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Greetings. So I recently watched a video on Gilgamesh vs Aizen.
In which I believe it was quite well explained why Gilgamesh should boast Immeasurable speed. Not just Gilgamesh but some (not all) other 2A and Higher characters as well.
Video link is here for evidence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hOi1HLCT0k (Skip to 4:15 in which Gil's Speed is mentioned)
I am going to elaborate on some of the main points covered:
1) Solomon's Arc in Fate Grand Order. Solomon's stated to have created a Conceptual Universe that's beyond and outside of Space and Time.
2) It's even stated to be outside of normal temporal axis.
3) Which also means that he's moving in non-linear time.
And all 3 feats combined means it's movement beyond linear time.
Allow me to display the vs wiki's own definition of Immeasurable speed:
Immeasurable (Movement beyond linear time. This is why the speed cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed. For further information, see note 5 below.)
But I'm not done just there. Next I read a respect thread on CCC Gilgamesh:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/foru...lgamesh-fateextra-ccc-respect-thread-1984736/
Below are some relevant bits I found:
The Moon Cell is an object in Earth's solar system that simply observes the Earth. Despite it being a relatively small object in the solar system, with it's reality warping powers, the Moon Cell can create a virtual reality marble way beyond the size of a multiverse within its domain, despite its small physical size in the real world.
The Moon Cell's Far Side is anywhere from 5-D (stated to be higher dimensional, meaning above 4-D) to 7-D (it's description and properties seem far more impressive than Avalon's). "There also exists the Far Side of the Moon (µ£êÒü«ÞúÅÕü┤, Tsuki no Uragawa?), an imaginary space known as the trash bin that is used for storing malicious information and imaginary numbers. Sealed off as "Not For Use" information, it is a higher dimension where the light within the photon crystals is jumbled. It is the "exterior of the world", and can be called the "Garden of the Fallen" built from imaginary numbers in contrast to the Near Side being a cell where the "light of heavenly fire" is imprisoned. Due to his power, Gilgamesh is not allowed to appear on the Near Side of the Moon, so he sleeps in the Far Side instead. Nothing else should be able to exist there because it is the territory of nil, and intelligent life forms should not be allowed or be able to exist there. It is not within normal time, allowing for a series of communications over eighteen days from Earth to take less than a microsecond within the timeframe of the Moon Cell."
This also brings into question why Gilgamesh doesn't have Higher Dimensional Existence listed on his Genesis Mythology Mystic Code/Original power section. But that's another revision post in itself.
As you can see, Gilgamesh in the world of Fate/Extra is so powerful that he exists in a higher dimensional void that is possibly above Avalon in his base form. And Avalon in itself is 6th Dimensional.
Gilgamesh's speed in Fate/Extra is almost always interpreted incorrectly by fans. Many people claim Gilgamesh is billions of times faster than light due to him being sent to the Horsehead Nebula and coming back instantly, however Gilgamesh's true speed is beyond the concept of space-time, here is why...
BB after becoming the Moon Cell is described by Rin as having a higher dimensional existence and perspective where she can view and handle the past, present, and future at once,
"Rin :: On the other hand, the laws of the recorded universe are different. The perception of the recorded universe is over many dimensions…think of it as a higher dimensional existence. From this higher dimension, the third dimension looks like a flat scroll. Er, if the three-dimensional world is a world drawn in a book, and then if you jumped inside the book and came out outside the book, something like that? And then you're able to look down on any point in your past, present, and future from when you were inside the book, as a record — that's the higher dimensional perspective. You get it? Under these circumstances, all time inside the book becomes equivalent. Since you can always turn to whatever time you want to. There's no past or future. It's the same as that. This is imaginary number space, a higher dimensional information space made from light. The far side of the moon is fundamentally operated according to the laws of the recorded universe, not the observed universe. We are foreign bodies…no, guests. Creatures of the the observed universe that have been thrown into the recorded universe. Whereas the Moon Cell's Core is a concurrent world simulator where all possibilities are calculated and the past, present, and future all exist at the same time. In other words, it belongs to the recorded universe. BB has become that Moon Cell. She's obtained a higher dimensional perspective. So — BB can handle the past and the future simultaneously."
