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Riordanverse demigods revision (Burning Maze spoilers)

Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

VS Battles
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Yup, it's another Riordanverse revision.

Warning: Spoilers for the Burning Maze (it's already 5 months but many people haven't read it yet)

Last time when I attempted a revision, no one had read the Burning Maze yet, hopefully more people read it now. So, since no one was willing to give input, Antvasima asked me to edit the pages myself. I placed Piper and High 7-A (1 tier below the other members of the Seven), as well as Meg and Lityerses, but now I am not very satisfied with this rating.

Why Piper (and maybe Leo) should not scale to 6-C
The 6-C feat comes from Annabeth Chase having the sky fall on her (Percy's 6-C feat no longer counts after the lifting strength revision). Children of the Big Three are obviously stronger than Annabeth, and Luke stomped a water-amped Percy, and Thalia beat Luke.

Frank Zhang was said to be the physically strongest among the Seven, and overpowered a minor god + fought a giant. He should scale too. Hazel destroyed a small island and also fought giants.

I am uncertain whether Leo Valdez should scale to 6-C. He did fight against giants though. He only defeated Khione by countering her snow with fire.

I am pretty sure Piper should not scale to 6-C. She said it herself that she only defeated some Giants because she was small and quick, and she was holding a dagger. IIRC she only harmed giants and minor gods with her celestial bronze dagger, and celestial bronze negates durability of supernatural beings (at least that's what the profiles say). In the Burning Maze, she was also implied throughout the book to be weaker than Meg, who was easily outmatched by Lityerses. Lityerses was defeated by Jason, but that's probably just due to their different fighting styles.

Ratings for Piper, Meg and Lityerses
I placed them at High 7-A last time due to lack of better options. If anyone knows a calcable feat for Piper or Meg, please post in below. I would appreciate help placing them at appropriate tiers.

Meg did effortlessly kill two pandai by thrusting 2 Imperial Gold blades, and those pandai stomped Jason off-screen. Jason also said he "barely blocked" Lityerses' attacks, so they obviously scale to High Hypersonic+. What attack potency to put them at, I'm not sure.
 
As far as the above examples, why would they be at High 7-A? I don't really remember anything on that level. I'm not too happy with how the scaling works and Annabeth's feat in particular, but if that's derailing then you can ignore it.
 
Yes, I agree with you. I am not satisfied with High 7-A. That's why I'm making a revision asking for help what rating to put them at.
 
As far as fighting giants, I can't remember them matching up that well physically without the help of gods/other demigods. You'll see stuff like Percy vs Polybotes or Jason vs Enceladus but not for Piper or Leo. And another thing that I feel is problematic is that disarming people through skill is considered valid for scaling (correct me if I am wrong on this).

At best, they should be somewhere around 8-B/A, higher with some abilities like the fire/plants/etc.
 
For me, I can't remember if Leo or Piper (which would extend to Meg and Lit) ever showed that they could contend with Giants like Percy or Jason, so that is why I don't think they really should be in the same ballpark physically. That then feeds into 'If they were that strong, why don't we see it more often?' By all rights someone like Jason should be overpowering people like Lit, but that is not the case.

It's a mess honestly and I would not mind more people to weigh in.
 
Yeah, the big 3 demigod feats (some of which I don't feel really should scale to their physical stats) are way above most showings, so there's a lot of confusion going on.
 
RegisNex1232 said:
Yeah, the big 3 demigod feats (some of which I don't feel really should scale to their physical stats) are way above most showings, so there's a lot of confusion going on.
Click to expand...
Agreed, the various feats of magic and will they have shouldn't be applicable to their physical stats. Percy after causing a volcanic eruption was still getting floored by large creatures just like normal and could still be KO'd by a properly aimed horse kick.

Even some of their physical feats like lifting the sky tend to have references to "spirit" in the passages and aren't backed by notable differences in their ability to fight enemies.

That's aside from the hypersonic stuff which doesn't even begin to make sense in the verse.
 
I dunno what other feats to use honestly. High 7-A via backscaling doesn't make much sense either.

We may have to resort to unknown, but then again, I'm not really keeping up with Riordan after Book 2 of Magnus Chase. Maybe I should get back into it.
 
^ Correct. Physically, Annabeth is one of the weakest characters. She is just skillful and smart enough to keep up with the other
 
Yeah. It's also stated that she didn't have the powers the rest of the demigods had, but she had a very good mind in the fourth book of the Heroes of Olympus.

Can someone like post on Twitter how this is the case yet Annabeth held up the sky like a swole motherhecker, I want to see Riordan's Reaction

Okay legit please don't
 
The sky feat has always been linked to a hero's spirit and willpower (save Luke who had the CoA), which is why I am surprised that it is used as a strength feat. What about the others?
 
The real cal howard said:
I mean, didn't Percy outright say in the second Magnus Chase book that Annabeth isn't special physically and her mind is what makes her impressive? Pretty sure his exact words (paraphrasing) are that she had no powers, but you get the point.
Click to expand...
Would that mean all demigods are 6-C?
 
Rocker1189 said:
That seems ridiculous....
Click to expand...
It is ridiculous when you realize they're routinely killed or take damage from regular monsters. Just because they kill said monsters easily through skill, speed, or use of powers doesn't invalidate that every single monster has the potential to kill a Demigod if they slip up.

Which becomes apparent when you realize there are virtually no physical showings of this level- only power-related feats that don't scale to physical strength.
 
Also, I doubt Annabeth is just a "regular demigod". Athena is supposed to be the goddess of battle strategy too, plus Annabeth was trained in combat, she's probably slightly, if not extremely, stronger than other demigods. I think it is also said that Ares and Athena are the strongest cabins at Camp Half-Blood. She held up the sky and briefly held Kronos to a standstill with her knife.

