• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Space-Time Manipulation For All Pokemon

Pretty much the same as before.

Decide who will make the blog (unless everyone wants me to make it) and decide what general type of space-time hax the mons will get that isnt specific to a species line.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
I see. I guess it’s either Interaction or some minor scale space-time destruction. Or both.

Hawluchas feat should definitely be the latter, but for those comparable to or > to the Hawlucha line and Ashes.
Click to expand...
I mean, since Hawluchas could realistically destroy a wall the same way, it’d be Interaction. It’s not like his attack is doing anything differently to Space and Time being manipulated as he would be by attacking a physical 3D object.
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't be surprised if the page ended up expanding more with more updates.

For example:
Aura, if I remember correctly, is something that all Pokémon have.
 
Well I’ve been asking who wants to make the blog with the evidence.

While I have some other things to take care of, I said I wouldn’t mind doing it if everyone else was with it (though I never got an ok or anything in response).
 
Another thread should be made to discuss the Pokemon Physiology itself, as I suggested a lot of time ago.
And remember that a physiology page, as all the other physiology pages, must include only things that all Pokemon have by default, from birth to death, nothing that is limited to a part of them, regardless of the method or way it is obtained. Therefore nothing that is obtained through special training, a specific growth or lifestyle, something that only X number Pokemon possess while others not etc...
 
About that Pokémon Physiology page, I found some issues:
  • Statistics Amplification: First scan is implied that was with some move (was that Helping Hand right?), the second is more a way to say that when 2 Pokémon team up, they're better than just 1, not that their AP is literally multiplied, 3rd is unrelated since is literally a special case.
  • Social Influencing: ...wasn't that because generally Pokémon are considered the biggest form of entertainment in the verse? It should be pretty normal that people get excited when they see their moves, like when we see animals/powerful veichles in action, is not that they have Social Influencing because we like seeing them. Also this is a reference to irl pet owners (especially dogs) become more sociable than before, is not a real Pokémon power.
  • This is not really Body Control, since is not done with instant will, but another evidence for Reactive Evolution
  • Accelerated Development: EXP are counted as Game Mechanics and this is literally just a non-canon promo made from WB to lead kids to read more...
  • Resurrection: ...no. I mean, It happened just once, and that was mostly Pikachu having another plot armor to not make Ash die, are we even sure that wasn't rectoned?
  • Longevity: I agree but this is clearly an hyperbole already debunked from the concept of Fossil Pokémon.
  • Enhanced Senses/Extrasensory Perception: Unlike who else said before, even the scans for well-trained Pokémon should be in, since they're used most of the time in vs threads.
  • Resistance to Fear Manipulation and Disease Manipulation: Put just "Limited Resistance to Fear", since they were still terrified from that, but full Resistance to Disease is fine.
  • As well as Minor Self-Resurrection: Why tho
 
