still an active threat. I don't see why he would be off guard here, as it was just revealed that he only fought a clone, and that Granolah is very much so still in the fight. He just took that hit.

Goku was distracted by Vegeta when Granolah attacked him. He was very clearly struck off guard

...literally none of this means that Goku has a stat advantage. Vegeta makes it a point even before UE that he's getting stronger, and it's after a while of this back and forth where he's performing well against a normal Granolah (pretty much just as well as Goku performed against the clone) that he tanks the weak-point hit.

Granolah literally couldn't even touch Goku, nor could he even react. Vegeta on the other hand, took a lot of damage from Granolah even with UE and was severely injured becasue of his attacks. It's just that Vegeta is resistant to pain in that form so it didn't bothered him at first

 

[Vizer04]

Goku was distracted by Vegeta when Granolah attacked him. He was very clearly struck off guard

Granolah literally couldn't even touch Goku, nor could he even react. Vegeta on the other hand, took a lot of damage from Granolah even with UE and was severely injured becasue of his attacks. It's just that Vegeta is resistant to pain in that form so it didn't bothered him at first

Granolah's power was splitted in half because of his clone.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Goku was distracted by Vegeta when Granolah attacked him. He was very clearly struck off guard

He was distracted by Vegeta... warning Goku that Granolah wasn't out of the fight, because he sensed Granolah.

Granolah literally couldn't even touch Goku, nor could he even react. Vegeta on the other hand, took a lot of damage from Granolah even with UE and was severely injured becasue of his attacks. It's just that Vegeta is resistant to pain in that form so it didn't bothered him at first

Ah yes, comparing the clone, half of his power, to his full power. Solid logic.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

He was distracted by Vegeta... warning Goku that Granolah wasn't out of the fight, because he sensed Granolah.

He still was distracted, and at this exact moment when Vegeta warned Goku, Granolah striked. Goku wasn't focusing on Granolah at the time, so yeah, he caught him off guard

 

[Axxtentacle]

He still was distracted, and at this exact moment when Vegeta warned Goku, Granolah striked. Goku wasn't focusing on Granolah at the time, so yeah, he caught him off guard

He wasn't prepared for that strike specifically, but it's not like he didn't know he was still in a fight. He had no reason to drop his defense.

 

[WarriorofMite]

Your point is goku was offed by granolah, but only his auto dodge was being effected, so granolah scales to goku's full power, this is wrong, Goku was off guard, it's like saying the lazer scales to Goku's full power, it clearly doesn't because goku was suppressed due to being off guard in both cases.

How is this off guard excuse being used now? The whole point of UI is for Goku to never be off guard since UI allows his body to react on it's own without him thinking. He should never be considered off guard, ever. It's a contradiction to the principle of what UI is and does. Goku getting felled by a lazer gun was PIS. Goku was actively in battle with Granolah and in UI, it seems very hard to justify he was off guard. He was also hit by the real Granolah, not the clone he was fighting. It seemed pretty clear that UI Goku was able to handle the Clone at first but just got one-shot by the real Granolah. Granolah even says the clone only has "some" of his power. Rather than Goku was off guard, it seems more likely that the real Granolah is just much stronger than Goku is.

Why does Goku have the stat advantage? Goku and vegeta have equal bases since they both performed similarly against granolah when they were only SSJ, they also had equal bases before training and only trained techniques, but we see SSBE can keep up with granolah at full power, and we know UIS is a bigger amp than SSBE، and UI is astronomically larger than that. So logic means UI Goku should be far above both granolah and vegeta.

It was heavily implied on Yardrat, that Vegeta has a stronger base than Goku due to his better level of Spirit Control. SSBE was also quantified to be equal to SSBKKx20, making it a 20x boost. UIO Goku was shown in the ToP to be far above this same SSBE Vegeta. Meaning the multiplier for UIO had to be bigger than SSBE. In the Moro Arc, Vegeta's SSBE went from massively weaker than UIO Goku to being superior to UIO Goku. If their bases were the same Vegeta should have been much weaker with his form that gives a lower multiplier to power. Instead he was stronger. Not possible unless Vegeta has a higher base. Now we have UI Goku felled by real Granolah while Vegeta performed better with the same SSBE. Also not possible unless Vegeta's base is much higher than Goku's. Goku only performed so well due to his innate use of UI in non-silver haired forms. Their bases are not equal, your whole argument falls apart because of this.

