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Regarding Cross Verse Scaling

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Ionliosite

Ionliosite

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Due to the issues brought up on this thread, I'm here to question the choice of scaling Shigeo Kageyama to Tornado of Terror, using the following points as the main basis:

  • The verses have a completely different setting
  • The verses have completely different power systems
  • There's no supporting feat even close to Tatsumaki's
As Ant already said on that thread, he's HEAVILY against the idea of cross-scaling, and only accepted because he was extremely busy with other tasks while Ryukama kept pushing for the upgrade. This upgrade set up a bad precendent that allowed cross-scaling between totally unrelated verses, Reinhard Heydrich's 3-A rating likely being the most famous example, and thus this is to cut the problem from the root.
 
Schnee One said:
I thought Reinhards 3A was scaling above Methuselah?
Click to expand...
Rein is 3-B via scaling to Meth. 3-A comes from scaling to Senshinkan characters, who aren't part of the Shinza Bansho verse.
 
I mean, if its stated by the author I can go with it. If its via things like the scp that can enter stories and "copy characters" (literally fanfic), then I dunno.
 
SchroKatze said:
I mean, if its stated by the author I can go with it.
Click to expand...
Read the thread I linked, Ant, Mitch and Calaca explain why that's unrealible and shouldn't be done.
 
Welp, its just a "supporting" statement, since his DI self is on a whole other level to his IKABEY self, who casually one-shot 3-B Methuselah.
 
... I'll ask you to read the thread once again if you seriously think that debunks the arguments given there.
 
Ionliosite said:
... I'll ask you to read the thread once again if you seriously think that debunks the arguments given there.
Click to expand...
I'll ask you to interpret what I said correctly. I'm not insisting it should be used, just explaining thats not the sole reason for his 3-A tier. If you guys decided to remove the crossverse scaling, so be it.

I even said that I'm okay if its an author statement, I didn't claim it should be the absolute standard.
 
@Schrokatze Just making sure how high into 3-B is Methuselah? Cause I don't remember character jumping tiers for being much stronger than their previous much weaker self that one shot somebody that is unquantifiable into a tier. I'm pretty sure you have to at the very least be in the + range for tier jumping via one shotting or being much stronger to be accepted.

And to be honest I don't think we should remove all cross verse scaling. It should be fine as long as it's made by the same author and the statements make sense and aren't really contradicted by anything in either series.
 
I personally disagree there. Cross-scaling between Mob and Tatsumaki set a bad standard that's being used to inflate character stats, with Shinza Bansho being a good example, due to the fact every single 3-A on the verse scales to Nakiri Kuubou, despite the fact Senshinkan is a totally unrelated setting with vastly different power systems and cosmology.
 
@Ionliosite: Slight correction there, the 3-A is more of Reinhard (and any others like him) being scaled to the Gods of Amakasu's Ragnarok, who are comparable or even stronger than Huanglong, who in turn is stronger than Kuubou who did the 3-A feat.

Aside that, cross-verse scaling has been a bit of an issue for me in the way that does lead to inflating character stats. Especially when the characters involved in the scaling are from two different settings.

However, I do think cross-verse scaling could be used IF a characters feat or power is at a level to that of another series or character(s) and that series the author also made has them at a level the first character is comparable to.

It could be case-by-case probably. Or maybe it could be better to have it go away. All other options of this, I'm otherwise neutral on.
 
I disagreed with cross scaling before and I still do now, if you don't even exist in someone's setting, scaling shouldn't even be possible

Can't do anything if everyone else thinks differently though
 
I agree with Andy.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
Would this include something like Ben 10 and Generator Rex for example?
Click to expand...
Ben 10 and Generator Rex will have a much better case then most verses on the site. I also don't think cross-scaling should be disallowed completely, you just need to have a good case.
 
"The verses have completely different power systems" is a pretty disingenuous argument in my opinion. They're two characters by the same author but they have the same type of powers. I also don't see the relevance of the setting being different when again both are espers.

The third complaint is valid though.
 
Yeah, I love OPM, but cross scaling verse really shouldn't be a thing in any circumstance. Not only do we treat death of the author as a big deal here, 99% of the time authors don't know their character's strength, or treat it, in the same way we do. They don't do calcs or whatever, do you really think an author knows that creating a storm is really that impressive? Most likely not.

