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- #801
I have good news, Kieran said he’s gonna do the volcano eruption feat Eldin does, so we at least got a skyward sword calc done.
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Zelda tiering and scaling revisions
- Thread starter Theglassman12
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That's good, hopefully by the time the last few SS calcs are done I'll be done doing the calcs I'm doing so I can chip in again calc-wise.
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- #803
the only notable ones left are Faron and Levia’s feat, Bambu said he’s gonna let me know when they’re done but idk if he’s gonna be done sooner or later.
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There's definitely other notable ones but they can be figured out later to flesh things out, we just need some calcs for temple bosses is all atm, which is what these would function as.
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- #805
If they are secondary feats that the majority of characters don’t need to have a tier then they can be saved for later.
Dust_Collector
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KieranH10 posted the eldin eruption calc about 20 minutes ago.
Was not expecting to see it get results below tier 7.
Was not expecting to see it get results below tier 7.
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Oh
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Another priority 4 calculation sadly yeah.
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Soo there is anything left before doing the updates?
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- #810
Welp…. Low key hoping that volcano feat was around 7-B, but hey, we got a calc. Now we just need to get Levia and Faron’s feats done then we should discuss on where the characters’ new ratings should be.
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Yeah, that's what happens when ya use in game proportions 
But it be like that sometimes sadly.
It's probably a low-end lore-wise, pretty sure that's Death Mountain which has been shown to be at least 900m in some games. But oh well.
But it be like that sometimes sadly.
It's probably a low-end lore-wise, pretty sure that's Death Mountain which has been shown to be at least 900m in some games. But oh well.
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Bump
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- #813
Is anyone here able to do flood or storm calcs? Cause all we have left is Levia and Faron's feat.
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Storm calcs yeah, I can do.
How we getting the size though? Because there's a few ways.
How we getting the size though? Because there's a few ways.
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- #815
we can pixel scale skyloft, and use that to scale to the world map where you see the giant storm barrier and skyloft.
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- #816
Is that method doable for you? @Chariot190
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It is, just looking at other methods, I did some rough ones just to see and it can vary quite a bit depending on the how.
Unsure which method is the best overall so still looking at things.
Unsure which method is the best overall so still looking at things.
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- #818
Ok
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- #819
While we’re waiting for Chariot and Bambu to finish the last remaining calcs, how about we make a list for where the new ratings go for each character just to get that out of the way?
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Agree
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- #821
So where is Vaati gonna be ranked at? Cause there’s no triforce or master sword for him to scale to.
Dust_Collector
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Doesn't he scale to Hylia? I swear that was the reason he got the same wind fish scaling as everyone else did months ago, something about absorbing most of the Light Force which was Hylias source of power. If not then his storm feat from FSA would be the feat he'd get ranked by if we have a size for Hyrule in that game.
Besides that a lot of the scaling is clear cut, Hylia, Demise, SS Link, and Ghirahim scale to Island level due to Hylias cloud barrier, and any Link that wields the Master Sword also gets the same scaling since the Master Sword is what let SS Link clap Demises cheeks, only exceptions would be WW and BOTW Link who would also need an extra key for the brief periods they have a depowered Master Sword. Pre-Triforce of Power Ganondorf scales since he fought WW Link who by their final battle had regained the full power of the Master Sword, and the incomplete physical form of Calamity Ganon fights BOTW Link who at that point also has the full power of the blade during their battle (Whether or not he went through the Master Trials DLC doesn't matter, the Master Sword automatically regains it's full power whenever it's in the presence of Calamity Ganon). I think the four Blight Ganons might also scale to 6-C, it's not confirmed if Link has the Master Sword when he fights them, but I think AOC has them being able to compete with a Master Sword wielding Link, and the game also shows they're powerful enough to withstand the blue beams the Divine Beats fire, same beams that can harm Calamity Ganon (Although it should be noted they take way more damage from the beams that the calamity does).