Saying Goku should be far above Granolah and Vegeta is contradicted by Granolah's wish to be the strongest. Granolah is stronger by default after the wish. We do not know how much stronger he is than the rest of the mortal world so we can't assume Goku's training allowed him to pass Granolah. If it did, then Goku or Vegeta should have beat him pretty easily. Since that didn't happen for either of them, Goku passing him with training did not happen. The feats of the fight itself also contradict this as Vegeta performed better as a SSBE than Goku did with UI and Vegeta was fighting the real Granolah, not a clone like Goku who only had "some" of Granolah's power. Putting Goku above real Granolah seems silly.

Vegeta endured the pressure point yeah, but you can't compare it to Goku because 1. Vegeta was ready for the attack and even tried to stop it while granolah barely connected, Goku was off guard, and granolah got a clean hit on goku. 2. Vegeta was hit in a non vital point the guts, while Goku was hit in the heart and then immediately punched in the wound hole 3. Vegeta was defeated by the attack regardless, and would've stayed defeated if not for UE's healing.
About stamina, Goku's stamina drain in UI is negligible so is the accuracy drop, goku fought moro for very long and his performance didn't drop at all, he'll beat vegeta before his stamina drops to meaningful levels.

1. Goku was in UI and in combat, he wasn't off guard. Granolah is just that much stronger than him. 2. Doubles as a perception feat for Vegeta. Typical in DB when a character is stronger than another. Instead of off guard, Vegeta could just be stronger. It would explain why he took the hit and was able to react to it better than Goku did. 3. Defeated? Vegeta laughs afterwards, talks about getting his blood pumping, then transforms. If he can laugh, indulge in the battle to come, and transform, there isn't much reason to think he was done. He took a big hit that hurt but came back for more. Goku took a hit like that and it was zzzzzzz.

Stamina is pointless in this fight as UE Vegeta can beat Goku even with it not being piss poor. Goku has shown us that UI can be hit by people around his power level. Vegeta is implied to be stronger as a SSBE and probably much stronger as UE. Goku will be fighting an opponent who should be stronger by a large margin, has no stamina drain issues at all, and will continue to get even stronger as the fight goes on. This seems like a pretty cut and dry win for UE Vegeta here.

 

[SemiRaedi]

Vegeta fra

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I mean, he knew Granolah was very much still an active threat. I don't see why he would be off guard here, as it was just revealed that he only fought a clone, and that Granolah is very much so still in the fight. He just took that hit.

No he didn't take that hit. From goku's perspective, he saw granolah say that he's an illusion, then he suddenly disappears, Goku is confused as hell, suddenly vegeta's shouting at goku that granolah's over there and points to a location, then suddenly goku doesn't even know what hit him and then looks down to see Granolah piercing his chest. He didn't even look at granolah or realize he was there until granolah hit him, yeah he had no reason to be off guard, yet he still was off guard very clearly from what happened. So he didn't take the hit, that would be true if he saw granolah and reacted to him and tried to do something but he didn't.

...literally none of this means that Goku has a stat advantage. Vegeta makes it a point even before UE that he's getting stronger, and it's after a while of this back and forth where he's performing well against a normal Granolah (pretty much just as well as Goku performed against the clone) that he tanks the weak-point hit.

If Goku was so much stronger he would be the strongest in the universe, which... is what Granolah is at this time. That's the whole point of his powerup. That he's the strongest. Goku is obviously not WAY ABOVE GRANOLAH.

