- 2,743
- 850
Honestly this downgrade should have happened a long time ago. Photoshop floweys stats are filled with so many misconceptions that need to be covered.
Omega flowey destroyed multiple timelines by destroying frisks save files
Omega flowey destroying timelines is nothing more than destroying frisks access to those timelines. Save files are frisk/the players way of getting to different timelines. They do not physically encompass those timelines nor do the timelines get erased when the save files are destroyed. Saying destroying save files = destroying timelines is like saying that destroying a portal to another universe means destroying the universe itself.
There is plenty of more reason show it to be speculation, as once omega flowey is defeated and has lost control of the human souls, the underground is perfectly in tact and you still get an ending and even reload back to the judgement hall. Flowey would have no reason to suddenly recreate those timelines offscreen right after he has been beaten, nor would it be logically be possible since he is completely powerless with no control of the souls. Meaning that flowey in photoshop form was simply stopping frisk from reaching those timelines. Characters such as asgore who are not 4D are also able to destroy and remove certain gameplay mechanics which only return once they are defeated, just like with flowey. And to add on to that. Chara destroying the game actually results in all timelines being completely erased with frisk and the player being unable to do anything, no way to restore the game or erased save files other than chara performing a true reset. Meanwhile omega flowey has not shown to be able to perform a reset like chara nor put an end to the players game or progress.
So in other words, flowey is just cutting off frisks access to those timelines and not destroying them.
Flowey is superior to chara
The reasoning for this is mainly this statement. There are proplems with this. Chara at this point does not have a form capable of destroying timelines. Chara in the genocide route gets more powerful as the player kills people and starts to gain control of frisk until she is capable of taking control of the games reality as shown here. In the other routes chara was almost powerless with her only ability being narrating and calling to asriel. Chara in genocide however is stated in that scene to be getting stronger under the players influence.
Flowey has never changed his views on him becoming superior to chara throughout the genocide route and comments on chara destroying the world
For starters, chara never showcases timeline destroying power until the very end of the genocide route where flowey is dead. On top of that flowey never even compares their levels of power again. Secondly here He only refers to destroying everything "in this world" and "in these memories". Not the world/game itself. Destroying everything in it is simply reference to killing everybody in the underground and likely going to the surface (using the souls) to kill humans as well.
Assuming floweys statement true
Even if we assume floweys statement to be true, it is still not enough evidence to suggest him to be above chara. This is shown by the fact that immediately after absorbing the souls, before fighting frisk he states that he needs one more to "become a god". Which is a direct reference to asriel who only in that fight was talking about purging timelines, not caring about destroying the world (which implies he wanted to as a flower, but clearly never did or could) and resetting everything. Meaning that his end goal was to become asriel dreemurr and reset/destroy everything. This means that at best, asriel is the one who is superior to chara.
Omega flowey is superior because of his lv 9999 stats
This is likely just flowey tampering with the gameplay mechanics since that is what he does through most of the fight and there is no evidence to suggest those being his true stats. But regardless, lv =/= strength. In undertale a level 15 frisk in genocide does way more damage to enemies than a level 20 frisk in a neutral run. How does this make sense? If we go by charas statements, she states that the players power and determination is what awakened her from death and that the players guidance gave her that mindset and power. As we all know, love stands for level of violence and monsters are weak to humans with the intent to kill (this doesn't make them below average human before anyone suggests im saying that). The reason frisk does more damage when he has higher lv is simply because he has a greater intent to kill. On a genocide route, due to the fact that the players intent is to kill people and show no mercy, that influences chara and makes her desire to kill even greater, and on top of that, starts to reveal more of her power throughout the route. The players determination and power is what allowed chara to become that powerful. On neutral however, chara is not being turned into a completely bloodlusted maniac. And therefore isn't able to take power of determination from the player and achieve her full power nor inflict higher levels of damage on enemies. As for omega flowey, he is a completely bloodlusted maniac and would naturally have a higher level of violence. Meaning that someone having a higher lv does not immediately make them stronger. On top of that, if we went by omega floweys stats and scaled him to other characters then it could also downgrade him since his stats are finite and could lower characters. If anything scaling by a characters lv would be massively inconsistent due to the fact that someone with a higher lv can do more damage than someone with a lower lv. What would actually make more sense is to scale characters by actual attack and defence since someone with a higher attack and defence will always be stronger than someone with a lower attack and defence and relies on power and not attitude. I should also mention that when omega floweys defence drops to zero, a fully determined frisk doesnt one shot him despite having a lower defence and finite hp.