Notice from the earlier descriptions of BB's abilities that before fusing with the Moon Cell, she placed herself in "unlimited time" so she could hack the Moon Cell. So we have base BB pre-Moon Cell already in unlimited time, and Moon Cell BB existing above it, so how can Gilgamesh keep pace with BB if he is only billions of times faster than light? Simple, he can't... Moon Cell BB stated that Genesis Mystic Code Gilgamesh is on her level, meaning that Gilgamesh exist beyond time just like Moon Cell BB (makes sense since he existed in the Far Side in base).
Moon Cell Hakuno also makes an interesting comment...
As for the Horsehead Nebula feat Kiara did to Gilgamesh, there are two possibilities... One, that the feat of him getting back from 1,500 light years was more than just distance, as Kiara threw Gilgamesh into conceptual space and into the Horsehead Nebula in one of the many universes in the Moon Cell (a universe was referred to as a mere sector of the Moon Cell, as shown earlier) in a different dimension from Angelica Cage (the realm where the Moon Cell's core is), and it shows a beam of light come across the screen and he is back instantly. People assume Kiara threw him from Earth to the Horsehead Nebula, making him MFTL, but they were in the higher dimensional Angelica Cage (nowhere near Earth or the universe in general in the Moon Cell), meaning Kiara threw him across dimensions into a random universe in the Moon Cell. Possibility number two is that Kiara threw Gilgamesh OUTSIDE of the Moon Cell's reality marble entirely into the real universe, and since the Moon Cell physically exist in our solar system, people use the standard billions of times faster than light calc, but think about it... Gilgamesh got thrown out of a beyond infinite multiversal in size, higher dimensional virtual reality marble into the real universe into the Horsehead Nebula, and came back into one of the deepest realms of the Moon Cell's reality marble in the blink of an eye; that requires way beyond MFTL speeds. Regardless, the fact he is stated to be on the same level as Moon Cell BB and kept pace with her proves he's faster than the concept of time itself.
So once again, Gilgamesh's speed should be at least be Immeasurable at max.
Though if he's faster than the concept of Time itself then according to the vs wiki's definition it may even be Irrelevant speed but since he's not 1A, I'll refrain from arguing towards it.
If there are any points where I am missing, do kindly elaborate. I'd like to know why despite having a Genesis Mythical Mystic Code section for Gilgamesh, the vs wiki puts him at Massively MFTL+ at best.
In which I believe it was quite well explained why Gilgamesh should boast Immeasurable speed. Not just Gilgamesh but some (not all) other 2A and Higher characters as well.
Video link is here for evidence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hOi1HLCT0k (Skip to 4:15 in which Gil's Speed is mentioned)
I am going to elaborate on some of the main points covered:
1) Solomon's Arc in Fate Grand Order. Solomon's stated to have created a Conceptual Universe that's beyond and outside of Space and Time.
2) It's even stated to be outside of normal temporal axis.
3) Which also means that he's moving in non-linear time.
And all 3 feats combined means it's movement beyond linear time.
Allow me to display the vs wiki's own definition of Immeasurable speed:
Immeasurable (Movement beyond linear time. This is why the speed cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed. For further information, see note 5 below.)
But I'm not done just there. Next I read a respect thread on CCC Gilgamesh:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/foru...lgamesh-fateextra-ccc-respect-thread-1984736/
Below are some relevant bits I found:
The Moon Cell is an object in Earth's solar system that simply observes the Earth. Despite it being a relatively small object in the solar system, with it's reality warping powers, the Moon Cell can create a virtual reality marble way beyond the size of a multiverse within its domain, despite its small physical size in the real world.
The Moon Cell's Far Side is anywhere from 5-D (stated to be higher dimensional, meaning above 4-D) to 7-D (it's description and properties seem far more impressive than Avalon's). "There also exists the Far Side of the Moon (µ£êÒü«ÞúÅÕü┤, Tsuki no Uragawa?), an imaginary space known as the trash bin that is used for storing malicious information and imaginary numbers. Sealed off as "Not For Use" information, it is a higher dimension where the light within the photon crystals is jumbled. It is the "exterior of the world", and can be called the "Garden of the Fallen" built from imaginary numbers in contrast to the Near Side being a cell where the "light of heavenly fire" is imprisoned. Due to his power, Gilgamesh is not allowed to appear on the Near Side of the Moon, so he sleeps in the Far Side instead. Nothing else should be able to exist there because it is the territory of nil, and intelligent life forms should not be allowed or be able to exist there. It is not within normal time, allowing for a series of communications over eighteen days from Earth to take less than a microsecond within the timeframe of the Moon Cell."
