Yugi Moto vs Tzeentch via Children's Card Game!

[CNBA3]

This thread is as follows, can Yugi Moto, with the Pharaoh and his friends defeat the Architect of Fate Tzeentch in a Children's Card Game?

Can the being who represents all things deceitful and hopeful defeat the "Heart of the Cards"?

The same phenomenon which quantum computers, probability scenarios can't even calculate?

GO!

 

[Imaginym]

This thread is as follows, can Yugi Moto, with the Pharaoh and his friends defeat the Architect of Fate Tzeentch in a Children's Card Game?

Can the being who represents all things deceitful and hopeful defeat the "Heart of the Cards"?

The same phenomenon which quantum computers, probability scenarios can't even calculate?

GO!

Are they allowed to cheat?

Can they interfere with each other's cheating?
Even a Reality-Restricted Avatar has Telepathy, Causality & Fate Manipulation & Transmutation.

Yugi/Atem could try to Mind Shuffle, controlling fate/destiny to topdeck whatever he needs, but Tzeentch could probably just one-up both Pegasus AND Yuma by reading the minds of Yugi & Atem both at once, while also literally making up every card he/it plays.

Heck, if we really wanna be trolly, Tzeentch does want the maximum change & while leaving Yugi's gamestate untouched in favour of only changing its deck & field a little is majorly small time, Tzeentch could pull something like Magic: The Gathering's Four Horsemen deck:

Post on Tumblr about "Why isn't the Four Horsemen Combo a Loop like why".

To explain here:

Spoiler: Explanation

1. MtG has a creature called Narcomoeba, which, when put from deck/library into GY, can be put into play. MtG deckbuilding rules allow 4 of a kind, so 4 of these.

2. Basalt Monolith, doesn't untap during its controller's Untap Step -Atypical; Untapping during controller's Untap Step is the norm- but can be Untapped by paying 3 Mana. It can also be tapped to generate 3 Mana. Mana disappears at the end of a Phase/Step, IIRC, so it's NORMALLY not useful without an external means to untap it.... Normally, tapping something for 3 Mana & then spending all that on untapping the same thing is a waste of time, even as repeatable as Basalt Monolith's time wasting is.

3. Mesmeric Orb makes it so that if a permanent -Like an artifact, like, say, Basalt Monolith- becomes tapped, its controller puts the top card of their deck into their GY.
4. Blasting Station, for the cost of Tapping it & sacrificing a creature, deals 1 damage to target creature or player. It can Untap itself when a creature enters play.

5. Sharuum the Hegemon is a Creature, that when it enters play, lets its controller put an artifact -Like Blasting Station!- into play!

6. Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, when put into a GY from anywhere, its owner shuffles their GY into their deck.

7. Dread Return is a Sorcery (Same timing restrictions as a Normal Spell, basically.) that can be cast from the GY without mana, but it exiles itself (Removes itself from the game, like banishing in YGO.) if this alternate means of use is used. But good news, that 1 free casting of it is all that'll be needed!


All these pieces mean you can Tap Basalt Monolith to produce the mana to untap Basalt Monolith over & over again, & each time, Mesmeric Orb will put your deck's top card into your GY!
Once you've milled Narcomoebas, & Blasting Station, thus putting them into play, they can be used to pay for Sharuum's Dread Return, & a 4th Narcomoeba will pay for Blasting Station's cost to do damage! Sure Blasting Station will be tapped, but it untaps for free when another creature -like a Narcomoeba!- shows up!
Mill Emrakul from your deck, it'll refill & thus, so will the supply of Narcomoebas; Infinite ammo!

....Problem is this loop is non-deterministic. Yeah. Remember that part about shuffling your deck? RANDOMLY.
Yeah I'm sure the God of change will LOVE a different deck order each time even if it has to avoid the few possible "failure state" combinations to be avoided.

This is why despite it being TECHNICALLY & THEORETICALLY viable in Legacy (1 of MtG's oldest, most unrestricted & most powerful formats.), the "Four Horsemen" deck showcasing this combo is awful; Since it's non-deterministic due to the shuffled deck, the outcome of each instance of the loop is somewhat random, & thus EACH instance of the loop must be done MANUALLY.

Spoiler: Procedural Problems

So a Four Horsemen deck on a successful run spends most of its match time putting the top card of its deck into the discard pile, while checking for Narcomoebas (4 out of a deck that starts at 60!), & doing said milling ONE card at a time, every so often sacrificing 1 of the jellyfish to the Blasting Station, turning it horizontal only to turn it vertical once they get another, & then milling until it hits Emrakul so it can put the whole deck pile back together & then shuffling it all randomly.

It also has to pray it doesn't hit Emrakul BEFORE getting the initial Dread Return, plus 3 Narcomoebas & Sharuum the Hegemon into the GY; Emmy's GY shuffle is mandatory & this happening early resets all that progress setting up the GY for the combo.

Even with only 20 starting life, 4 Narcomoebas & favorable placement of Emrakul (Or the other pieces like Sharuum & Blasting Station, plus mana base to be able to cast Basalt Monolith & Mesmeric Orb in the first place.) means it still takes multiple iterations to blast away all TWENTY LIFE POINTS.