Yeah vegeta was getting stronger, but since the start of the fight vegeta had already been strong enough to fight on granolah's level as he was able to take numerous hits from and even get away from granolah, and granolah needed aim assist and special techniques to properly damage vegeta, and as vegeta was getting stronger he started being able to get hits on granolah and take his hits even better. And this granolah wasn't suppressed either, he wanted to kill vegeta and wasn't holding back and was even pissed with vegeta when he started making him destroying the ruins of the cerelians, so it's not granolah was holding back. this means SSBE vegeta didn't get that astronomically stronger at all. Don't even bring up granolah's clone, if you believe he was using half power then Goku stomped the shit out of that clone, the clone couldn't even damage Goku, neither Vegeta nor granolah were able to stomp that hard.
Also the "strongest in the universe" shit is brought up in the chapter and explained why it doesn't mean shit. Vegeta says "strongest, second strongest? rankings are well and good, but they only reflect a moment in time, once that moment has passed by, it's nothing but history." This is amazing explanation on why granolah's "strongest" doesn't mean crap.

1. Goku's not off guard, went over that. Vegeta was ready for the attack, but being ready doesn't mean you can stop it lmao. That doesn't change how much damage the hit is going to do to you. Granolah really didn't "barely connect", it was virtually the same hit, just Vegeta had his arm around Granolah. Granolah being physically more powerful than him at the time. 2 You also portray it like that kind of hit in the stomach isn't destroying Vegeta's organs lmao, he's literally bleeding from the mouth, his entire body is tense. It's obviously an extremely damaging hit. 3. The point is not that it didn't **** him up, I fully acknowledge that it did. It's that he took it better than Goku, who according to you, is WAY STRONGER THAN HIM stat-wise. Doesn't make much sense.

Being ready doesn't mean you can stop it, yes, that's not the point though, being ready means vegeta wasn't suppressed unlike Goku. Vegeta tried to stop the move and grabbed granolah's hand but granolah was stronger and was still able to connect, which is why took damage but he still showed resistance, Goku was off guard and couldn't show any resistance. 2. Vegeta had his organs destroyed, but they weren't vital organs, he got hit in the abs, which is where the guts and stomach are, these aren't vital organs, vital organs are the heart and lungs for example, which goku got hit directly in and then punched in the wound and sent halfway across the planet right after, I'm not saying that vegeta's case wasn't severe, I'm saying you can't compare it to what Goku took, which is why scaling Goku to that K.O. is wrong 3. Yes, he took it better than Goku, but his case was so much less severe than what Goku took, that it would be wrong to compare them as if they were the same thing. I already highlighted why Goku's case was far more severe.

I don't see how he's going to hurt Vegeta that much lmao. He didn't even seemingly hurt clone-granolah that bad while in full-UI, and Granolah himself was hurt by SSJB Vegeta who stated he was getting stronger. It makes sense for Vegeta to have a big advantage on Goku right now in the manga, especially in UE.

UI Goku stomped granolah's clone so hard that he didn't even look at him and defeated him in a few attacks, the only reason he didn't off him immediately is because he wanted to talk since he knew granolah wasn't a bad dude and that it was a misunderstanding. There are no anti feats for Goku here, and since vegeta didn't that much stronger, the gap from UIS is bigger than SSBE and UI is ridiculously above that, while UE is barely that big an amp and didn't even turn a stomp around.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Vegeta wins this, Goku lose really quick to real body Granolah while Vegeta could stay fighting for more time, ''But Accuracy drop'' And? how does it matter if it also will quickly drain against Vegeta as well? also, Goku have no real scaling with Granolah true body while Vegeta does

I vote Vegeta

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Vegeta wins this, Goku lose really quick to real body Granolah while Vegeta could stay fighting for more time, ''But Accuracy drop'' And? how does it matter if it also will quickly drain against Vegeta as well? also, Goku have no real scaling with Granolah true body while Vegeta does

I vote Vegeta

Because Granolah could exploit Goku's weakspot when he saw one after his accuracy dropped, while the same can't be said for Vegeta.
Granolah was also catching him off guard when he striked Goku. Vegeta is also going to let himself be damaged on purpose in this fight as seen with his fight against Granolah

 

[ShockingShoes]

How is this off guard excuse being used now? The whole point of UI is for Goku to never be off guard since UI allows his body to react on it's own without him thinking. He should never be considered off guard, ever. It's a contradiction to the principle of what UI is and does. Goku getting felled by a lazer gun was PIS. Goku was actively in battle with Granolah and in UI, it seems very hard to justify he was off guard. He was also hit by the real Granolah, not the clone he was fighting. It seemed pretty clear that UI Goku was able to handle the Clone at first but just got one-shot by the real Granolah. Granolah even says the clone only has "some" of his power. Rather than Goku was off guard, it seems more likely that the real Granolah is just much stronger than Goku is.

