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Riordanverse Tier 6 Revisions

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RegisNex1232

RegisNex1232

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https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2179636

So in this thread meant to downgrade sone of the demigods from 6-C, we ran into the problem pointed out that the Tier 6 feat of Annabeth lifting the sky here may not have been calculated properly and that on the whole, it would be an outlier to the vast majority of the Tier 7/8 feats they have.

This thread is here to determine fully if the sky feat is valid or not and the new tiers of the characters who scale to it.
 
My opinion on this remains unchanged. The height however is probably slightly inflated, but that can be fixed.

Btw Jason has a 6-C storm feat I recently calculated and was accepted.
 
Some qoutes that kinda explain what I think

It is ridiculous when you realize they're routinely killed or take damage from regular monsters. Just because they kill said monsters easily through skill, speed, or use of powers doesn't invalidate that every single monster has the potential to kill a Demigod if they slip up.

Which becomes apparent when you realize there are virtually no physical showings of this level- only power-related feats that don't scale to physical strength.


Not really? Poseidon in Titan's Curse makes a big deal of how being a true hero/having the courage, heart and will to willingly take the burden is what helps lift the sky. Like he says that there are monsters who can lift it but wouldn't even if you forced them too and Luke is a special case due to the Curse of Achilles.


I had some question, so I'll just copypast them here:

BTW, how come Annatbeth's is a Dura feat instead of a lifting strenght one? She took the burden before the sky could properly fall, and that should only be lifting strenght."

"Also, doesn't the calc assume that Luke was standing? He wasn't."
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
My opinion on this remains unchanged. The height however is probably slightly inflated, but that can be fixed.
Btw Jason has a 6-C storm feat I recently calculated and was accepted.
Click to expand...
Linking it would help, and for the first, you have to justify it.

Saying "I disagree" means nothing.


My own reasoning was given in the Annabeth vs All Might

Ricsi-viragosi said:
The main thing is it being an outlier. The second is that it's plain said that she only survived because of her spirit and stuff, and that not even Percy, who is stronger in all ways, should be able to survive it. The third problem was that it assumes the sky fell, but there was a part in the vision where it is plain said that Luke was plastered to the ground due to the sky. The latter of the tree is due to it being a vision that is unclear about what is actually going on.
Click to expand...
 
Ok, firstly you're only saying part of what Poseidon said. He mentioned both strength and courage. You said it yourself, monsters ca lift it, but they won't because they don't have the will. To lift the Sky is to have both strength and will. And Luke did not have the Curse of Achilles yet in the Titan's Curse.

Said regular monsters also do not have antifeats that they are extremely weak or whatever you are thinking.

It is a lifting strength + durability feat. The book describes the Sky is literally falling. And yes, Luke wasn't standing, but the calc can be recalculated.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
text
Click to expand...
You posted this before I posted my other post, so I did explain.

Visions are supposed to be actually happening. And I don't recall that Luke was "plastered" so it would be helpful if you quoted the book. In order to take the Sky from Luke, Annabeth did have to get lower than Luke's position as well.

Anyway here's the storm feat.
 
No, Artemis also went out of her way to say that it was due to Annabeth's spirit that she didn't plain die.

You mean like the hydra being killed by a warship?

No it cannot. You cannot make any possible way to say that the sky fell when it was already so low that Luke was on the ground. There is no possible way for it to fall lower, and it didn't say it was the sky itself, because it was a vision that was unprecise about itself.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
You posted this before I posted my other post, so I did explain.

Visions are supposed to be actually happening. And I don't recall that Luke was "plastered" so it would be helpful if you quoted the book. In order to take the Sky from Luke, Annabeth did have to get lower than Luke's position as well.

Anyway here's the storm feat.
Click to expand...
Visons are happening, yeah. Means nothing when they aren't clear. Percy never said it was the sky falling. For all you know it might have been luke dying and everything in a mile about to get flattened as Atlas said would happen if it wasn't held up.
 
Poseidon said that it takes "strength, courage, and will" to hold the sky. Luke was also able to hold the Sky too. Annabeth's spirit let her hold the Sky for an extended period of time without giving gup.

It would be helpful if you linked where did the vision said that Luke was plastered to the floor. You have been saying that for ages without quoting the book while I quoted the part the Sky fell on her.
 
Why is that storm assumed to be 20km? That's only for storms that stretch to the horizon.
 