I prefer if Annabeth and the ones stronger than her stay at 6-C while we try to find a rating for the others.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Monsters should scale to 6-C too if we're going to upgrade everyone.

Holding the sky is definitely a physical feat.
Click to expand...
Not really? Poseidon in Titan's Curse makes a big deal of how being a true hero/having the courage, heart and will to willingly take the burden is what helps lift the sky. Like he says that there are monsters who can lift it but wouldn't even if you forced them too and Luke is a special case due to the Curse of Achilles.
 
Luke only had the Curse of Achilles after the third book.

And you said it yourself: Monster's could lift it, they just wouldn't. I think he means if you are strong enough you can lift it, it's just whether you have the will to take it.
 
He doesn't mention strength anywhere, and if it had to do with strength everyone would scale to Artemis. The curse of the sky has to do with whether you want to lift it or not, not how strong you are. It's about your choice, since the curse only affects Titans.

https://imgur.com/a/UjfbiGT
 
Her only noted quality is her brain. Apart from that she's as strong as Travis Stoll or Katie Gardner, both of whom are trained in combat like everyone at CHB, which is not that much compared to one man armies like Percy or Jason. Kronos at that point was struggling with Luke, and she was also getting outmatched by a bunch of demigods and monsters in battles prior to the final fight on Mt Olympus. This is just making up stuff now.
 
RegisNex1232 said:
He doesn't mention strength anywhere, and if it had to do with strength everyone would scale to Artemis. The curse of the sky has to do with whether you want to lift it or not, not how strong you are. It's about your choice, since the curse only affects Titans.

https://imgur.com/a/UjfbiGT
Click to expand...
"Only a hero, someone with strength, [...]"
 
RegisNex1232 said:
Her only noted quality is her brain. Apart from that she's as strong as Travis Stoll or Katie Gardner, both of whom are trained in combat like everyone at CHB, which is not that much compared to one man armies like Percy or Jason. Kronos at that point was struggling with Luke, and she was also getting outmatched by a bunch of demigods and monsters in battles prior to the final fight on Mt Olympus. This is just making up stuff now.
Click to expand...
Athena and Ares demigods are obviously better fighters in general.

Annabeth is not as strong as Jason or Percy but I am pretty sure she's at least slightly stronger than the average demigod.
 
What you suggest would mean that mortals like Paul Blofis have 6-C strength, simply because Annabeth is not an exceptionally strong demigod despite your headcanon, and as she isn't shown to be that much stronger than most demigods and monsters, one of whom got killed by Paul in the Last Olympian, that means that mortals have 6-C strength. Not to mention how even Artemis talks about how spirit is more important than strength when lifting the sky.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Athena and Ares demigods are obviously better fighters in general.

Annabeth is not as strong as Jason or Percy but I am pretty sure she's at least slightly stronger than the average demigod.
Click to expand...
Athena demigods are good at planning and mental strats plus inventing- the books hammer this over your head repeatedly. You don't get to randomly say "Athena demigods are better fighters" when that's not attested at all and it's repeatedly stated and shown their specialty is being smart.

The long and short of it is the Demigods show street-tier feats extremely often and aside from a comparatively few instances this is very consistent with the verse and works quite well with the feats we have.
 
RegisNex1232 said:
What you suggest would mean that mortals like Paul Blofis have 6-C strength, simply because Annabeth is not an exceptionally strong demigod despite your headcanon, and as she isn't shown to be that much stronger than most demigods and monsters, one of whom got killed by Paul in the Last Olympian, that means that mortals have 6-C strength. Not to mention how even Artemis talks about how spirit is more important than strength when lifting the sky.
Click to expand...
Paul killing a monster is definitely PIS (idk when he did so though)

- Poseidon outright says that strength is needed

- Some monsters "can" lift the Sky, but they "won't lift the sky"

Will is more important than strength because you won't take the Sky even if you have enough strength.

Annabeth is not an exceptionally strong demigod but she is at least slightly stronger than most. She is a regular demigod but she is more skilled in combat. An expert martial artist is definitely a tier or two stronger than me.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Also based on your headcanon Paul Blofis could hold up the Sky if he wanted to.
Click to expand...
This is based on your headcano, not mine. It's consistently shown throughout the series that apart from Percy/Jason, none of the other demigods have any impressive strength feats and that they aren't strong enough to overpower monsters.

Annabeth is no exception, she shows nothing else that is better than her peers at CHB/CJ, is consistently wounded and injured by demigods and monsters without any impressive feats.

Which means that if you take the sky feat as valid, along with Paul duelling a dracaenae in the Last Olympian and killing it with some swordplay learnt during college when he was studying Shakespeare, that would lead to Paul = Monster = Demigod = Annabeth (= Artemis).

This would lead to the ridiculous idea that Paul can lift cars with a pinkie, as despite your insistence she isn't exceptional in terms of strength.
 
I agree with Regis here, throughout my entirre reading of the Percy Jackson series, I never got the idea that the demigod children were exceptionally powerful physically.
 
Paul killing a monster is PIS (I don't remember when he did that btw).

You said lifting the Sky depends on will and nothing on strength, so according to your logic Paul could lift the sky if he wanted to.
 
Paul killed a monster in the Last Olympian Chapter 18 when the Underworld gods came to fight Kronos. The same chapter where Percy's mom uses a shotgun to blow back a giant. You'll have to prove that it's PIS though.

As far as the sky feat is concerned, strength isn't a real factor compared to one's courage and spirit, which is what both Poseidon and Artemis emphasize about it. If it relied on strength alone then everyone (and Paul) would scale to Artemis.
 
As it is, the sky feat is too much of an outlier at best, since Annabeth is never presented as one of the physically strongest characters and doesn't overpower monsters on a regular basis.
 
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