I literally showed scans that Goku was heavily implied to be off guard due to his facial expressions. Instead of being calm and collected like Goku has always been with not one exception up until this point in Ultra Instinct, his face was filled with surprise, with him being confused and with his brain being unable to comprehend what happened, before he is one shot by Granolah having a preparation time before he launches his attack, not to mention that Granolah's race's entire strong suit is accuracy.

It was heavily implied on Yardrat, that Vegeta has a stronger base than Goku due to his better level of Spirit Control. SSBE was also quantified to be equal to SSBKKx20, making it a 20x boost. UIO Goku was shown in the ToP to be far above this same SSBE Vegeta. Meaning the multiplier for UIO had to be bigger than SSBE. In the Moro Arc, Vegeta's SSBE went from massively weaker than UIO Goku to being superior to UIO Goku. If their bases were the same Vegeta should have been much weaker with his form that gives a lower multiplier to power. Instead he was stronger. Not possible unless Vegeta has a higher base. Now we have UI Goku felled by real Granolah while Vegeta performed better with the same SSBE. Also not possible unless Vegeta's base is much higher than Goku's. Goku only performed so well due to his innate use of UI in non-silver haired forms. Their bases are not equal, your whole argument falls apart because of this.

I'm just going to ignore this point due to the constant debunking that it's received on our part.

Saying Goku should be far above Granolah and Vegeta is contradicted by Granolah's wish to be the strongest. Granolah is stronger by default after the wish. We do not know how much stronger he is than the rest of the mortal world so we can't assume Goku's training allowed him to pass Granolah. If it did, then Goku or Vegeta should have beat him pretty easily. Since that didn't happen for either of them, Goku passing him with training did not happen. The feats of the fight itself also contradict this as Vegeta performed better as a SSBE than Goku did with UI and Vegeta was fighting the real Granolah, not a clone like Goku who only had "some" of Granolah's power. Putting Goku above real Granolah seems silly.


1. Goku was in UI and in combat, he wasn't off guard. Granolah is just that much stronger than him. 2. Doubles as a perception feat for Vegeta. Typical in DB when a character is stronger than another. Instead of off guard, Vegeta could just be stronger. It would explain why he took the hit and was able to react to it better than Goku did. 3. Defeated? Vegeta laughs afterwards, talks about getting his blood pumping, then transforms. If he can laugh, indulge in the battle to come, and transform, there isn't much reason to think he was done. He took a big hit that hurt but came back for more. Goku took a hit like that and it was zzzzzzz.

Stamina is pointless in this fight as UE Vegeta can beat Goku even with it not being piss poor. Goku has shown us that UI can be hit by people around his power level. Vegeta is implied to be stronger as a SSBE and probably much stronger as UE. Goku will be fighting an opponent who should be stronger by a large margin, has no stamina drain issues at all, and will continue to get even stronger as the fight goes on. This seems like a pretty cut and dry win for UE Vegeta here.

No, we can use specifics due to the fact that Granolah is >Beerus but << Vegeta & Goku.

I'm kinda just done with this thread now. The arguments are the exact same ones that have been said or ones that are incredibly simple to debunk. I think someone should request this thread be taken down since we just don't have enough statistics for UE Vegeta or Granolah to scale them properly yet.

 

[Axxtentacle]

No he didn't take that hit. From goku's perspective, he saw granolah say that he's an illusion, then he suddenly disappears, Goku is confused as hell, suddenly vegeta's shouting at goku that granolah's over there and points to a location, then suddenly goku doesn't even know what hit him and then looks down to see Granolah piercing his chest. He didn't even look at granolah or realize he was there until granolah hit him, yeah he had no reason to be off guard, yet he still was off guard very clearly from what happened. So he didn't take the hit, that would be true if he saw granolah and reacted to him and tried to do something but he didn't.

But he wouldn't have been off guard, his defense shouldn't have been down. Not expecting that one specific hit doesn't mean he would've dropped his defense entirely, especially considering what just happened.

