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Bill's 2-A Downgrade II: Electric Boogaloo

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QrowBarr

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Continued from here: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2876223#490

Agree: 26 (ShadowWarrior1999, CinnabarManx421, ShakeResounding, Dragopentling, Antvasima, Eficiente, Js250476, Paul Frank, Psychomaster35, Jimboydejuan12, Arceus0x, DaBigP, RotofBots, PRIDEXEGO, Quantu, Saikou The Lewd King, Sir sun man, Tony di bugalu, 19hmun, Totallynotchewbacca, SomebodyData, MiamiVice43, Xerkser500, MYHERO, MagicCloud6, GabrielMaster721, FloweryAlex)

Disagree: 20 (ED INFINITUM, Tyranno223, GiverOfThePeace, Hykuu, Inverted Tempest, Kepekley23, Ultima Reality, The Arsenal1212, Dziga, The Wright Way, JooCipher, Christian Higdon, Mephistus, Iamunanimousinthat, Unoriginal Memes, Elizhaa, First Witch, LephyrTheRevanchist, SinsofMan, ZeedKrakenZilla)

Neutral: 7 (DarkDragonMedeus, DMB 1, CrimsonStarFallen, The Axiom of Virgo, Maverick Zero X, Andytremo, Steven Pogi Paitao)
 
I disagree or I'm neutral at best, also this should be a staff only thread with only some non-staff users allowed.
 
Did you miss all the unnecessary chaos and fallacies on the other thread?
 
Honestly, I'm fine with a Staff only thread as long as I can comment on it, Hykuu can comment on it, and ShadowWarrior can comment on it.
 
@Tempest Sure, I support the idea.

@Paul Frank Can't find it.
 
I think I should be put on the neutral side.

I said that within context of Bill's villain speech, and what he's shown to do, I don't think it's proper to assume he was going to physically destroy the multiverse. But the threat he proposed was a serious one, (the timebaby came up with a whole army ready to throw hands) so him being able to affect the entire multiverse via reality warping is extremely believable.

I would suggest, "2-A via Reality Warping"
 
@Iamunanimousinthat Bill's rip was going to destroy the universe Time Baby lives in, so of course he would take that threat seriously.

It wouldn't prove 2-A anything when the aforementioned destruction would be Low 2-C.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
@Iamunanimousinthat Bill's rip was going to destroy the universe Time Baby lives in, so of course he would take that threat seriously.
It wouldn't prove 2-A anything when the aforementioned destruction would be Low 2-C.
Click to expand...
We've already been over why this isn't the case on the original post. I think we honestly need to wait for SomebodyData, Kepleky, and Hykuu to come because they were of major importance to the discussion on the original thread instead of trying to continue at the moment.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
Yes, the multiverse statements come from the book. It would only mean Bill has 2-A range with dimensional travel.
Click to expand...
They made a difference between dimension and existence, we've been over this yet again. Time Baby's distinguishment plus the threat Bill corroborate one another.
 
Inverted Tempest said:
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
Yes, the multiverse statements come from the book. It would only mean Bill has 2-A range with dimensional travel.
Click to expand...
They made a difference between dimension and existence, we've been over this yet again. Time Baby's distinguishment plus the threat Bill corroborate one another.
Click to expand...
He's destroying the fabric (space-time) that contains existence within the dimension. You are using the highest possible interpretation when Time Baby only shows a projection of galaxies.
 
I still fail to see the logic behind him being a threat to the infinite multiverse,but only via destroying singular continua.That would make his threat non-existent.
 
Eficiente said:
I disagree or I'm neutral at best, also this should be a staff only thread with only some non-staff users allowed.
Click to expand...
Nah This Thread allowed only staff or non-staff even users gave you agree or disagree option.

Im today off now.
 
No offense, but im kinda finding it odd and funny that its being suggested to be staff only after so many agrees with the OP's post to make it look like we're shutting out other users.

We're on a 2nd thread now, it doesnt need to be staff only. Any derails should simply be deleted and thats that.
 
Most of the people FRA spammed the OP before any sort of actual defense came for it. I honestly don't think it's a good idea to let the conventional users decide it, only the ones that were actually contributing worthwhile discussion. And you're talking about derailing from literally most people who were talking about how bad Bill is as a 2-A. The safer route is just going Staff Only, because even when told to stop derailing, people continued to talk about Bill shouldn't be 2-A just because he would be bad at it.
 
A single user did that

That's not a reason to make it staff only

Making threads staff only makes it seem elitist, it's basically saying "Hey regular users we appreciate you using our site but you aren't smart or important enough to have any input on this content revision sorry" in addition there are not many staff who participate in staff only threads especially staff only threads for specific characters.

