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Zamasu (manga) Regenerationn

SSJRyu1

SSJRyu1

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In the manga it is made clear by Berus that his power, though superior to Zmaasu could not kill him due to his immortality. This would include Hakai. While it is true Hakai is sometimes depicted to turn individuals into sand during the attack, it is also directly stated that it can destroy Frieza body and soul in the manga, so he could never be revived. Thus it can be concluded that Hakai can indeed erase beings from existance just liek in the anime, it is a simple artistic choice to show them turn to and first, but it is confirmed they can be completly erased by Beerus. It also is consistent with the anime to, far better than assuming a low ball due to seeing sand.

https://imgur.com/a/38nlVRT

This being said Beerus in manga should ahve the same existance erasure as anime, and thus Zamasu from manga should have mid-godly Regenerationn.

Edit: Can see a more encompasing tie in revision thread here that also covers this topic and more.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2572054
 
I think the method by which Beerus would destroy Freeza's soul was never stated to be through hakai.
 
Destroying the soul is just soul destruction, right? Was it ever stated it can erase someone from existence like the anime did?
 
Well Beerus specifically states he would destroy Frieza (body), and his soul so he cannot come back. So that means erasing body and soul just like in anime. It would constitute the same thing. And it is consistent with all the other showings of how Hakai works in all other media.
 
But Beerus could just bust Frieza's soul while he's dead. That's something that even Majin Buu could do against Vegeta.
 
The issue is Frieza was not in other world, he was given a body and placed in the living world so he would just be put back in Hell if killed as a soul. Also Majin buu doing that is anime only so it's questionable if it is even canon to manga/Super. And Beerus wouldn't have made a big deal of it if he would just kill him, he goes out of his way to point out he could not only destroy his body but his soul to all at once if Frieza doesn't do as he says and hold hands for travel. So the fact is he can destroy body and soul at once completely with no chance of resurrection. That is highly consistent with all other showings of Hakai in other sources as well.
 
Okay. But I stand neutral here. I think Matt would have something yo say about this thread.
 
Those killed by Demons can't be revived wIthout Super Dragon Ball, meaning all demons have soul destruction. As their existance gets erased.


http://*********.us/dragon-ball-super-chapter-42?page=4


This is a basic fact reconfirmed by the manga. This was established way back in DB days.
 
SSJRyu1 said:
Well Beerus specifically states he would destroy Frieza (body), and his soul so he cannot come back. So that means erasing body and soul just like in anime. It would constitute the same thing. And it is consistent with all the other showings of how Hakai works in all other media.
Click to expand...
I totally get that. If you ask me I am sure it's most probably hakai because it's supported by the lore and all other media. I think it was brought up by SD, but we treat the manga as its own separate thing and if we focus solely on the manga without any correlation with anything else, Beerus never implied he would use hakai to destroy Freeza's body and soul.

I am neutral here, maybe you can ask SD for input.
 
I totally get that. If you ask me I am sure it's most probably hakai because it's supported by the lore and all other media. I think it was brought up by SD, but we treat the manga as its own separate thing and if we focus solely on the manga without any correlation with anything else, Beerus never implied he would use hakai to destroy Freeza's body and soul.

I am neutral here, maybe you can ask SD for input.


If it is not hakai or energy of destruction which is also hakai.


Then it is standard ki that has the power to destroy souls.


Which is supported by the manga in chapter 42. And stated and alluded to as far back in the Demon King Piccolo ark. And reaffirmed in DBH.


Pick your poison and roll with it.
 
There is no reason to assume Beerus being unable to get rid of Zamasu has anything to do with the latters regen though, at most you can only infer he is resistant to whatever soul destruction technique Beerus might have in the manga.
 
Goku's hakai was working on Zamasu, yet Beerus said that his technique won't be able to kill immortals. It implies that Zamasu would've come back even after Goku's hakai, thus Regenerationn.
 
AKM sama said:
Goku's hakai was working on Zamasu, yet Beerus said that his technique won't be able to kill immortals. It implies that Zamasu would've come back even after Goku's hakai, thus Regenerationn.
Click to expand...
You'd have to assume Zamasu's soul would have been erased as a result (as opposed to simply resisting it and regenerating his body), you cannot infer that from the simple destruction of his body.
 
Only problem is that he was not resisting it. The technique was visibly shown to be working and the only thing Zamasu could do was pull a cheap trick for Goku to stop. We can only make a logical decision with least assumptions and with what information we have. Thus according to Occam's razor, it's more logical to assume he would have returned than to assume he would gain a resistance in a matter of seconds. The latter seems to be a stretch imo.

This ^ comment was for both cases, either we treat hakai as simple matter destruction or EE.
 
If hakai exists in the manga as well, I don't mind listing mid-godly Regenerationn for manga Zamasu.
 