  • I don't know about the first being Helping Hand or not, but I agree with the promo saying just that 2 are better than 1. The third too doesn't fit a general physiology page since it's a special case, and Mystery Dungeon isn't longer considered part of the general continuity.
  • I'm neutral on social influencing.
  • Reactive evolution shouldn't be really a thing for the first scan, since it's just explaining how the Pokemon evolves, which is basically their normal growing process (even though there are exceptions) but it doesn't fit the definition of reactive evolution. Also, that scan comes from the first generation manga, when real animals where still a thing in the pokemon world, as seen in the early pokedex entries. I also disagree with Scyther because, as pointed out at the time, that is a power that Scyther obtained thanks to its special bond with Blue. All Pokemon may have the potential to obtain it by bonding in a special way with their trainer, but not all pokemon, especially wild ones, have that bond. The fat body thing may be Adaptation, though, even if it can be a stretch to extend the same to all Pokemon, since some are literally ghosts, plants, inorganic beings and more.
  • Adaptation is fine, it just needs to be specified that is done over a long period of time. Eating everything is just their biology, not adaptation, I think.
  • I agree with exp being game mechanics and the promo just being a promo, while the second link is some japanese thing related to the card game, can it really be counted? and most of all I'd like to know what's written there.
  • I agree that Resurrection shouldn't be a thing, it's just some weird plot armor that happened once without being explained and isn't referred anywhere else in the entire franchise.
  • Regeneration too shouldn't be a included. Two of the evidences are anime gags, the other are taking for literal game animations, which shouldn't be done, otherwise we can come up with all genre of weird things or powers just to give credit of animations made for visual purposes. Also, that is contradicted by basically all the rest of the anime and the manga, where Pokemon are injuried and knocked out by less amount of damage and still needs to be healed. Also, we almost never see them being hurted and wounded so much in a serious context.
  • Longevity can be valid for Snorlax, but it's unproven that all Pokemon can live so much, we even have Pokemon graveyards with some Trainers that outlived their Pokemon. The Gyarados dialogue is a blatant hyperbole said to mock the protagonist and also comes from Mystery Dungeon.
  • I agree with enhanced senses, but only for the mega stones, the Let's Go scans and the season thing. Finding objects isn't really a power. Stuff obtained through bond implies that a Pokemon must have a trainer and it has to have spent a long time and in a special way with it, something that can't be in a physiology page, because it doesn't encompasses all Pokemon by default, especially the wild ones used for the profiles. For example, in a human physiology you don't put weapon, vehicular, stealth mastery etc... just because humans can learn it with training, or in a saiyan physiology you don't put all the powers that Goku, Vegeta etc.. have just because they learned moves, techniques etc...
  • Matter and Light come from a specific move and from the assumption that they turned their attacks into light and smoke, which is totaly unproved and can very likely be just a light effect, since the Pokemon in those contests are trained to adapt their moves to shining lights and other effects to please the public, i.e. a different method to apply the powers they already have.
  • Authomatic translation is fine, but we need to establish what source is that and if it's reliable.
  • Non-Physical interaction is fine, I guess, but it must be limited since normal and fighting types can't affect the ghosts, and it's still borderline in encompassing everyone.
  • I guess that self-sealing is fine
  • Agree with resistance to Mimikyu
  • The poison, as stated at the time, is just the evolution of gameplay mechanics and its functioning changes in every game, hence in this case no one should be more valid than another, especially in a gameplay mechanic.
  • I'm against Acid and corrosion because it's giving additional effect to moves that esplicity do another thing. Also, as I said in the blog there are many other acid moves that deal damage. Gastroacid also can be learned by spiders, snakes, monkeys, funguses and aliens, all of which are different beings with different bodies and biology. Also, Pokemon like Vectribeel are explicity stated to use their internal acids to melt the prey.
  • I agree with resistance to fragrance for fully evolved and strong Pokemon, because i comes with their normal growing process, although it has to be specified. Poison gas shouldn't be considered because its effect is to poison, and, as before, we can't give additional unconfirmed powers to moves that have different effects.
  • I agree with resistance to sealing
  • I agree with limited resistance to life force absorption, though the Azelf scan needs to be proven realible in order to be used (but it doesn't affect the power in general)
  • I disagree with resistance to element because that greatly varies depending on each type and combination, without encompassing every Pokemon.
 
Last edited:
Also for the regen thing, one of the scans was TR meowth right? Well he is, you know, a toon forcey inconsistent pokemon? Definitely not applicable to everyone
 
I'm quite interested in the Pokemon Physiology Page's discussion. If/When a page for it is being discussed, I'd love a link to the thread.
Is there one up already?
 