So even if the author was the one that said "X character is stronger than Y character" it shouldn't be listened to.
 
Ogbuna summarised my own views quite well.
 
I'm not a fan of cross-scaling either. Not only is death of the author a thing, but it can get carried away even further than what it is right now (remember when that false statement about Kishimoto saying EoS Naruto characters were Nappa level was going around?). Characters should be judged by their own feats, is what I'm saying.
 
I think that cross-verse scaling can be used for characters that are original to these very crossover events, such as the case of Amalgam.

But otherwise, things such as the Author statements are a no to me.
 
I agree, different characters from different verses should scale from their own verses' feats, lore, ect. Even if authors are allegedly knowledgeable on power scaling, that doesn't mean they always get everything right. Also, on topic, Bethesda said Doom Slayer was going to be the strongest character they ever created; implying he would solo The Elder Scrolls. That would be one of the worst, if not the worst example of cross-scaling via author statements I can think of.

So in other words, I agree that the cross scaling shouldn't be used and both characters should receive a Tier or speed downgrade to the point where the basis comes from their own verse and not each others.
 
Out of curiosity, what if characters made by the same person crossed over? For example, would Mario scale to Link and vice versa if they fought in a Mario game (they didn't), as both are made by Nintendo and more specifically Miyamoto?
 
Link and Samus have both appeared in cross overs with Mario; example Super Mario RPG. Though they never fought and even if they did, I wouldn't use them for scaling.
 
Can somebody please inspect our Crossovers page to see if we need to modify the text in it according to our conclusions here? I think that we did so previously in relation to the thread that caused our current problems.
 
Looking at this again, I think I'm more inclined to agree on just a no for cross-series scaling as a whole. Andy even points one simple factor that some, including myself, probably miss out on: The fact that neither character who are being compared to or scaled as stronger over the other by their author don't exist in each other's settings.

Cal's mentioning about how it can be carried away even further is something that has happened for Shinza and Senshinkan (and still is atm, depending on the outcome of this thread) as well as that of OPM and MoB 100 (same as Shinza and Senshinkan).
 
I do want to wait on Ryukama unless he doesn't wish to bother, however, if he doesn't show up, I am inclined to agree
 
Yes, I will ask Ryukama to come here. It is disrespectful to just secretly overrule him behind his back.
 
I have done so.
 
Mob and Tatsumaki are both ONE's characters that he wrote. There is nothing that contradicts the statement whatsoever. It is literally the exact same thing as the Boros and Garou statement.

The nature of the statement is the same and all the same arguments of "Oh but death of the author" or "But what if the author didn't actually know how strong their characters were" can be said there. And the idea that ONE's word of god is valid when comparing 2 characters that never met in the same story he wrote yet magically turns invalid with 2 characters that never met in 2 stories that he still wrote is ridiculous. Either both of these statements are fine to use or neither of them are.

This discussion was concluded long ago, but every few months a new one of these threads pops up bringing up the exact same points I already addressed. I'm not going to eternally defend these stats over and over. If people want to change it that's fine.
 
To be honest, I'm not 100% sold on his statement for Boros and Garou either. I'd prefer to see how Garou is handled in the manga later on, but from the webcomic I never thought any of his feats were even close to being on Boros' level (especially considering some things like the Moon kick never even happened in the webcomic).
 
I want to point out a problem in that equivalency: Unlike Mob, who doesn't exist on the setting Tatsumaki exists, Garou and Boros do exist on the same setting, so their cases aren't "the exact same thing", one is comparing 2 characters who exist on the same world/setting/continuity (Garou and Boros) while the other one is comparing 2 characters who can't even claimed to exist on the same world/setting/continuity (Mob and Tatsumaki).
 
One difference is that Boros Vs Garou was comparing two characters from the same verse. But just because two or more characters are from the same company doesn't mean they're truly knowledgeable about power-scaling. The idea that Doomguy is stronger than the strongest Elder Scrolls characters is as I mentioned, very arbitrary.
 
If the argument boils down on Garou scaling to Boros, that might be questioned as well.

This thread exists because someone tried the same for other verse because OPM and MP100 were doing it, so it should be fine, ignoring the possibility that it's not right at all.

On top of that Garou vs Boros has a plot background to rely on, not just uncertain WoG. Garou was the fated rival Boros was looking for, and I have read that he did it pretty well against Saitama during their final fight, comparing him to Boros.
 
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