I don't know how exactly we're handling the Malladus stuff, are we listing his calc as a possibly due to not knowing the exact specifics of how he'd destroy New Hyrule? I'm not sure if, for example, we're making Triforce of Power Ganondorf At least 6-C, possibly High 6-B or straight up High 6-B.
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It’s likely gonna be a possibly rating as opposed to a concrete one.
Though correct me if I’m wrong, did Link get the master sword upgraded all the way by the time his second fight with Ghirahim happened or was it still incomplete?
Though correct me if I’m wrong, did Link get the master sword upgraded all the way by the time his second fight with Ghirahim happened or was it still incomplete?
Dust_Collector
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It was still incomplete.
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- #825
I don’t know if normal ghirahim should scale to the master sword then. His transformed state can scale, but idk about his base since he lost to an incomplete sword.
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,834
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Yeah his base and partially transformed states don't scale.
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- #827
So TL;DR, base and partial transformed ghirahim scales above Eldin and Faron, but full transformed scales to Master sword right?
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,834
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Yep
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6-C probably? He also has a storm, didn't bother calcing it because it'd end identical to Dust's Ganon's storm.
His castle thing can be used as a supporting feat.
Though Dust brings up a good point with Hylia which would result in the same tier anyhow.
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Alright, I’m gonna try to make a list of the characters ratings later today, feel free to correct me if there’s any mistakes.
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Zelda 1 and 2 Link, Dark Link, Adult OoT Link, TP Link Endgame, ALBW Link,: At least 6-C+, possibly High 6-A (Via scaling to Triforce of Power Ganondorf, who's power, thanks to the triforce makes him superior to creatures like the 4 giants, who can stop the moon from crashing on termina, which yields this much power)
Four Swords Adventure Link, Minish Cap Link: 6-C (Is capable of defeating Vaati with the Light force drained from Zelda, which should make him comparable to Hylia, who's capable of creating a cloud barrier)
Spirit Tracks Link: possibly High 6-B (Is capable of defeating Malladus, who can destroy New Hyrule in a short timeframe)
ALTTP Link, WW Link, Oracles Link, and Shadow Link: 6-C (Fought an unamped Ganondorf, who's capable of creating a storm that yields this level of power)
Skyward Sword Link: 8-C+, possibly higher [Given that Ghirahim was toying with Link at their first fight and only left because Zelda and Impa left] with the Goddess sword (Is capable of withstanding bomb explosions, which yield this much power) | 8-A, possibly higher [depending on what Faron's calc grants] with the goddess longsword and white sword (Is actually capable of defeating Ghirahim, who's superior to the Dragons Faron and Eldin, who can cause a flood and a volcanic eruption) | Unknown [Is heavily reliant on Levia's storm calc for this level, this also applies to every next character with Unknown on their ratings] with the Master Sword (Can stop the Ocular Parasite: Bilocyte, who's able to control Levias, who's capable of creating a massive cloud storm) | 6-C+ with the full powered Master Sword (Is capable of defeating Demise, who's comparable to Hylia, who's capable of creating a cloud barrier)
Child OoT Link and Pre-Master Sword TP Link: 8-C+ (Is capable of withstanding bomb explosions, which yield this much power)
Link's Awakening Link: High 7-A (Has enough magic power to use the Ether Medallion, which can clear a thunderstorm, which yields this much power)
MM Link: High 6-C (Is capable of defeating creatures like Gyorg, who's capable of increasing the temperature of Termina Bay's ocean with little effort)
Trinexx: High 7-A, possibly 6-C (Is capable of withstanding blows from the Ether Medallion and the master sword)