This closed circle off staff most of the time isn't knowledgeable about every character so there will usually end up one or two staff members who are and then wanting to be done with it other staff will just agree

In the case of this it will be Kal bringing back up the same points and data saying that the quote is to ambiguous to be used to tier bill. Then Cal will agree with Kal and the rest of the staff that participate will be a toss up
 
I honestly agree with Tempest. Bill is such a highly debated topic on here with most feats up more interpretation. At this point, the community has, for a while, yo-yoed on his tier so many times it seems we can never really get him right. It's probably best we leave it to the staff or High knowledgeable members now because clearly we can't sort this out on our own
 
I don't think it's indicating a notion that staff are smarter or better but I can see why one would think that. I just think it's safer to do so as it limits the conversation amongst people who we know can sort it out
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
@Iamunanimousinthat Bill's rip was going to destroy the universe Time Baby lives in, so of course he would take that threat seriously.

It wouldn't prove 2-A anything when the aforementioned destruction would be Low 2-C.
Click to expand...
Did you just literally concede to your entire premise, oh? So by threat he meant destruction of the universe, so why would they suddenly change the definition of threat for no reason?
 
@Hykuu No need to act smug. His rip being able to destroy a single universe doesn't in any way prove that he can perform a 2-A feat.
 
if his Rip was shown to destroy more than one universe at a time, then the 2-A credibility would look better
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
@Hykuu No need to act smug. His rip being able to destroy a single universe doesn't in any way prove that he can perform a 2-A feat.
Click to expand...
don't try calling me out on things like this when you have no idea what my intention is, please, implications are subjective mostly.

Again, terrible strawman, we are using the defintion of threat in that feat, not the feat itself.
 
The reason I absolitely hate the "threat to the greater multiverse" is because right there, it states that Fiddleford's own world would be absolutely saafe, and that sixfingers could live his days there, and not die. All of reality being destroyed makes no sense with that, does it?
 
or because there would still be a infinite amount of other universes threatened if we exclude one, or that there a dozen ways to trick bill/hide a specific space from him.
 
What? That is absolutely unfounded.

He states that the universe is not threatened by Bill, period, so they don't have to actively do anything.

If that one isn't threatened, it is far more plausable to simply assume that here, in context, it refers to Bill rampaging through worlds. Because statements like "hurricanes are a threat to costal comunities" doesn't mean the hurrican will destroy each and every one of them.

And,no, him saying the wider multiverse is not to emphasise thatinfinite of them will be destroyed, but that compared to a single universe, Bill will cause far more problems.

So, once again, it comes down to interpretation. Except tgere is no kultiverse destruction statement and we kniw for a fact that some universes will be unafected. There is abdolutely nothing that makes parallel fiddlefords world special, so Occam's Razor, I say that it's more fair that Bill won't threaten all of reality by destroying it, but by desteoying universes for all of eternity.
 
nvm

"

What? That is absolutely unfounded.

He states that the universe is not threatened by Bill, period, so they don't have to actively do anything.

If that one isn't threatened, it is far more plausable to simply assume that here, in context, it refers to Bill rampaging through worlds. Because statements like "hurricanes are a threat to costal comunities" doesn't mean the hurrican will destroy each and every one of them."

refer to this

"or because there would still be a infinite amount of other universes threatened if we exclude one, or that there a dozen ways to trick bill/hide a specific space from him."

for the hurricane analogy, refer to the time baby threat defining argument and kep's points.

I never even brought that up but sure, not sure why this gish gallop is included, just the term multiverse is fine.

that's not how Occam's razor works, it works on the setting that you should take a statement at face value unless there's definitive proof showing otherwise, which you clearly missed the point of, unless we are going to have to revise every comic profile because the term threat wasn't specified, right?
 
you literally refuted the comment the moment I posted that, feelsbadman.

wdym? infinity doesn't work like that, even if you argue that there are infinite parallel dimensions hiding from bill, there would still be a infinite amount open to him, also if it wasn't the only exception he would be called a threat to the MULTIverse because?
 
No dude. You need to first prove that Bill destroys infinite dimensions to begin with. The only statement you use to justify this litirally claims that he doesn't destroy every universe, so you have no leg to stand on that he desteoys every single dimension, and by extention no proof that he destroys infinite of them.
 
FloweryAlex is right again.

Bill being a threat to the multiverse is just a general statement meaning that Bill can pick any universe he wants to mess around with, not that he can actually destroy it.
 
I'm pretty sure that's circular reasoning

>bill doesn't threaten every dimension because there is a single dimension stated to be out of his power

>therfore he doesn't threaten every dimension

This isn't even circular reasoning actually, just flawed logic, Again, You are trying to use one exception out of infintiy in order to justify your argument, this is again, a combination of a appeal to probability and a hasty generalization. The initial argument is that he would destroy infinite universes as the multiverse is infinite, the term every dimension wouldn't make sense again, as you're trying to compare a grain of sand to a infinite shore and trying to say that everything should follow that same logic.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
FloweryAlex is right again.
Bill being a threat to the multiverse is just a general statement meaning that Bill can pick any universe he wants to mess around with, not that he can actually destroy it.
Click to expand...
So you flat out contradict his argument by saying that he can pick ANY universe even though you agree with it? I see
 
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