StrymULTRA said:
About that Pokémon Physiology page, I found some issues:
  • Statistics Amplification: First scan is implied that was with some move (was that Helping Hand right?), the second is more a way to say that when 2 Pokémon team up, they're better than just 1, not that their AP is literally multiplied, 3rd is unrelated since is literally a special case.
  • Social Influencing: ...wasn't that because generally Pokémon are considered the biggest form of entertainment in the verse? It should be pretty normal that people get excited when they see their moves, like when we see animals/powerful veichles in action, is not that they have Social Influencing because we like seeing them. Also this is a reference to irl pet owners (especially dogs) become more sociable than before, is not a real Pokémon power.
  • This is not really Body Control, since is not done with instant will, but another evidence for Reactive Evolution
  • Accelerated Development: EXP are counted as Game Mechanics and this is literally just a non-canon promo made from WB to lead kids to read more...
  • Resurrection: ...no. I mean, It happened just once, and that was mostly Pikachu having another plot armor to not make Ash die, are we even sure that wasn't rectoned?
  • Longevity: I agree but this is clearly an hyperbole already debunked from the concept of Fossil Pokémon.
  • Enhanced Senses/Extrasensory Perception: Unlike who else said before, even the scans for well-trained Pokémon should be in, since they're used most of the time in vs threads.
  • Resistance to Fear Manipulation and Disease Manipulation: Put just "Limited Resistance to Fear", since they were still terrified from that, but full Resistance to Disease is fine.
  • As well as Minor Self-Resurrection: Why tho
Click to expand...
Clemont was talking about Frogadier and Talonflame, which I know isn't immediately clear.

That doesn't mean actual pets can't have Social Influencing either. Also, Social Influencing isn't a super power.

What does working out have to do with Reactive Evolution?

That doesn't mean they don't grow quicker, and the Kids WB! commercial isn't the only evidence linked.

It was actually foreshadowed in the same movie. "The ancient writings tell of the storm wiping out all but a few Pokémon. In their sorrow, the water of their tears somehow restored the lives lost in the storm. But there are no Pokémon tears today. Just waters which no one can survive." And no, it wasn't retconned, as that same movie's Mewtwo actually showed up in the last episode.

Fossil Pokemon are Pokemon that went extinct. The Gyarados line has never been extinct.

"Resistance" doesn't mean they're completely immune to something up to a certain point, it means they're affected less by it than normal.

Because resisting life force draining doubles as that, or so I'm told.
 