Shadow Nightmare and Wind Fish: High 7-A (Should be comparable to Link, who can use the Ether medallion with his own magic, which can clear a thunderstorm, which yields this much power)
Iron Knuckle, King Dodongo, Barinade, Dead Hands: 8-C+ (Comparable to Child Link, who can withstand bomb explosions, which yield this much power)
Morpha, Bongo Bongo, Phantom Ganon (OoT), and Volvagia: Unknown, possibly 6-C (Is comparable to the Master Sword)
Majora (Host possessed) and the 4 Giants: High 6-A (Can drop the moon on the land of termina, and stop the moon from crashing respectively, which yields this much power)
Majora's full power and Fierce Deity Link: High 4-C (Is capable of creating and sustaining a pocket dimension with a star inside, and his death causes the moon to vanish, the former feat yielding this much power)
Onox and Veran base form: 7-B (Onox is capable of creating thunderstorms easily, which yield this much power)
Onox and Veran true form: 6-C: (Is capable of withstanding blows from Link with the Master Sword)
Four Swords Adventure Ganondorf: 6-C+ (Should be comparable to his unamped self, who's capable of creating a storm that yields this level of power)
Phantom Ganondorf: 6-C (Can trade blows with full powered Master Sword Link)
Molgera: Unknown (Can take on Link with an incomplete Master Sword)
TP Link with Master Sword: 6-C (Wields the master sword, which can defeat Demise, who's comparable to Hylia, who's capable of creating a cloud barrier)
Argorok and Zant: 6-C+ (Should be comparable to Link with the master sword, and was amped by Ganondorf during the events of the game)
Midna: 6-C+ (Can kill Zant effortlessly), much higher in her true form and Fused Shadow state
Bellum: possibly 6-C+ (Drained the life of Tetra, who wields the light force, which makes him comparable to Vaati)
Fraaz: 8-C+ (Comparable to early game Link)
Ghirahim [Base and Partially transformed]: Unknown (Can take on Link with an incomplete Master Sword) | 6-C with true form (Can take on Link with the full powered Master Sword)
Faron: Unknown (Is capable of flooding Faron province)
Demise: Unknown (Is superior to base Ghirahim and Levias) | 6-C (Is comparable to Hylia, who's capable of creating a cloud barrier)
Levias: Unknown (Is capable of creating a massive storm barrier)
Yuga: 6-C (Is capable of utilizing magic only the master sword is able to break) | At least 6-C+, possibly High 6-A (Is fused with Ganondorf and amped by two pieces of the Triforce, who's power, thanks to the triforce makes them superior to creatures like the 4 giants, who can stop the moon from crashing on termina, which yields this much power)
Lady Maud: High 7-A, possibly 6-C (Is superior to bosses comparable to Trinexx, who is capable of withstanding blows from the Ether Medallion and the master sword)
Guardian, Thunder/Wind/Water/Fireblight Ganon, and Monk Maz: 6-C (Should be comparable to Link with the master sword)
Everyone in Hyrule Warriors: 6-C (Should be comparable to Argorok, who's able to withstand blows from Link with the master sword)
Endgame HW Link, Cia and HW Ganondorf with the Full Triforce: 3-A (Wields and is amped by the Full triforce, which is capable of recreating the sacred realm to be a dark reflection of the user’s heart)
Gohma: 8-C+ (Can withstand attacks from child link), 6-C in TP (Is capable of fighting Link with the Master Sword)
Twinrova: 7-A (Is superior to beings like Onox, who is capable of creating thunderstorms easily, which yield this much power) | 6-C (Can take on Link with the Master Sword)
Gorons, Hylian Knights, and Gerudos: 8-C+ (via scaling to the bombs)
Ganondorf: 6-C [pre-Triforce of Power], Botched Resurrection, and Calamity Ganon (is capable of creating a storm that yields this level of power, is also capable of taking on Link with the Master Sword) | at least 6-C, possibly High 6-A [with the Triforce of Power] (Wields the Triforce of Power, which makes him superior to creatures like the 4 giants, who can stop the moon from crashing on termina, which yields this much power) | 3-A [Sealed War Ganondorf] (Was stated to have been amped by the full power of the Triforce during the Sealed War, the Triforce being capable of warping the Sacred Realm to the dark reflection of the user's heart)
