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Bill Cipher Downgrade

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I think we need to downgrade Bill Cipher from Low 2-C. Let's address his reasoning for being Low 2-C currently and talk about potential problems on him being Low 2-C period.

"Would remove the laws and restrictions of the universe."

This doesn't sound like a feat of attack potency whatsoever, more like a really vague statement that he might have Law Manipulation or something or that he is capable of doing so many incomprehensible things, common sense doesn't apply to the dimension. This is supported by the literal fact weirdness only exists because of Bill in Gravity Falls, as Stanford explained he was the source of it. It's just more of a statement to exaggerate what he's capable of if anything.

"Time Baby also claimed that Bill could destroy the very fabric of existence if his rip into the dimension continued"

The rip doesn't scale to his actual Attack Potency, this was already like this originally on the profile. The fact it's a rip that has to do this as well and that Bill can't destroy the universe by his lonesome would debunk him being Low 2-C.

"The 3rd Journal written by Stanford Pines stated that Bill is a threat to the wider multiverse."

This isn't proof of Low 2-C, he's just spreading chaos and his weirdness which is why he is seen as a threat to the wider multiverse. Nothing can really stop him from doing this as well, which would just make him massively superior to pretty much anyone else aside from Axolotl physically. There needs to be proof he'd even be destroying a universe one by one as his goal wasn't even to do that.

Some contradictions: Bill is only Low 2-C via a rip, his motivations aren't to even destroy the universe in a conventional sense, just to spread his weirdness, Bill has consistently lower showings than Universal+ as it's not supported, and the idea he is Universal+ is just way more wanking than to just use the obvious interpretations which are that he'd be lower.

Bill could probably scale to Time Baby who is getting 5-C right now or he could jump to 5-B because he was able to grow as big as the planet. He just isn't Low 2-C.

Agree: Paul Frank

Disagree:

Neutral:
 
The Wright Way said:
Remember when Bill beat Pre-Retcon Beyonder? Those were the days. Anyways, I'll wait for arguments.
Is that real? If so, please send me a link to that thread. I need a good laugh.
 
Just going off the statements in the OP, the first just seems to be good hax, second I do see the problem with and the third isn't direct evidence of low 2-C

Overall I think the OP makes good points but without knowing Bill Cipher myself I can't really approve or disapprove the revisions.
 
Do note that the rip itself dissappeared after Bill was erased, implying there is some connection with the two.

I'm neutral for now though, waiting for other arguments.
 
I actually agree with a further downgrade. Physically he should be "At least 5-B" from being superior to his friends.

The rip, yeah that's just a chain reaction. It's not Bill himself that would destroy the universe with his own power, opening the rip caused the Nightmare Realm to begin fusing with the dimension.
 
Don't we considering reality warping + range as AP?

Why are we treating the rip like it's some sort of special technique or ultimate attack, it's phrased as something he'd just do when he gets free from the weirdness bubble of GF.

I agree with the last statement given that Bill has dimensional travel though.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
Low 2-C with reality warping is a maybe, but his durability would still be downgraded regardless.
I thought this was a discussion on his AP, not his dura, but what in particular is wrong with the justifications on that?

Also, didn't Bill imply "liberation" typically destroys the dimension in question? Wouldn't he survive this process?
 
yea Bill destroyed the second dimension

Low 2-C Via reality warping, Ford stating that Bill would destroy reality, Bill looking down at reality itself, and maybe scaling from the portal, who has Low 2-C ap

Reminder that Ford has 30 years of traveling the multiverse and has met people like Oracle(who has great knowladge on Bill) and even Axolotl itself. So his statements are valid via is character alone

Elizhaa knows about Bill more than I do, so you can call them
 
The Wright Way said:
Wasn't this literally just made abd rejected a few weeks ago or sm I missing something?
Just 9 days ago: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2965458. Time Baby looks no longer High 3-A, this about the major change. The TIme Rip argument looks iffy since Bill's presence did it causally and passively. It seems like a weak argument to say his his Tier doesn't scale when it is extremely casual in context.

The arguments were rejected there below.

I disagree with the downgrade. Here are the CRT where Bill was accepted as Low 2-C, potential 2-A and where I made my points.

Here the threads where just Bill just gain a Low 2-C rating only.

Ford stated Bill wanted to destroy the reality or in context -universe. Bill stated he wanted to liberated the universe like he did for his universe where he killed all of his loved ones. I am pretty sure Bill is not being arrogant on this point since destruction was his goal.
 
I agree with Elizhaa and I still stand Bill should get Possibly 2-A again, but that is derail. Not gonna comment further. That said, I might agree with a Durability Downgrade. Bill doesnt have any good feats for durability iirc. It should probably just be changed to Unknown.
 
Celestial Pegasus said:
Bill Cipher really has become synonymous with downgrade, next time i am gonna downgrade someone, i am gonna say i am gonna Cipher them.
Thanks, now I look like an idiot walking around a shopping centre laughing at my phone hahaha
 
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