Zenitsu needs a big upgrade since he is useful against Muzan. And Mitsuri should be upgraded. And MAYBE both of them plus Inosuke should be upgraded t

[Goodyfresh]

Just what it says in the title. Zenitsu has been useful against Muzan in the latest chapter (198), both able to withstand attacks from some his tentacles and survive to keep moving and attacking, as well as cause damage to Muzan's body, while tag-teaming Muzan with Inosuke and Tanjiro.

Therefore, we need to upgrade both his Dura and AP to "At Least 8-C, At Most 8-B" like what we have for characters like Inosuke and Kanao.

However, maybe both him and Inosuke should be upgraded to Solid 8-B just by scaling to Muzan's tentacles? Or does that seem like a bad idea given that Muzan has weakened significantly at this point since when he was fighting the Pillars?

Also, it looks like Mitsuri should be upgraded to "At Least 8-C at Most 8-B" or possibly just Solid 8-B as well since she was able to rip off one of Muzan's arms/tentacles with just brute physical strength and her bare hands, while already wounded and weakened herself. Meaning that she can perform "At Least 8-C at Most 8-B" feats without even using her Nichirin Blade, and the thing is that she's even stronger with the blade.

About the 8-B thing: Hasn't it pretty much been agreed-upon at this point that Muzan's tentacles are each individually 8-B? Meaning that anyone who can severely damage or parry them is a solid 8-B? What are everyone's thoughts on this?

 

[Siegfried10]

Muzan is severly weakened right now, well, everyone is. Tanjirou is the only one that is still somewhat fine, and everyone is protecting him because of that.

I dont agree with upgrading Kanroji, Zenitsu or Inosuke for injuring an insanely weakened Muzan.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

At the very least, I think Zenitsu should scale to the others.

 

[Siegfried10]

Zenitsu should scale to Inosuke, i do agree on that.

 

[Goodyfresh]

Zenitsu should scale to Inosuke, i do agree on that.

Okay so can we at least change Zenitsu to "At Least 8-C, At Most 8-B?"

What about Mitsuri? She clearly scales to Inosuke and Zenitsu as well now, but currently she is only listed as 8-C. Shouldn't we change her as well to "At Least 8-C, At Most 8-B?"

Dragonmasterxyz, would you be okay with these edits as an admin, and do you have the authority to approve them?

 

[Peter1129]

I don't agree with Zenitsu scaling to Inosuke and the others. I'm fine with him becoming 8-C but I don't agree with him getting 8-B. It's very clearly shown that everybody at this point of the fight is heavily weakened as even Mitsuri who really wasn't wounded that badly (as she was the first to go down and have plenty of time to rest) can rip off Muzan's arm even though previously she couldn't even scratch him with her attacks. Sanemi who was also previously unable to cut Muzan's arm could cut it now. So Zenitsu scaling to the current weakened Pillars, Inosuke and Tanjirou doesn't mean he is 8-B.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

I mentioned this in the main thread:

So Zenitsu says "I am too slow" after landing a hit on Muzan with Thunderclap and Flash, he then uses Godspeed. This proves that Zenitsu's speed correlates to his attack power, so he should be eligible for Kinetic Energy Feats. This would upgrade him to 8-B+, and other characters would be upgraded via. scaling.

Which I prefer to be reserved until the major post-battle CRT since it affects more than Zenitsu alone.

But I agree on scaling Zenitsu to Inosuke.

 

[Peter1129]

You should probably just make a CRT on that now so we can see if it's even usable. If it is usable we'll bring it up on the CRT when it's made if it isn't than we'll just ignore it. And to be honest I don't think that's enough to make KE usable. Also isn't his speed still being debated?

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Alright, I'll make one in a bit.

By the way, Tanjiro without the DSM, Inosuke, and Kanao all have "At most" 8-B+, so this makes the current scaling less speculative without actually contradicting it. So while it can be complicated to figure out the scaling for the base Hashira, it is not an outlier in the current scaling.