Last edited:
SamanPatou said:
  • I don't know about the first being Helping Hand or not, but I agree with the promo saying just that 2 are better than 1. The third too doesn't fit a general physiology page since it's a special case, and Mystery Dungeon isn't longer considered part of the general continuity.
  • I'm neutral on social influencing.
  • Reactive evolution shouldn't be really a thing for the first scan, since it's just explaining how the Pokemon evolves, which is basically their normal growing process (even though there are exceptions) but it doesn't fit the definition of reactive evolution. Also, that scan comes from the first generation manga, when real animals where still a thing in the pokemon world, as seen in the early pokedex entries. I also disagree with Scyther because, as pointed out at the time, that is a power that Scyther obtained thanks to its special bond with Blue. All Pokemon may have the potential to obtain it by bonding in a special way with their trainer, but not all pokemon, especially wild ones, have that bond. The fat body thing may be Adaptation, though, even if it can be a stretch to extend the same to all Pokemon, since some are literally ghosts, plants, inorganic beings and more.
  • Adaptation is fine, it just needs to be specified that is done over a long period of time. Eating everything is just their biology, not adaptation, I think.
  • I agree with exp being game mechanics and the promo just being a promo, while the second link is some japanese thing related to the card game, can it really be counted? and most of all I'd like to know what's written there.
  • I agree that Resurrection shouldn't be a thing, it's just some weird plot armor that happened once without being explained and isn't referred anywhere else in the entire franchise.
  • Regeneration too shouldn't be a included. Two of the evidences are anime gags, the other are taking for literal game animations, which shouldn't be done, otherwise we can come up with all genre of weird things or powers just to give credit of animations made for visual purposes. Also, that is contradicted by basically all the rest of the anime and the manga, where Pokemon are injuried and knocked out by less amount of damage and still needs to be healed. Also, we almost never see them being hurted and wounded so much in a serious context.
  • Longevity can be valid for Snorlax, but it's unproven that all Pokemon can live so much, we even have Pokemon graveyards with some Trainers that outlived their Pokemon. The Gyarados dialogue is a blatant hyperbole said to mock the protagonist and also comes from Mystery Dungeon.
  • I agree with enhanced senses, but only for the mega stones, the Let's Go scans and the season thing. Finding objects isn't really a power. Stuff obtained through bond implies that a Pokemon must have a trainer and it has to have spent a long time and in a special way with it, something that can't be in a physiology page, because it doesn't encompasses all Pokemon by default, especially the wild ones used for the profiles. For example, in a human physiology you don't put weapon, vehicular, stealth mastery etc... just because humans can learn it with training, or in a saiyan physiology you don't put all the powers that Goku, Vegeta etc.. have just because they learned moves, techniques etc...
  • Matter and Light come from a specific move and from the assumption that they turned their attacks into light and smoke, which is totaly unproved and can very likely be just a light effect, since the Pokemon in those contests are trained to adapt their moves to shining lights and other effects to please the public, i.e. a different method to apply the powers they already have.
  • Authomatic translation is fine, but we need to establish what source is that and if it's reliable.
  • Non-Physical interaction is fine, I guess, but it must be limited since normal and fighting types can't affect the ghosts, and it's still borderline in encompassing everyone.
  • I guess that self-sealing is fine
  • Agree with resistance to Mimikyu
  • The poison, as stated at the time, is just the evolution of gameplay mechanics and its functioning changes in every game, hence in this case no one should be more valid than another, especially in a gameplay mechanic.
  • I'm against Acid and corrosion because it's giving additional effect to moves that esplicity do another thing. Also, as I said in the blog there are many other acid moves that deal damage. Gastroacid also can be learned by spiders, snakes, monkeys, funguses and aliens, all of which are different beings with different bodies and biology. Also, Pokemon like Vectribeel are explicity stated to use their internal acids to melt the prey.
  • I agree with resistance to fragrance for fully evolved and strong Pokemon, because i comes with their normal growing process, although it has to be specified. Poison gas shouldn't be considered because its effect is to poison, and, as before, we can't give additional unconfirmed powers to moves that have different effects.
  • I agree with resistance to sealing
  • I agree with limited resistance to life force absorption, though the Azelf scan needs to be proven realible in order to be used (but it doesn't affect the power in general)
  • I disagree with resistance to element because that greatly varies depending on each type and combination, without encompassing every Pokemon.
Click to expand...
  • Clemont was talking about Frogadier and Talonflame, which I know isn't immediately clear. the third is under a further bullet point because it ONLY applies to teamed up Pokemon.
  • If their growing process is equivalent to ordinary animals evolving over millions of years, then it should still count. And they aren't IRL animals, they're just miscellaneous monsters. Where does it say that it was because of the bond? Also we know all Pokemon can eat, so it should apply to all Pokemon.
  • Other profiles seem to use being able to eat human food as Adaptation.
  • That doesn't mean they don't grow quicker, and the Kids WB! commercial isn't the only evidence linked. And the paragraph with the statement says: "You can become stronger in battle just by reading!? Manga "Pokemon Card Game XY Let's Do It!" Is "Monthly CoroCoro Ichiban! ] , Now in the very popular serialization!"
  • It was actually foreshadowed earlier in the movie. "The ancient writings tell of the storm wiping out all but a few Pokémon. In their sorrow, the water of their tears somehow restored the lives lost in the storm. But there are no Pokémon tears today. Just waters which no one can survive."
  • We actually can't, or else I'd have put them on there as well. And all those times occur because the Pokemon run out of HP, which is a Pokemon's stamina. The Pokemon come back from being smashed flat because they're far from out of stamina. And do you really believe there are many serious contexts in Pokemon?
  • It is never stated by even one person that their Pokemon died of old age. How is stating you've lived a million years mocking your opponent? Also we literally use calcs on this site from Mystery Dungeon sources.
  • If you consistently find things that humans are unable to, that's grounds for Enhanced Senses.
  • What, do you think there's a timer in those smoke explosions to say when they'll turn into sparkles? Because that would still prove my point.
  • It's from Pokemon Junior #3: Save Our Squirtle!, one of two Pokemon anime original books. The statement is also proven by basically any media where two Pokemon of different species communicate.
  • Victreebel cannot learn Gastro Acid by level, and the one 'Dex entry that states Weepinbel does the same as Victreebel is noncanon.
  • I literally say on the profile why it encompasses every Pokemon.
 
We should really move this discussion to a proper thread. (Part of the fault is mine)

Regarding the space-time thing, I'm mostly neutral but I think that if it gets accepted then it has to be extended to all Pokemon.
 