Confusion =/= not having your defense up.

Yeah vegeta was getting stronger, but since the start of the fight vegeta had already been strong enough to fight on granolah's level as he was able to take numerous hits from and even get away from granolah, and granolah needed aim assist and special techniques to properly damage vegeta, and as vegeta was getting stronger he started being able to get hits on granolah and take his hits even better. And this granolah wasn't suppressed either, he wanted to kill vegeta and wasn't holding back and was even pissed with vegeta when he started making him destroying the ruins of the cerelians, so it's not granolah was holding back. this means SSBE vegeta didn't get that astronomically stronger at all. Don't even bring up granolah's clone, if you believe he was using half power then Goku stomped the shit out of that clone, the clone couldn't even damage Goku, neither Vegeta nor granolah were able to stomp that hard.

UI Goku stomped the clone, yes. But SSJB didn't. He was even. With half of Granolah's power. Just seems like you're dancing around that.

Also the "strongest in the universe" shit is brought up in the chapter and explained why it doesn't mean shit. Vegeta says "strongest, second strongest? rankings are well and good, but they only reflect a moment in time, once that moment has passed by, it's nothing but history." This is amazing explanation on why granolah's "strongest" doesn't mean crap.

But in raw power he's obviously still the strongest. Hell, Vegeta knows Granolah's stronger and makes the point that Granolah doesn't know HOW TO USE IT.

So, in short, he's still the strongest lmao.

Being ready doesn't mean you can stop it, yes, that's not the point though, being ready means vegeta wasn't suppressed unlike Goku. Vegeta tried to stop the move and grabbed granolah's hand but granolah was stronger and was still able to connect, which is why took damage but he still showed resistance, Goku was off guard and couldn't show any resistance.

You really seem to want to hold to the point that confusion = literally turning your defense off entirely when Granolah doesn't make any mention of this, just that he wanted the autododge to be weakened when he attacked.

2. Vegeta had his organs destroyed, but they weren't vital organs, he got hit in the abs, which is where the guts and stomach are, these aren't vital organs, vital organs are the heart and lungs for example, which goku got hit directly in and then punched in the wound and sent halfway across the planet right after, I'm not saying that vegeta's case wasn't severe, I'm saying you can't compare it to what Goku took, which is why scaling Goku to that K.O. is wrong

implying that destroying organs of any kind isn't extremely bad
implying force wouldn't have travelled and ****** the rest of his organs either
implying Granolah would go for an inherently worse spot to hit on Vegeta than he did Goku despite being more pissed with Vegeta

I mean hell, organs didn't even have to be destroyed. Just ****** up. Because both goku and vegeta had to heal themselves to recover, but here's the thing: UI is a significantly bigger amp than SSJBE. And UI took the hit worse stat-wise.

3. Yes, he took it better than Goku, but his case was so much less severe than what Goku took, that it would be wrong to compare them as if they were the same thing. I already highlighted why Goku's case was far more severe.

But it's just not, any kind of extreme organ damage is very much so able to **** anyone up. It's internal bleeding and an extremely swift death either way. And either way, I want you to answer this: Why would Granolah have gone for a significantly less severe spot to hit Vegeta in? He has no reason to, in fact, he has reason to do the EXACT OPPOSITE.

UI Goku stomped granolah's clone so hard that he didn't even look at him and defeated him in a few attacks, the only reason he didn't off him immediately is because he wanted to talk since he knew granolah wasn't a bad dude and that it was a misunderstanding. There are no anti feats for Goku here, and since vegeta didn't that much stronger, the gap from UIS is bigger than SSBE and UI is ridiculously above that, while UE is barely that big an amp and didn't even turn a stomp around.

Stomping the clone means a whole lot of nothing, you know that, right? This point about UIS being a bigger amp than SSBE just HURTS YOU. Because SSBE vegeta endured the hit better than UI goku. UI is then WAY HIGHER, and SSBE STILL took the hit better. Then he gets the UE boost and is able to fight for an extended period of time with the dude who just ****** up his weaker form who endured the hit better than Goku.

I will stand by the point of Goku being confused doesn't mean his defense should be down.