My problem with the sky feat aside, the other similar level feats involve powers and not brute force or strength. You can't really scale Frank to Hazel manipulating metals or Leo to Frank's transformations and so on. The only common feats should be stuff like swordplay and melee and no one is so far away from one another that they can't hold their own.
 
Yeah, that's the problem. It makes no sense that she can. And Artemis said that it was her spirit that allowed her to do it, and that Percy would die if he tried. Are you saying Annabeth is stronger than Peercy?

I'll do so in a moment.
 
I thought the new revisions said something like even small storms are 20 km?

The new revisions are that storms which visibly stretch to the horizon are assumed to be at least 20km.
 
Percy didn't die trying, and Ananbeth's spirit let her hold the Sky for an extended period of time, but she still tanked the Sky falling on her at the first point.
 
RegisNex1232 said:
My problem with the sky feat aside, the other similar level feats involve powers and not brute force or strength. You can't really scale Frank to Hazel manipulating metals or Leo to Frank's transformations and so on. The only common feats should be stuff like swordplay and melee and no one is so far away from one another that they can't hold their own.
Click to expand...
This I can agree with. However, when I was originally carrying out the 6-C revisions, Antvasima instructed me to upgrade their striking strengths too.
 
I thought the new revisions said something like even small storms are 20 km?

The new revisions are that storms which visibly stretch to the horizon are assumed to be at least 20km.

Hmmn IIRC someone said something like "even small storms are 20 km".

Anyway I'm supposed to be studying for my mid-terms now, will read the storm part of the Blood of Olympus again if I have time.
 
That shouldn't have happened. Someone should have told Ant that powers don't scale to physical stats unless specified. Otherwise you get insane scaling where everyone can be 6-C.
 
Using the sky feat everyone does scale, unless you believe Annabeth can tank attacks tiers above her own.
 
She scrambled over a section of broken wall and came to the crest of the hill. She gasped. There was Luke. And he was in pain. He was crumpled on the rocky ground, trying to rise. The blackness seemed to be thicker around him, fog swirling hungrily. His clothes were in tatters and his face was scratched and drenched with sweat, "Annabeth!" he called. "Help me! Please!"

Again, the fact that it shows the sky as rocks doesn't help your case with the whole sky falling on them, unless you think that pieces and chunks of it were falling at a time.

The fact that a few lines after that they say that she should have been crushed doesn't help either.
 
It's very hard to to accept 6-C Annabeth off one feat which also involves spiritual strength when the rest of the series doesn't portray her as anything close to a physical peer of Percy or Jason.
 
So should the characters be downgraded and the storm feat listed as a separate non-physical power then?

In any case, you can check the Riordanverse page for people to ask to comment here.
 
I really think we should wait until we get calcs and solid ratings to replace the old ones before we move forth with downgrade threads

Mostly the latter, since the former's kinda covered enough.

I will agree, the sky is a bit of a gigantic outlier considering the physically weakest demigod did it while percy, the physically strongest, got nearly killed by a 7-B Volcanic explosion.

Not to mention, modern weapons are fully capable of killing monsters that pose a threat to these guys.
 
The modern weapons did have celestial bronze rounds as far as I remember, but there was that one ww2 ship that one-shot the hydra.
 
oh yeah

But that's mostly because they phased through everything that wasn't celestial bronze, right? Or was it just celestial bronze phases through normal people?
 
I'm sure bronze phases, but I think they phase through normal weapons as well. I'll look into it.

Logically, the guns shouldn't be able to fire that much stronger least they destroy themsleves, but since when did authors care about that?
 
Guns are the most powerful weapon in fiction after all

Regardless though, point is, 6-C is an outlier, or just something that should scale to Top tier Demigods only, and, later in the books at that.

Oh yeah, another major thing is the organization of keys, now that we have a clear scale of power increases unlike before

I'd help but I don't exactly have access to all the books, and I've fallen out of touch with the recent Magnus Chase and Apollo stuff, so
 
Oh, I found this. This also means that monsters are not immune to at least the backlash weapons, jkust that they don't get wounded.

"I thought the thing in [Sally's] hands was an umbrella until she cranked the pump and the shotgun blast blew the giant twenty feet backward, right into Nico's sword."

~page 315, The Last Olympia


Then again, I'm not sure if the whole hydra thing means that a weapon strong enough to blast them to pieces would be effective.
 
Wasn't it mentioned in one of the earlier books that CB dura negs or just kills most monsters with a touch or something? That could explain why CB bullets kill the monsters so easily.
 
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