This also brings into question why Gilgamesh doesn't have Higher Dimensional Existence listed on his Genesis Mythology Mystic Code/Original power section. But that's another revision post in itself.
As you can see, Gilgamesh in the world of Fate/Extra is so powerful that he exists in a higher dimensional void that is possibly above Avalon in his base form. And Avalon in itself is 6th Dimensional.
Gilgamesh's speed in Fate/Extra is almost always interpreted incorrectly by fans. Many people claim Gilgamesh is billions of times faster than light due to him being sent to the Horsehead Nebula and coming back instantly, however Gilgamesh's true speed is beyond the concept of space-time, here is why...
BB after becoming the Moon Cell is described by Rin as having a higher dimensional existence and perspective where she can view and handle the past, present, and future at once,
"Rin :: On the other hand, the laws of the recorded universe are different. The perception of the recorded universe is over many dimensions…think of it as a higher dimensional existence. From this higher dimension, the third dimension looks like a flat scroll. Er, if the three-dimensional world is a world drawn in a book, and then if you jumped inside the book and came out outside the book, something like that? And then you're able to look down on any point in your past, present, and future from when you were inside the book, as a record — that's the higher dimensional perspective. You get it? Under these circumstances, all time inside the book becomes equivalent. Since you can always turn to whatever time you want to. There's no past or future. It's the same as that. This is imaginary number space, a higher dimensional information space made from light. The far side of the moon is fundamentally operated according to the laws of the recorded universe, not the observed universe. We are foreign bodies…no, guests. Creatures of the the observed universe that have been thrown into the recorded universe. Whereas the Moon Cell's Core is a concurrent world simulator where all possibilities are calculated and the past, present, and future all exist at the same time. In other words, it belongs to the recorded universe. BB has become that Moon Cell. She's obtained a higher dimensional perspective. So — BB can handle the past and the future simultaneously."
Notice from the earlier descriptions of BB's abilities that before fusing with the Moon Cell, she placed herself in "unlimited time" so she could hack the Moon Cell. So we have base BB pre-Moon Cell already in unlimited time, and Moon Cell BB existing above it, so how can Gilgamesh keep pace with BB if he is only billions of times faster than light? Simple, he can't... Moon Cell BB stated that Genesis Mystic Code Gilgamesh is on her level, meaning that Gilgamesh exist beyond time just like Moon Cell BB (makes sense since he existed in the Far Side in base).
Moon Cell Hakuno also makes an interesting comment...
As for the Horsehead Nebula feat Kiara did to Gilgamesh, there are two possibilities... One, that the feat of him getting back from 1,500 light years was more than just distance, as Kiara threw Gilgamesh into conceptual space and into the Horsehead Nebula in one of the many universes in the Moon Cell (a universe was referred to as a mere sector of the Moon Cell, as shown earlier) in a different dimension from Angelica Cage (the realm where the Moon Cell's core is), and it shows a beam of light come across the screen and he is back instantly. People assume Kiara threw him from Earth to the Horsehead Nebula, making him MFTL, but they were in the higher dimensional Angelica Cage (nowhere near Earth or the universe in general in the Moon Cell), meaning Kiara threw him across dimensions into a random universe in the Moon Cell. Possibility number two is that Kiara threw Gilgamesh OUTSIDE of the Moon Cell's reality marble entirely into the real universe, and since the Moon Cell physically exist in our solar system, people use the standard billions of times faster than light calc, but think about it... Gilgamesh got thrown out of a beyond infinite multiversal in size, higher dimensional virtual reality marble into the real universe into the Horsehead Nebula, and came back into one of the deepest realms of the Moon Cell's reality marble in the blink of an eye; that requires way beyond MFTL speeds. Regardless, the fact he is stated to be on the same level as Moon Cell BB and kept pace with her proves he's faster than the concept of time itself.
So once again, Gilgamesh's speed should be at least be Immeasurable at max.
Though if he's faster than the concept of Time itself then according to the vs wiki's definition it may even be Irrelevant speed but since he's not 1A, I'll refrain from arguing towards it.
If there are any points where I am missing, do kindly elaborate. I'd like to know why despite having a Genesis Mythical Mystic Code section for Gilgamesh, the vs wiki puts him at Massively MFTL+ at best.