 

[Peter1129]

Problem is Zenitsu doesn't have any feats of scaling to them. All three of them have actual feats of scaling to an 8-B+ in some way while Zenitsu doesn't. Most Base Pillars just scale to Zou Hakuten. Tanjirou, Kanao, and Inosuke have surpassed all the pillars except for maybe Gyomei in Base.

 

[Goodyfresh]

Alright, I'll make one in a bit.
By the way, Tanjiro without the DSM, Inosuke, and Kanao all have "At most" 8-B+, so this makes the current scaling less speculative without actually contradicting it. So while it can be complicated to figure out the scaling for the base Hashira, it is not an outlier in the current scaling.

Yeah I can accept the "At Most 8-B" thing for characters like Zenitsu and Mitsuri who need to be upgraded.

 

[Peter1129]

Neither Mitsuri nor Zenitsu meets the requirements of at most 8-B. Currently only those that scale to or above UM3 lvl characters would be at most 8-B. Mitsuri was only around UM4 Lvl and Zenitsu was only around UM6 lvl.

 

[Goodyfresh]

Neither Mitsuri nor Zenitsu meets the requirements of at most 8-B. Currently only those that scale to or above UM3 lvl characters would be at most 8-B. Mitsuri was only around UM4 Lvl and Zenitsu was only around UM6 lvl.

I guess I can see that, but I mean, when Zenitsu used his Godspeed Thunderclap and Flash against Muzan, he certainly seemed to do just as well against him as Inosuke was doing (if not actually somewhat better), so why shouldn't he scale to exactly the same tiering we have given Inosuke, and why shouldn't the same hold true for Mitsuri? If some big authorities/admins end up agreeing with you on this assessment (that they should not be given the "At Most 8-B" part in their tier), then I will drop the subject though.

 

[Peter1129]

Muzan was weakened to the point where people who were previously unable to scratch him like Mitsuri can now physically overpower him and rip off his arm. People who he previously one shot by him (basically everybody) can now keep up with him. Also it's not just Muzan that's weakened literally everybody at this point is weakened.

Inosuke has parried attacks from Doma as well as managed to cut Muzan's arm before he was weakened. Zenitsu has only managed to cut Muzan's arm when he was heavily weakened.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Mitsuri was able to cut Muzan the second time around , and her arm strength is similar to most Pillars. Both invisible Zenitsu's and invisible Kanao's attacks were considered annoying and distracting for Muzan before his epic debuff.

 

[Torein]

Only because Muzan is weakened now. Tanjiro did the most work.

 

[Peter1129]

Mitsuri was able to cut Muzan the second time around, and her arm strength is similar to most Pillars. Both invisible Zenitsu's and invisible Kanao's attacks were considered annoying and distracting for Muzan before his epic debuff.

We already consider that instance as Muzan flexing his Regenerationn otherwise Obanai would be 8-A for cutting his neck. They were considered annoying for Muzan before he got serious also we never saw them cutting his arms which at most 8-B+ characters like Marked Giyuu and Marked Sanemi can't cut. He got serious the next chapter and one shot all of them.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Even if Muzan wasn't serious, Zenitsu was still portrayed to do similar damage to Kanao.

 

[Peter1129]

Thing is we don't see them cutting his arm. His arm is where 8-B Obanai came from. Zenitsu never cut it same with Kanao. But Kanao has scaling from Inosuke and fighting Doma. Zenitsu has none of that. And Zenitsu being on the same lvl as Kanao, Inosuke or Tanjirou is not really possible especially not when he didn't even learn Repetitive Actions.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

However Zenitsu has scaling with Kanao due to Muzan considering their attacks similarily annoying.