AKM sama said:
Only problem is that he was not resisting it. The technique was visibly shown to be working and the only thing Zamasu could do was pull a cheap trick for Goku to stop.
Click to expand...
On his body yes, where is the actual hard evidence of the technique actually erasing his soul and not just his physical body? You cannot assume his soul would've been destroyed by the technique.
 
Just to be clear, you are assuming that manga hakai is EE right?

If that's the case, you are assuming the technique won't work as it is described to work without any evidence. Zamasu's immortality is due to his regen. When it's stated that hakai won't kill immortals, it's because it can't get past their immortality/Regenerationn. It doesn't mean the immortals somehow gain a resistance to soul destruction.
 
AKM sama said:
If that's the case, you are assuming the technique won't work as it is described to work without any evidence. Zamasu's immortality is due to his regen. When it's stated that hakai won't kill immortals, it's because it can't get past their immortality/Regenerationn. It doesn't mean the immortals somehow gain a resistance to soul destruction.
Click to expand...
The mechanics of hakai are never properly elaborated upon in the manga to begin with so no one is forced to assume it will always erase the soul of the target.

Zamasu's immortality being regen based means nothing because Beerus never actually specifies why he'd be unable to kill him in the first place, he doesn't say "his soul would just regenerate from nothing even after being erased", in fact his statement is very broad, he says he can't kill someone who is immortal in general, should we go and assume that every character who is stated to be immortal from that point on to have mid-godly regen?
 
Obviously not if the being is already resistant to the technique and depends on the kind of immortality too.

In this case however, it's evident that the technique was working on Zamasu without him showing any sign of any kind of resistance. And if a technique works on someone, it is generally assumed to be fully functioning in all its aspects. You need hard evidence to support your "one-aspect-of-it-was-working-but-the-other-was-not" stance.
 
I think that it makes sense to treat Hakai as EE in the manga just like anime, given Beerus statement that he can erase Frieza's body and soul at that moment, so he cannot even be resurrected, which is virtually the same result and explanation as in the anime. And the fact it is highly consistent of every other portrayal of Hakai in the franchise to treat it as such.

And yes Hakai exists in manga.

So since Ant and several others are OK with adding it, I think we can conclude on that note if somebody wants to add it or briefly open the page so I can.
 
I will open the page then. Tell me here when you are done.
 
Because Beerus' hakai not being able to finish off manga zamasu is half of the reason Zamasu is getting mid-godly

Goku uses the hakai in the manga
 
yes. This is true. Goku has a novice level of Hakai in manga.

Also Zamasu does have Goku's body from the beginning of the arc, and Goku knew hakai before eh fought Zaasu, and Zamasu has seen the technique used by Goku on him, and stated he can erase things from existence to, so he should also have it listed as likely usable, like we do for Kaioken and Solar flare imo.

https://imgur.com/a/cLJELJB
 
Okay. I did not know that. If so, he should get existence erasure, yes.
 
I always thought this was just hakai not having universal range lol (if you're talkin about merged zamasu because I am kinda lost)
 
If you wanna briefly open the two profiles I can add in EE for hakai, and likely EE for Zamasu due to being able to do the same thing as Goku and knowing the technique to.

Heres a pic to use for it to be linked on Goku btw. https://imgur.com/a/8Pco56K
 
Well we are saying Goku uses Hakai so should have EE, and Zamasu also has Goku's body from after he learned it, and theoretically all his moves, and has even seen goku use hakai, and has stated he can wipe things from existence as well, so he can most likely use it as well.
 
Alright. I will open the profiles.
 
Wait Fusion Zamasu shouldn't have Hakai, he stole Goku's body before he even learned that.
 
OK done. And Goku learned it literally from seeing it used once, and Zamasu stole his body from the beginning of the arc that had that same level of power and adaptability, has seen it used by Goku, and states he can wipe things from existence to, so saying he could use it to after goku uses it on him is realistic.
 
"No." is not a argument. He literally has the same powers and adaptability as Goku who learned the skill after seeing it once, and has stated he can wipe things from existence, so there is no reason to believe he can't use it to.

We gave him all of Goku's other moves even if he didn't use them so this should be no different, especially since he has seen it and implied he could do it when he said he can wipe things from existence.
 
Hakai was a surprise for Zamasu. If Zamasu knew Hakai from the very beginning he wouldnt have been surprised by Goku pulling it out of thin air. Besides, he never used it.
 
It was a surprise, but like I said, after it is used on him it applies, since Goku learned it by seeing it once to. There is virtually no time lapse where Goku trains from when Goku saw it to when he uses it. He is just fighting Black and Zamasu after he sees it multiple times, and he didn't even want to use it either thinking he would never use it, further showing he pulled it out after seeing it once. Zamasu who has the same adaptability could logically do the same and has said he can wipe people and things from existance. We gave him all Goku's other moves even when he didn't see them, so this is a no brainer to give him one he saw and survived. Refusing to give him Hakai which he actually saw first hand, and accepting kaioken, solar flare etc. would be double standards.
 
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