Battle for strongest 8-B: Misogi Kumagawa vs The Lich

[Agnaa]

@Gargoyle I haven't read the flashback manga arcs, but the only time I remember Misogi fighting after Bookmaker went off was against Medaka, and that was because he used Bookmaker precisely to fight Medaka on even terms.

 

[Agnaa]

shock of the change?

It's stated and demonstrated that the shock of having your statistics/mind/abilities dropped to Misogi's level effectively incaps.

 

[Schnee_One]

Huh.....

So I guess he uses Bookmaker and incaps and calls it a day

 

[Agnaa]

Some point in chapter 56

Does he really need a scan though when he has a very obvious win condition and has an infinite amount of chances to apply?

Chapter 56 was before he got Bookmaker.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Garg Yes, if it is in-character to do so since SBA is "willing to kill".

@Agnaa For how long?

 

[Schnee_One]

Facepalm

I reeeeeeaay need to reread that arc again....

Anyway, have a vote sir?

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not sure for how long, but I don't think it's long enough for that to give an incap win, and after that it'd be a draw, since Kumagawa would have reduce the Lich to his level.

Since they'd be equally powerful at that point, I'm not sure if that counts as incap or incon.

 

[Schnee_One]

As Bambu pointed out, AF Might work.

 

[Agnaa]

Since AF EE's them across all time, does Lich have any way around that?

 

[Schnee_One]

Don't think Kaliber's timehax has done anything like that no

For the time being put me on Kumagawa via All Fiction

 

[Agnaa]

I'll go along with Gargoyle.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Low Key seem like the litch may be a good match for The Stalker

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Just gonna say it, I absolutely don't believe Lich is anywhere near the strongest 8-B. He has no combat applicable hax aside from using BFR to bring people closer to him and into Bullet Hell.

But yeah, if it works across space and time, Lich gets murdered instantly and his decent survivability does nothing for him.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Same reason why Saber with Avalon couldn't be the strongest for her tier

 

[Schnee_One]

Low Key seem like the litch may be a good match for The Stalker

Godddammit

I officially regret making the assasin match because their were so many matches people wanted

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Why not make another one?

 

[Schnee_One]

I do t want to annoy Bambu and make multiple, I already made 2 with Lich

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

Does Lich even have a win-con here? If not, wouldn't this be considered a stomp?

 

[Schnee_One]

Does Lich even have a win-con here? If not, wouldn't this be considered a stomp?

Literally every one of Lich's wins are against opponents who don't have win cons

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I do t want to annoy Bambu and make multiple, I already made 2 with Lich

I'll make one later then, and Link you

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

That can be argued somewhat, honestly, the profile itself is kinda dumb, as we're just left to guess at when Kaliber will step in or not, the only characters than can really beat him are ones that could also kill Kaliber.

 

[Schnee_One]

I'll make one later then, and Link you

But if ya do that ya can't vote

Ah duck it, if Bambu gives it a go I'll make it for both of ya

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Kumagawa FRA. I'll make it if you can't

 

[RM97]

Kumagawa FRA

 

[Lancer45Man]

Kumagawa FRA

 

[Tman766]

Misogi for the reasons above

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Ok... so what is up with the Lich's ability to kill the past?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Apies Hasn't used it in character, presumably he could. Would also be extremely out of character for any Gungeoneer (which Lich once was) to use it on someone else, since the Gun That Can Kill The Past only aims at the shooter themselves.

Essentially, it sends the target back to one crucial moment, regardless of timeframe. Could be a whole nother milennia, just so long as you were alive- it gives the target a chance to alter the results of that time.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That can be argued somewhat, honestly, the profile itself is kinda dumb, as we're just left to guess at when Kaliber will step in or not, the only characters than can really beat him are ones that could also kill Kaliber.

I'm working on an explanation blog since it is sort of vague for those not familiar. Going through in-game lore.

As for Lich's matches. Not exactly. While unlikely, any character with suitable hax/stamina can avoid being BFR'd, as it relies on a physical component. Additionally, managing to incap Lich (as in, repeatedly beat him into the ground) is also a technically valid win-con, as it only furthers Kaliber's ultimate goal, that is, to punish Lich. By our standards they would have to ragdoll Lich for twenty four hours. Lich has no hax to counter that happening, save for regen and Danmaku to hopefully spam them off.

He's kind of a one-trick pony.

 

[Schnee_One]

Bambu voted Kumagawa btw

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I did, my vote changed since Kumagawa kills through time and space. Can't exactly rewind into an already dead state kek.

 

[Schnee_One]

That makes this unanimous

Close and add at will

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I can do the second bit.

Except to Medaka since I think they are locked.

But I will happily put my skeleton son in the ground.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Also. May I add... you really should find the true contender for second strongest for 8-B. I don't know who it is, but a simple time manipulator seems a weak example.

 

[Schnee_One]

Alternatively you can try

There's a lot of 8Bs that can't beat Time stuff

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't really care. I'm just saying as the person that works on the verse when bloodborne and D&D and stuff don't need me that I severely doubt Lich would be the strongest for 8-B. So if it is important, should look for the real contender.

 

[Schnee_One]

We did

We found these two and threw them against one another

If you say that these two aren't the strongest you need a contender

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't doubt Medaka being it lol. I always figured it would be.

Also where was it decided Lich was OP kek

 

[Schnee_One]

Your threads

He who says Thy Lich not broken shall proveth thy statement

 

[Mr. Bambu]

oh god

the passive aggressive

the internet has cometh for my soul

But nah. Seriously any guy who negs this specific timehax will probably win since Lich's own regen isn't bad but not a lot comparatively, his resistances are in the dozens range and all of his attacks can be defined as Bony Hands and Danmaku.

But oh well. You do you mang. I'm just saying, methinks you chose wrong.