On top of that chara at the end game has no stats or a specific level. Even though chara is controlling end game frisk and frisk is getting some amount of power from chara and the player, this has not shown at all to be her own full power. Note that a full power attack from an end game frisk does this much damage (also note that asgore didnt die right away from a full power attack from a supposed 4D being). Even less if you are lv 20 neutral route. Meanwhile an endgame chara does this much damage. On top of that. Chara in a souless pacifist run is able to appear as a physical entity like in genocide and ruin your game despite frisk still only being level 1. Meaning they do not directly share the same stats, noteably when chara is free from the players control. So there is a clear difference between someone who is lv 20 and a fully powered chara. There is nothing to even suggest that an end of geno frisk is comparable to chara in the first place apart from chara taking control of him (which doesn't make them comparable at all).
In short terms. lv does not equate to power nor can it be used for scaling. Determination is what makes you stronger (desire to kill if you are fighting monsters). Chara does not have lv 20 stats.
Chara has 99 attack and 99 defence because of the real knife
Just because chara has the real knife and locket no matter what, that doesnt mean that is her attack and defence. If anything this would just add on to her attack and defence. If we went by this logic then anybody who could remove both items would reduce her at and def to 0 making her weaker than a froggit. Chara carries it due to it being her belongings. It doesnt indicate her having that statistic at all. Nor would it make either of these items multiverse busting weapons. This is like me saying that future trunks from dbz is only as powerful as his sword, or castlevania characters are as powerful as the weapons they wield.
Asriels status
Asriel in his fight has stated that he could destroy this world (same as what chara did) and was going to perform a true reset. Both chara and asriel should still have immeasurable speeds as chara could exist in a timeless void after the game is destroyed. Asriel should be able to perform this feat as well. However based on this revision, Asriel would not be infinitely superior to chara and would therefore be at least 2-C possibly 2-B.
Conclusion
Photoshop flowey does not destroy entire timelines and only cuts off access to them until defeated Photoshop flowey is not superior to chara
Statistic changes:
Flowey (photoshop): at least 2-C likely 2-B ---> Unknown (unless given further revisions)
Frisk (full determination): At least 2-C likely 2-B ---> unknown
Asriel dreemurr: 2-B ---> At least 2-C likely 2-B
Omega flowey destroyed multiple timelines by destroying frisks save files
Omega flowey destroying timelines is nothing more than destroying frisks access to those timelines. Save files are frisk/the players way of getting to different timelines. They do not physically encompass those timelines nor do the timelines get erased when the save files are destroyed. Saying destroying save files = destroying timelines is like saying that destroying a portal to another universe means destroying the universe itself.
There is plenty of more reason show it to be speculation, as once omega flowey is defeated and has lost control of the human souls, the underground is perfectly in tact and you still get an ending and even reload back to the judgement hall. Flowey would have no reason to suddenly recreate those timelines offscreen right after he has been beaten, nor would it be logically be possible since he is completely powerless with no control of the souls. Meaning that flowey in photoshop form was simply stopping frisk from reaching those timelines. Characters such as asgore who are not 4D are also able to destroy and remove certain gameplay mechanics which only return once they are defeated, just like with flowey. And to add on to that. Chara destroying the game actually results in all timelines being completely erased with frisk and the player being unable to do anything, no way to restore the game or erased save files other than chara performing a true reset. Meanwhile omega flowey has not shown to be able to perform a reset like chara nor put an end to the players game or progress.
So in other words, flowey is just cutting off frisks access to those timelines and not destroying them.
Flowey is superior to chara
The reasoning for this is mainly this statement. There are proplems with this. Chara at this point does not have a form capable of destroying timelines. Chara in the genocide route gets more powerful as the player kills people and starts to gain control of frisk until she is capable of taking control of the games reality as shown here. In the other routes chara was almost powerless with her only ability being narrating and calling to asriel. Chara in genocide however is stated in that scene to be getting stronger under the players influence.
Flowey has never changed his views on him becoming superior to chara throughout the genocide route and comments on chara destroying the world
For starters, chara never showcases timeline destroying power until the very end of the genocide route where flowey is dead. On top of that flowey never even compares their levels of power again. Secondly here He only refers to destroying everything "in this world" and "in these memories". Not the world/game itself. Destroying everything in it is simply reference to killing everybody in the underground and likely going to the surface (using the souls) to kill humans as well.
