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MrKing whispers atrocites into my ear and I listen: The Lich (Enter the Gungeon) vs Caleb (Blood [for the blood God])

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>Resistance to bullets

The Lich is screwed

From a glance, Caleb's best bet seems to be soul hax, given that iirc we never saw anyone coming back after soul destruction in EtG.

Granted, Kaliber can most likely resurrect a soulless body turning it into a Spent, but at this point it's Caleb vs a 8-A zombie that dies if hit repeatedly so it's not a huge issue.

Dunno about absorption, but if it's biological, the Lich is made of bullets so there is that.

Death manipulation, I dunno how it would work out
 
Absorption: Probably soul-based. In-game, blasts from the Life Leech...well, leech life from targets and give it to Caleb instead. Doesn't work if he's at full health or above, though.

Death manipulation is basically this:

Voodoo Doll 1
It's actually more effective on undead beings, as well, and it can be used to kill gargoyles made of stone. (Although it takes more than one wave to bring one of those down, IIRC)
 
Voodoo Doll is Caleb's most OP weapon. And basically, it's internal organ damaging combined with soul destruction. That being said, Blood is in desperate need of a verse page.
 
If it's soul based it would work yeah.

The Lich's first move would probably be "BFR" into Bullet Hell, meaning that Caleb would have to find him, but during the actual fight, he mostly uses danmaku, with occasional summoning of minions

Is the voodoo doll soul based as well? Not doubting that it would work, but Kaliber could resurrect the Lich
 
I'm not sure about the Voodoo Doll, since I can't remember if it deals Spirit damage in-game or not. It would make sense if that were the case, though. (Logically it would certainly explain why it works on Stone Gargoyles and Phantasms, seeing as the former ones don't have any flesh/organs and the latter ones are literally just spirits from the "land of the dead")

Minions probably wouldn't be that much of a problem, but danmaku may or may not be an issue. The enemies in Caleb's home series mostly deal in bullets, melee and hitscan magic with only a couple of projectile-wielders in there, so I dunno how that would translate to a bullet-hell environment.

Caleb himself mostly specializes in guns, so that's probably what he would start off with. He might break out the more ridiculous stuff fairly quickly if he starts getting overwhelmed by projectiles right out of the gate, though.
 
This is an example of how the Lich fights.

The minions are here mostly as a distraction. And I can grant that it works *salty memories of my first run reaching bullet hell*
 
Lich's resurrection is based on time hax. Kaliber just resets time for them and they go back to their original point. Caleb seems able to kill the Lich but if time is reset then it's just an endless battle of attrition until The Lich wins, unless I'm missing something major here.

Also absorbing life force is not soul based. It can be, but it isn't like the automatic assumption.

So the main question is, can Caleb outdo the timehax resurrection of the Lich? If not then Lich will eventually win. by just dragging Caleb into Bullet Hell over and over and eventually winning. If yes, then this needs further thought.
 
It is?

The Gungeoneer's resurrection is based on time rewind, but I don't think that the same is stated/shown for the Lich.

Granted, Kaliber should be able to do it now that I think about it. I mean she is the one who controls the Gungeon
 
The life absorption alone isn't what makes it soul-based. The weapon deals Spirit damage in-game, which is basically direct damage to the soul. Its ammo is also "Trapped Souls" and when it runs out, it fuels itself by draining Caleb's health and/or Spirit Armour if he's wearing it.

I don't think Caleb has a way to stop time from being reset, though.
 
@Kalt Whenever the Lich dies, he is shot by (someone) by the Gun That Can Kill The Past. The Gungeoneer is sent spiralling back in time. I assume this is Kaliber but yeah. Lich is just sent backwards in time.

@Kind Okay, that's fine, sounds like soul manip. However if Caleb lacks a direct counter to time hax resurrection then Lich will take this regardless of other abilities, he just outlasts Caleb into infinity.

EDIT: If it wasn't obvious, for now, this means my vote is for Lich.
 
I suppose I'll vote for the Lich too, then. Caleb can almost certainly kill him for a while, but if he keeps coming back no matter what, then the former will eventually go down.
 
I mean

How is Caleb supposed to win then
 
I dunno. But shit, it's not like this is any different from any of the times someone won because of endless regen that couldn't be bypassed.
 
I mean

If one side had no win condition

Then ugh

Why were they added
 
They do. Technically Caleb can simply continue killing Lich into infinity, thus making incap or victory depending on how you interpret it. It's just hugely unlikely and not OP enough to go into stomping territory by the wiki's standards.
 
WHOOPS

Thinking of the first version of Lich's calc which was 975 Tons-ish.

Don't mind me I'm just a bumbling idiot.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
They do. Technically Caleb can simply continue killing Lich into infinity, thus making incap or victory depending on how you interpret it. It's just hugely unlikely and not OP enough to go into stomping territory by the wiki's standards.
Click to expand...
I mean, Incap requires an entire day of The Lich not being able to do anything so... If he can get back in less then a day I think this ain't gonna work
 
Abilities like this aren't generally held into stomping. It's an ability that makes them conclusively win. Stomping is a term that is thrown around too much, but generally speaking it would be like throwing Reinhard at A'tuin the World Turtle, where not only can the enemy not win in most scenarios, but they will rarely get any chance to possibly do anything. Specifically, it is an immediate victory for one side. Here, there is a viable fight that occurs as neither instantly defeats the other, but one ability means one character will most likely win.

As per this page, "A Stomp thread is when one character is immediately able to win against another, whether it is via battlefield removal, incapacitation or killing, with the opponent having no chance to retort with their own abilities or statistics." Basically, a stomp is when a fight thread is one character ensuring there is no fight at all, which is far from the case here.
 
Yeah, I really don't think this is what I would call a stomp. There's still a fight to be had; it's just inevitable that Caleb will eventually die.

On an unrelated note, per chance, is there anyone from EtG who'd be a good/thematic match for Tchernobog? Cause I've wanted to see him in a good thread for the longest time now.
 
Sadly Lich, Gungeoneers, and probably Resourceful Rat are the only ones that scale to 8-A feat, though maybe include the Advanced Dragun in there
 
So we've only got two profiles from the verse that qualify.

****.
 
If it helps I was gonna add Resourceful Rat, but he isn't very thematic if you see what I mea
 
...

That thread agreed to the Stomp Thread page as it is now, though.

Plus by that definition (not what is on the page, just what you've described here) almost every thread including survivability stuff is instantly a stomp since Character A has one better regen tier or some other ability (name whatever you like) that means they ultimately win despite how comparable they are otherwise.
 
I mean, it's not a matter of just survivability, it's, I CAN'T DIE IT'S IMPOSSIBLE

If Caleb cannot possibly win because of his abilites, it's a stomp.

If a character cannot beat another in any way due to an ability, it's a stomp.
 
That's not a stomp.

The characters are even or even Caleb-leaning otherwise. The fight will occur and be largely even. The fact of the matter is that Lich has regen.

It's basically the same deal as any Mindhax match where that's a one and done.

No need to start calling every conclusive victory a stomp when it just isn't. No offense meant, but that is done far too often when a thread gets turned around- somebody reveals a bit of information, and it goes from conclusive victory for the other side to "that's a stomp". Not good for business.
 
Caleb can conceivably incap by repeatedly defeating Lich. It is just hugely unlikely, much like is the case in most regen cases (unless they have infinite stamina).
 
Eh, seems a bit borderline stompish. I think if someone could even make one point against that wit would be considered a stomp, but otherwise it's good
 
Incap means that Caleb has to be able to walk off as The Lich can't do anything for 24 hours.

Can he really do that?
 
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