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Crimes Against Curvature

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The visual edition of this thread.

There are crimes (not really) being committed, generally by authors of Japanese comic fiction who tend to not draw to scale, or anything with large size properly.

Self explanatory and pretty brief. I see a lot of feats on the wiki where people are wrongly using curvature scaling even though they're well in Earth's atmosphere and large portions of the landscape are visible, as well as being around cloud level more often than not. The main culprit is height and dimensions. As height increases and you are still well within Earth's atmosphere, you're only witnessing the curvature of the horizon proportional to your height, not the curvature of the entire planet.

The threshold elevation for detecting curvature would seem to be somewhat less than 35,000 ft (10.67km) but not as low as 14,000 ft (4.267km). Photographically, curvature may be measurable as low as 20,000 (6.096km) ft. Though, its nothing as severe as seeing the curve of a sphere.

A lot of calculations use curvature scaling based on flawed artistic choices with mountains, building, forests etc. in detail in the background. This would mean Earth is the size of Pluto or its a planet of giants. Even at 12 kilometers, you can only notice a subtle curve in the horizon, but the same height in most manga are horribly exaggerated.

Of course, this doesn't just apply to celestial bodies, but giant objects that have high magnification on a partial image. For example, this scan being calculated like this, then the manga showing a much different shape when zoomed out.

Examples of bad curvature
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

More realistic curvature sources (still flawed though not nearly as much)
1 2 3 4 (The last one isn't good for finding height though)

Source
https://thulescientific.com/Lynch Curvature 2008.pdf

Conclusion
Improper use of curvature scaling jacks up results for no good reason and calculations that use them should be reevaluated.
 
I feel like this was brought up before. Not even in the bad way as in this was rejected but we were on board with this but t wasn't implemented. So you have my attention.
 
Yeah this is interesting
 
Isn't DontTalks argument that the limited FoV would make any and all curvature scaling from space shots of planets unusable?

From what I could understand, completing the curvature shown in a panel won't give you a circle thats >12,000 km of diameter which is what the calcs would suggest.
 
Politely calling the calc group members, along with DontTalkDT and Antoniofer, here seems best.
 
AguilaR101 said:
Isn't DontTalks argument that the limited FoV would make any and all curvature scaling from space shots of planets unusable?
From what I could understand, completing the curvature shown in a panel won't give you a circle thats >12,000 km of diameter which is what the calcs would suggest.
"So most calcs that angsize from the fully visible earth diameter are likely still more or less correct, but for cases in which one had to complete the circle per hand it looks less good already."

"If you take into account that one can only see a small bit of the upper part that curve (due to the Field of View) you can see how the horizon would appear only slightly curved, like we are used to if we see it from such heights.

So if all those things are correct like I explained them, we have the second reason why scaling by completing the circle makes no sense: The horizon line actually doesn't create a circle but an ellipse."

And then he makes a post on why scaling the background to the foreground is obviously flawed, like the Goku and Beerus picture I have posted.
 
Antvasima said:
Politely calling the calc group members, along with DontTalkDT and Antoniofer, here seems best.
I have posted on DontTalkDT's message wall and bumped it but he didn't pay this thread a visit.
 
@CC

Okay. Thanks.
 
I fully agree with this. Furthermore you cant even take measurements from the planet diameter even if the etire planet is visible
 
In which calculations instructions page should this be mentioned?
 
@CC

Okay. Thanks.
 
I think this is perfectly logical to use, and should probably be implemented as a proper rule soon.
 
I think that an alternate method such as angular size scaling would be best to measure these kind of feats with the standard assumption of a height/distance being that of where space starts, provided there aren't contradictions such as small objects still being discernable or things like mountains/buildings ending up unrealisitcally large because of it.
 
I'm not a calc group, but I was asked to comment, and I do agree that this seems to be a problematic issue. It'd either lead to incredibly tiny planets or gargantuan mountains and stuff.
 
I only read through this now, but I agree. Curvature like this usually happens because of artistic liberty, not because you are seeing a big enough part of the planet that it doesn't appear flat.
 
Main-qimg-9102a31590f62fc257ad11ff43cc7def
if this Examples of bad curvature
MaxreSSSsdefault



the how is this More realistic curvature ?
 
In the first you can still distinguish the individual mountains with little effort and also the lack of clouds anywhere. In the second you can barely tell if the land is even there through the abundance of clouds.

The point being made, as far as I understand it, is that in many calcs using the "curvature" of the planet, the terrain that would normally be nigh impossible to perceive with the naked from the supposed distance the curve implies, is easy to distinguish.
 
You know, I always wanted to make a post like this critiquing calcs of earth-scaling feats that involve art that doesn't have accurate curvature, and this makes that point far better than I could have.

I agree with disregarding the calculations until we have a more accurate solution for them.
 
The only calc I have similar to this also seems to be fine. Not that it matters much since it only works as a supporting feat.
 
Not a calc-group member but I 100% agree with this. We tend to be too lax with our standards for calcs when it comes to segregating what's legit and what's blatantly not-drawn-to-scale art or general artistic choices.
 
What if it's something like the earth being split apart? Calcs like that would still be fine right?
 
Sort of? If it's going down through the Earth it should work, although if it's propagating outwards it could just be covering the country/continent.
 
I don't see what Ugarik is trying to point out with that picture
 
@DMUA He's pointing out that the brownish pointed object is much bigger than it should be.
 
The only thing brown I see is an entire Continent
 
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