Four Swords Adventure Link, Minish Cap Link: 6-C (Is capable of defeating Vaati with the Light force drained from Zelda, which should make him comparable to Hylia, who's capable of creating a cloud barrier)
Spirit Tracks Link: possibly High 6-B (Is capable of defeating Malladus, who can destroy New Hyrule in a short timeframe)
ALTTP Link, WW Link, Oracles Link, and Shadow Link: 6-C (Fought an unamped Ganondorf, who's capable of creating a storm that yields this level of power)
Skyward Sword Link: 8-C+, possibly higher [Given that Ghirahim was toying with Link at their first fight and only left because Zelda and Impa left] with the Goddess sword (Is capable of withstanding bomb explosions, which yield this much power) | 8-A, possibly higher [depending on what Faron's calc grants] with the goddess longsword and white sword (Is actually capable of defeating Ghirahim, who's superior to the Dragons Faron and Eldin, who can cause a flood and a volcanic eruption) | Unknown [Is heavily reliant on Levia's storm calc for this level, this also applies to every next character with Unknown on their ratings] with the Master Sword (Can stop the Ocular Parasite: Bilocyte, who's able to control Levias, who's capable of creating a massive cloud storm) | 6-C+ with the full powered Master Sword (Is capable of defeating Demise, who's comparable to Hylia, who's capable of creating a cloud barrier)
Child OoT Link and Pre-Master Sword TP Link: 8-C+ (Is capable of withstanding bomb explosions, which yield this much power)
Link's Awakening Link: High 7-A (Has enough magic power to use the Ether Medallion, which can clear a thunderstorm, which yields this much power)
MM Link: High 6-C (Is capable of defeating creatures like Gyorg, who's capable of increasing the temperature of Termina Bay's ocean with little effort)
Trinexx: High 7-A, possibly 6-C (Is capable of withstanding blows from the Ether Medallion and the master sword)
Shadow Nightmare and Wind Fish: High 7-A (Should be comparable to Link, who can use the Ether medallion with his own magic, which can clear a thunderstorm, which yields this much power)
Iron Knuckle, King Dodongo, Barinade, Dead Hands: 8-C+ (Comparable to Child Link, who can withstand bomb explosions, which yield this much power)
Morpha, Bongo Bongo, Phantom Ganon (OoT), and Volvagia: Unknown, possibly 6-C (Is comparable to the Master Sword)
Majora (Host possessed) and the 4 Giants: High 6-A (Can drop the moon on the land of termina, and stop the moon from crashing respectively, which yields this much power)
Majora's full power and Fierce Deity Link: High 4-C (Is capable of creating and sustaining a pocket dimension with a star inside, and his death causes the moon to vanish, the former feat yielding this much power)
Onox and Veran base form: 7-B (Onox is capable of creating thunderstorms easily, which yield this much power)
Onox and Veran true form: 6-C: (Is capable of withstanding blows from Link with the Master Sword)
Four Swords Adventure Ganondorf: 6-C+ (Should be comparable to his unamped self, who's capable of creating a storm that yields this level of power)
Phantom Ganondorf: 6-C (Can trade blows with full powered Master Sword Link)
Molgera: Unknown (Can take on Link with an incomplete Master Sword)
TP Link with Master Sword: 6-C (Wields the master sword, which can defeat Demise, who's comparable to Hylia, who's capable of creating a cloud barrier)
Argorok and Zant: 6-C+ (Should be comparable to Link with the master sword, and was amped by Ganondorf during the events of the game)
Midna: 6-C+ (Can kill Zant effortlessly), much higher in her true form and Fused Shadow state
Bellum: possibly 6-C+ (Drained the life of Tetra, who wields the light force, which makes him comparable to Vaati)
Fraaz: 8-C+ (Comparable to early game Link)
Ghirahim [Base and Partially transformed]: Unknown (Can take on Link with an incomplete Master Sword) | 6-C with true form (Can take on Link with the full powered Master Sword)
Faron: Unknown (Is capable of flooding Faron province)
Demise: Unknown (Is superior to base Ghirahim and Levias) | 6-C (Is comparable to Hylia, who's capable of creating a cloud barrier)
Levias: Unknown (Is capable of creating a massive storm barrier)