Mastery of Repetitive Action in no way makes scaling impossible. Repetitive Action is about having a trigger to consistently access full strength and concentration (for Tanjiro it is remembering his family and the words "Set your heart ablaze", for Genya and Himejima it is prayers reminding them of their pain and anger, for Inosuke it is Pig Assault). Tanjiro unknowingly accessed this power previously such as when he used his Demon Slayer Mark, and was training so he can permanently maintain his Mark. Zenitsu gets a powerboost by remembering his grandfather, so it is not a 'Zenitsu needs to train for six weeks to catch up' thing.

 

[Peter1129]

That's a huge stretch. He also called Sanemi's oil trick underhanded and annoying. Calling something annoying doesn't mean much.

You could be right but still scaling Zenitsu to 8-B would cause way too much scaling problems. If Zentisu scales than that would mean Kaigaku scales as he was able to fight and keep up with Zenitsu and nearly kill him until he used his seventh form.

And here is the problem. Kaigaku was given the rank UM6 even though UM5 has been left empty by Muzan. Which means he was likely only given this title because his strength is likely just at the Lvl of Gyutaro and nothing higher. And this is where the problem starts. If so this would than make all the upper moons at most 8-B+ which makes absolutely no sense at all. As the at most 8-B was only given to those comparable to Akaza.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Tanjiro was the only one who could actually hold off and fight on par with the serious slightly weakened Muzan, the other Demon Slayers all got one-shot by the form that Tanjiro fought on par with, only when Tanjiro and Muzan were more weakened (Tanjiro couldn't even use the Red Nichirin Sword or See-Through the World) did other Demon Slayers join in and manage to do well against Muzan

 

[Goodyfresh]

Okay seeing what everyone has been discussing in my thread since I've been gone, I'm going to go with the idea that we should AT MOST only scale Zenitsu and Mitsuri to "At Least 8-C" for now. Since Muzan has been so incredibly weakened at this point, we don't know if scaling to his individual tentacles is at this point able to justify "At Most 8-B" for people.

I suspect that both Zenitsu and Mitsuri DO in fact scale properly to Inosuke as "At Most 8-B," though. I'm honestly only saying what I am in the above paragraph because I see that plenty of people disagree with me, and I don't want to get into any heated arguments. So I'd rather just drop the whole "At Most 8-B" thing for now, so we can at least all agree on upgrading Zenitsu to At Least 8-C like he deserves. In other words, my own personal opinion is that both Zenitsu and Mitsuri DO scale to Inosuke as "At Most 8-B," buuuuut since so many seem to disagree, I'm just going to drop it and say let's upgrade Zenitsu to At Least 8-C.

Sound good?

 

[Peter1129]

It's probably best for him to just be Likely 8-C possibly higher for being able to keep up with a heavily weakened Muzan who was still capable of beating up Mitsuri. Although I really don't understand why you made this thread when we were going to make a huge revision fixing all the scaling and stuff once the series ends and all the calcs are done. Cause Gyutaro has a feat might potentially be tier 8 so if you had just waited most of the high tiers might've become tier 8 sooner or later.

 

[Goodyfresh]

It's probably best for him to just be Likely 8-C possibly higher for being able to keep up with a heavily weakened Muzan who was still capable of beating up Mitsuri. Although I really don't understand why you made this thread when we were going to make a huge revision fixing all the scaling and stuff once the series ends and all the calcs are done. Cause Gyutaro has a feat might potentially be tier 8 so if you had just waited most of the high tiers might've become tier 8 sooner or later.

Honestly 90% of the reason I made this thread is because I'm just tired of Zenitsu being the only person in the Main Squad who isn't Tier 8, it makes him look pathetic. I want justice for our favorite formerly-cowardly blonde boi. Lol. I know there will be a big CRT once the series ends, but that may take a few more months given we still have the rest of the final battle, as well as whatever epilogue (answers about the Blue Spider Lily and the doctor who made Muzan a Demon, as well as resolution and maybe a time-skip to married life with kids for the characters who survive?) we end up getting. So for now, I want anyone who isn't into the series (or who is anime-only) who sees the profiles to at least realize that Zenitsu isn't a pathetic POS compared to the rest of the cast.