Last edited:
I agree with putting it in another thread, yet, we should wait even this one to finish, but there aren't calc members to check it so we'll have to wait
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Because resisting life force draining doubles as that, or so I'm told.
Click to expand...
Clarifying on this since I told you this. The scan specifically said that if Scyther had strong enough willpower, it would be able to live despite those conditions. It was pretty much dead in the state it was in too, but its willpower would bring it back from that.
 
That's the Clefairy from the Pocket Monster manga where all Pokémon speak and act human-like, which is just the tip of the iceberg on how weird this gag manga is.
 
Another thing to point out, by the way, is that Hawlucha broke through Trick Room because the move he used was X-Scissor, a Bug-type move, and it’s specifically stated that it’s because Bug is Super Effective against Psychic that Ash’s little maneuver was able to work.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Another thing to point out, by the way, is that Hawlucha broke through Trick Room because the move he used was X-Scissor, a Bug-type move, and it’s specifically stated that it’s because Bug is Super Effective against Psychic that Ash’s little maneuver was able to work.
Click to expand...
That doesn’t matter because it isn’t as if the X-Scizzor made direct contact with the trick room

Hawluchas attack hit Spritzee, who was then physically knocked into and smashed through the trick room by the move, causing it to break.

If X-Scizzor directly destroyed it, I’d be more inclined to agree. But Spiritzee being physically pushed into it to smash apart Trick Room shows that it’s brute force being more at play.
 
So would the interpretation be that Trick Room has physical boundaries that can be shattered by impacts, & the breaking of such boundaries causes the effects of Trick Room to cease??
Dare I say it, but I'm inclined to say that seems bizarre & inconsistent.
 
No, it just means what the feat meant beforehand when I posted it.

That Pokémon are able to, on a very minor level, destroy space-time. Hawluchas feat in particular may be strength based, but its by all means the same.
 
Spritzee didn't go flying into Trick Room, we literally see the X hit the giant Trick Room box.
Also, directly from the episode, JUST after it happens: "Even if Bug-type moves are not very effective against Fairy types, they are super effective on Trick Room, since it is a Psychic move."
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Spritzee didn't go flying into Trick Room, we literally see the X hit the giant Trick Room box.
Click to expand...
No, watch the scene again. Hawlucha pushed Spritzee into the trick room using X-Scizzor on her and then the trick room was smashed apart, indicating that it was smashed because of sheer force.

There’s also the fact that Hawlucha earlier in the battle hit Trick Room directly with X-scizzor and didn’t smash Trick Room apart at that time. If it was simply about hitting it with a super effective attack, this wouldn’t have been the case.

Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Also, directly from the episode, JUST after it happens: "Even if Bug-type moves are not very effective against Fairy types, they are super effective on Trick Room, since it is a Psychic move."
Click to expand...
Of course it being super effective would make things even better in Hawluchas favor, but it isn’t the sole cause of the feat as you can refer to above.
 
I’ll give you the scene itself again for you to see and the time stamp.



2:21. Hawlucha directly made contact with Trick Room using x-scizzor at point blank range, and it didn’t get destroyed.

2:32 onward. Hawlucha used Spiritzees gyro ball to make a backflip and then rush at her with X-Scizzor. Spritzee then counters with a moonblast, which Hawlucha powers through and smashes into her, which then pushes her into Trick Room, smashing it apart.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Everything12
  • Locked
Pokemon Tier 1 Upgrade? (Distortion World range and Arceus)
2
Replies
56
Views
4K
Everything12
Everything12
LuffyRuffy46307
  • Locked
Dragon Ball Conceptual Manipulation End Closing
2 3 4
Replies
143
Views
9K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
William_Joee
Doraemon 2-B Cosmology Upgrade
2
Replies
44
Views
3K
William_Joee
William_Joee
SamanPatou
About Toei Saiyans' Space Survival
Replies
34
Views
1K
Maverick_Zero_X
Maverick_Zero_X
Kuruel
physics and dimesion travel
Replies
1
Views
505
henryzx900ruly
henryzx900ruly
Back
Top