Yuga: 6-C (Is capable of utilizing magic only the master sword is able to break) | At least 6-C+, possibly High 6-A (Is fused with Ganondorf and amped by two pieces of the Triforce, who's power, thanks to the triforce makes them superior to creatures like the 4 giants, who can stop the moon from crashing on termina, which yields this much power)
Lady Maud: High 7-A, possibly 6-C (Is superior to bosses comparable to Trinexx, who is capable of withstanding blows from the Ether Medallion and the master sword)
Guardian, Thunder/Wind/Water/Fireblight Ganon, and Monk Maz: 6-C (Should be comparable to Link with the master sword)
Everyone in Hyrule Warriors: 6-C (Should be comparable to Argorok, who's able to withstand blows from Link with the master sword)
Endgame HW Link, Cia and HW Ganondorf with the Full Triforce: 3-A (Wields and is amped by the Full triforce, which is capable of recreating the sacred realm to be a dark reflection of the user’s heart)
Gohma: 8-C+ (Can withstand attacks from child link), 6-C in TP (Is capable of fighting Link with the Master Sword)
Twinrova: 7-A (Is superior to beings like Onox, who is capable of creating thunderstorms easily, which yield this much power) | 6-C (Can take on Link with the Master Sword)
Gorons, Hylian Knights, and Gerudos: 8-C+ (via scaling to the bombs)
Ganondorf: 6-C [pre-Triforce of Power], Botched Resurrection, and Calamity Ganon (is capable of creating a storm that yields this level of power, is also capable of taking on Link with the Master Sword) | at least 6-C, possibly High 6-A [with the Triforce of Power] (Wields the Triforce of Power, which makes him superior to creatures like the 4 giants, who can stop the moon from crashing on termina, which yields this much power) | 3-A [Sealed War Ganondorf] (Was stated to have been amped by the full power of the Triforce during the Sealed War, the Triforce being capable of warping the Sacred Realm to the dark reflection of the user's heart)
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Are we treating Malladus as only a possibly? If so wouldn't that just make it support?
As I thought we were scaling ToP tier characters and above to "possibly High 6-A" via the giants/skull kid? Or are we not doing that?
As I thought we were scaling ToP tier characters and above to "possibly High 6-A" via the giants/skull kid? Or are we not doing that?
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Also I've been looking at Skyward Swords world to pin down good ways to calc the feats and I noticed something, notably Eldin Volcano, towers completely over the Faron Region despite being who knows how far away. So we're working with ****** sizes here, given how absolutely massive it is from a distance.
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- #834
Unless I’m misremembering what we discussed the Malladus feat was what we were scaling the ToP
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- #835
@Dust_Collector @DarkDragonMedeus @KobsterHope07 @Cyberblader90 @Armorchompy can you guys give some input on the new scaling on the feats? The sooner we get this done; the earlier we can apply the changes once calcs are done and we can end this discussion.
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That was back when it was gonna be used as a benchmark. Maybe it got lost somewhere but pretty sure we talked about scaling ToP to Giants/Skull Kid with the caveat of "possibly".
Like maybe I'm full of shit but I recall me and Dust talking about that.
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Looks like okay place holders for now, but Chariot makes some good points about calculations likely being heavily lowballed.
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- #838
Last time I checked wasn’t that the main reason why the SS calcs were considered inflated in the first place? Because the world map was used to scale despite the actual map not reflecting that whatsoever?
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Hmmm, where does the 6-C+ in the scaling comes from. I see this calculation being used but it it not 6-C+
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Jokes aside, I agree with Glass' proposal here. Atleast I have a reason to like Gyorg now, hated that creepy thing as a toddler.
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