Assuming floweys statement true
Even if we assume floweys statement to be true, it is still not enough evidence to suggest him to be above chara. This is shown by the fact that immediately after absorbing the souls, before fighting frisk he states that he needs one more to "become a god". Which is a direct reference to asriel who only in that fight was talking about purging timelines, not caring about destroying the world (which implies he wanted to as a flower, but clearly never did or could) and resetting everything. Meaning that his end goal was to become asriel dreemurr and reset/destroy everything. This means that at best, asriel is the one who is superior to chara.
Omega flowey is superior because of his lv 9999 stats
This is likely just flowey tampering with the gameplay mechanics since that is what he does through most of the fight and there is no evidence to suggest those being his true stats. But regardless, lv =/= strength. In undertale a level 15 frisk in genocide does way more damage to enemies than a level 20 frisk in a neutral run. How does this make sense? If we go by charas statements, she states that the players power and determination is what awakened her from death and that the players guidance gave her that mindset and power. As we all know, love stands for level of violence and monsters are weak to humans with the intent to kill (this doesn't make them below average human before anyone suggests im saying that). The reason frisk does more damage when he has higher lv is simply because he has a greater intent to kill. On a genocide route, due to the fact that the players intent is to kill people and show no mercy, that influences chara and makes her desire to kill even greater, and on top of that, starts to reveal more of her power throughout the route. The players determination and power is what allowed chara to become that powerful. On neutral however, chara is not being turned into a completely bloodlusted maniac. And therefore isn't able to take power of determination from the player and achieve her full power nor inflict higher levels of damage on enemies. As for omega flowey, he is a completely bloodlusted maniac and would naturally have a higher level of violence. Meaning that someone having a higher lv does not immediately make them stronger. On top of that, if we went by omega floweys stats and scaled him to other characters then it could also downgrade him since his stats are finite and could lower characters. If anything scaling by a characters lv would be massively inconsistent due to the fact that someone with a higher lv can do more damage than someone with a lower lv. What would actually make more sense is to scale characters by actual attack and defence since someone with a higher attack and defence will always be stronger than someone with a lower attack and defence and relies on power and not attitude. I should also mention that when omega floweys defence drops to zero, a fully determined frisk doesnt one shot him despite having a lower defence and finite hp.
On top of that chara at the end game has no stats or a specific level. Even though chara is controlling end game frisk and frisk is getting some amount of power from chara and the player, this has not shown at all to be her own full power. Note that a full power attack from an end game frisk does this much damage (also note that asgore didnt die right away from a full power attack from a supposed 4D being). Even less if you are lv 20 neutral route. Meanwhile an endgame chara does this much damage. On top of that. Chara in a souless pacifist run is able to appear as a physical entity like in genocide and ruin your game despite frisk still only being level 1. Meaning they do not directly share the same stats, noteably when chara is free from the players control. So there is a clear difference between someone who is lv 20 and a fully powered chara. There is nothing to even suggest that an end of geno frisk is comparable to chara in the first place apart from chara taking control of him (which doesn't make them comparable at all).
In short terms. lv does not equate to power nor can it be used for scaling. Determination is what makes you stronger (desire to kill if you are fighting monsters). Chara does not have lv 20 stats.
Chara has 99 attack and 99 defence because of the real knife
Just because chara has the real knife and locket no matter what, that doesnt mean that is her attack and defence. If anything this would just add on to her attack and defence. If we went by this logic then anybody who could remove both items would reduce her at and def to 0 making her weaker than a froggit. Chara carries it due to it being her belongings. It doesnt indicate her having that statistic at all. Nor would it make either of these items multiverse busting weapons. This is like me saying that future trunks from dbz is only as powerful as his sword, or castlevania characters are as powerful as the weapons they wield.
Asriels status
Asriel in his fight has stated that he could destroy this world (same as what chara did) and was going to perform a true reset. Both chara and asriel should still have immeasurable speeds as chara could exist in a timeless void after the game is destroyed. Asriel should be able to perform this feat as well. However based on this revision, Asriel would not be infinitely superior to chara and would therefore be at least 2-C possibly 2-B.
Conclusion
Photoshop flowey does not destroy entire timelines and only cuts off access to them until defeated Photoshop flowey is not superior to chara
Statistic changes:
Flowey (photoshop): at least 2-C likely 2-B ---> Unknown (unless given further revisions)
Frisk (full determination): At least 2-C likely 2-B ---> unknown
Asriel dreemurr: 2-B ---> At least 2-C likely 2-B
