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Base Shirou Shouldn't Exist

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To clarify, I essentially want to propose the removal of Emiya Shirou's base key. The 9-C one, to be clear.

Shirou's entire justification for being 9-C is due to his Reinforcement buffing himself and mundane objects to a level where he can somewhat defend himself against a non-serious Cu Chulainn. The problem with this is, a huge factor in Shirou's reinforcement spell early on is the sheer impracticality of it.

His utter lack of skill makes the spell effectively chance-based, and the success rate is abysmal. For an example, on Day 9 of the Fate route, Shirou was given forty lamps to reinforce. After an hour, he managed twenty, half of them having broken, and the other half showing no change at all. We also learnt from Shirou's thoughts that he only expected to succeed in reinforcing two at most out of the forty he was given. His success in his encounter with Lancer was purely luck working out for him. Without Reinforcement, Shirou is 10-A.

Not to mention that in his base key, he has no standard equipment, no reliable "special abilities", and no skill in any forms of combat except maybe archery. Everything he has that can be used in combat reliably is from his other keys, attained after he's gotten training from Saber and Rin in Fate, bled-over experience from Archer in UBW, or flat-out having Archer's skills to draw upon via the GARm in HF.

I see little reason to keep his Base key at all. Other 9-Cs, or even 10-As have some form of ability or weaponry and/or skill. Shirou has none of that, being effectively a physically fit high-schooler that relies on his abysmal luck to even stand a chance against most others in his tier.
 
Yeah I agree

As for the indexing site argument that will inevitably come up there isn't really anything to index he's just a high schooler that's in good shape
 
Agreed as well. Generally whenever I think Shirou DOES get in a discussion, it's usually him in one of three routes in FSN. Never his Base Key and even without mentioning the routes, Shirou's got next to nothing leading for him here leading up to his (albeit one-sided) encounter with a non-serious Lancer.

Yeah the argument for indexing will come up but I think him having Base removed and just having his other keys from the routes look fine to me.
 
I feel neutral on this so I might as well play devil's advocate for a bit.

Would we want to consider saying 10-A, potentially 9-C with Reinforcement, but note that such a thing is unlikely to work in his weaknesses section? As mentioned, this would just be for indexing's sake.
 
Jordanbairdcreaturemaster97 said:
I feel neutral on this so I might as well play devil's advocate for a bit.
Would we want to consider saying 10-A, potentially 9-C with Reinforcement, but note that such a thing is unlikely to work in his weaknesses section? As mentioned, this would just be for indexing's sake.
There's really no point to it, though. Even if we just downgraded him to 10-A, his "potentially 9-C" clause would be effectively pointless because he'd either need hours of prep just to find and successfully reinforce a makeshift weapon, or rush his reinforcement and further lower his success rate. If we persisted with this, he'd just become one of the weakest 10-As on the site.

Additionally, there's no real reason for him to even have his Base form listed at all. He's really only "route-less" for so little time. It's like making a key for Kaneki Ke from before he was turned into a half-Ghoul.
 
Hard to say from memory. The best I could say is, something like UBW Shirou? He can go as far as using Rho Aias with the 4 petals and doesn't have anything like Archer's arm, but I don't remember a lot.
 
Iirc, HF Shirou with EMIYA's arm is the closest he ever got to being at servant level. Assuming servant level meant EMIYA's stats, then UBW Shirou would maybe be scraping E rank strength. All assumption though.
 
UBW Shirou scraping E rank strength should be with his best Reinforcement, if even that. At base, he would still be 9-B at best.

Kind of a moot point, though, since UBW Shirou is skilled enough in tracing to copy the original wielder's physical stats, which automatically makes him Servant level.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
I already know how powerful EMIYA is, I would like to know about Emiya
It's hard to say, because HA Shirou isn't really Shirou, technically speaking.

At the very least he's about as strong as UBW Shirou. He consistently succeeds during his nightly reinforcement practice, and he can keep up with one of Avenger's shades in close combat, so consistently at 9-B to 9-A.
 
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