So I think you can understand why this deck often gets disqualified for slow play in tournaments, right, lol?

But Yugi & Tzeentch aren't in a tournament with a time limit!
....& if they were, the changing of the time limit as it counts down would empower Tzeentch & its Avatar, as any change does, lol.

So Tzeentch has all the time in the world it takes to pull off this non-deterministic, slow-as-molasses loop as many times as it takes to chip away Yugi's 4000 LP; With the right hand, luck/shuffling, it can be done all in a single turn!
& since Transmutation is on the table, turning some or all of its cards into MtG cards isn't out of the question. XD

"To gain audience with the hegemon, one must bring a riddle she has not heard."

Perhaps a good riddle for her is:
"How many times must Tzeentch's Avatar shuffle its deck for The Four Horsemen to run the Blasting Station enough to wipe out Yugi's 4,000 Life Points?"
Bet she's never heard a riddle like THAT before, freaking smart-aleck Sphinx.

 

[CNBA3]

Are they allowed to cheat?

Can they interfere with each other's cheating?
Even a Reality-Restricted Avatar has Telepathy, Causality & Fate Manipulation & Transmutation.

Yugi/Atem could try to Mind Shuffle, controlling fate/destiny to topdeck whatever he needs, but Tzeentch could probably just one-up both Pegasus AND Yuma by reading the minds of Yugi & Atem both at once, while also literally making up every card he/it plays.

Heck, if we really wanna be trolly, Tzeentch does want the maximum change & while leaving Yugi's gamestate untouched in favour of only changing its deck & field a little is majorly small time, Tzeentch could pull something like Magic: The Gathering's Four Horsemen deck:

Post on Tumblr about "Why isn't the Four Horsemen Combo a Loop like why".

To explain here:

Spoiler: Explanation

1. MtG has a creature called Narcomoeba, which, when put from deck/library into GY, can be put into play. MtG deckbuilding rules allow 4 of a kind, so 4 of these.

2. Basalt Monolith, doesn't untap during its controller's Untap Step -Atypical; Untapping during controller's Untap Step is the norm- but can be Untapped by paying 3 Mana. It can also be tapped by paying 3 Mana. Mana disappears at the end of a Phase/Step, IIRC, so it's NORMALLY not useful without an external means to untap it.... Normally, tapping something for 3 Mana & then spending all that is a waste of time, even as repeatable as Basalt Monolith's time wasting is.

3. Mesmeric Orb makes it so that if a permanent -Like an artifact, like, say, Basalt Monolith- becomes tapped, its controller puts the top card of their deck into their GY.
4. Blasting Station, for the cost of Tapping it & sacrificing a creature, deals 1 damage to target creature or player. It can Untap itself when a creature enters play.

5. Sharuum the Hegemon is a Creature, that when it enters play, lets its controller put an artifact -Like Blasting Station!- into play!

6. Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, when put into a GY from anywhere, its owner shuffles their GY into their deck.

7. Dread Return is a Sorcery (Same timing restrictions as a Normal Spell, basically.) that can be cast from the GY without mana, but it exiles itself (Removes itself from the game, like banishing in YGO.) if this alternate means of use is used. But good news, that 1 free casting of it is all that'll be needed!


All these pieces mean you can Tap Basalt Monolith to produce the mana to untap Basalt Monolith over & over again, & each time, Mesmeric Orb will put your deck's top card into your GY!
Once you've milled Narcomoebas, & Blasting Station, thus putting them into play, they can be used to pay for Sharuum's Dread Return, & a 4th Narcomoeba will pay for Blasting Station's cost to do damage! Sure Blasting Station will be tapped, but it untaps for free when another creature -like a Narcomoeba!- shows up!
Mill Emrakul from your deck, it'll refail & thus, so will the supply of Narcomoebas; Infinite ammo!

....Problem is this loop is non-deterministic. Yeah. Remember that part about shuffling your deck? RANDOMLY.
Yeah I'm sure the God of change will LOVE a different deck order each time even if it has to avoid the few possible "failure state" combinations to be avoided.

This is why despite it being TECHNICALLY & THEORETICALLY viable in Legacy (1 of MtG's oldest, unrestricted & most powerful formats.), the "Four Horsemen" deck showcasing this combo is awful; Since it's non-deterministic due to the shuffled deck, the outcome of each instance of the loop is somewhat random, & thus EACH instance of the loop must be done MANUALLY.

Spoiler: Procedural Problems

So a Four Horsemen deck on a successful run spends most of its match time putting the top card of its deck into the discard pile, while checking for Narcomoebas (4 out of a deck that starts at 60!), & doing said milling ONE card at a time, every so often sacrificing 1 of the jellyfish to the Blasting Station, turning it horizontal only to turn it vertical once they get another, & then milling until it hits Emrakul so it can put the whole deck pile back together & then shuffling it all randomly.

It also has to pray it doesn't hit Emrakul BEFORE getting the initial Dread Return, plus 3 Narcomoebas & Sharuum the Hegemon into the GY; Emmy's GY shuffle is mandatory & this happening early resets all that progress setting up the GY for the combo.

Even with only 20 starting life, 4 Narcomoebas & favorable placement of Emrakul (Or the other pieces like Sharuum & Blasting Station, plus mana base to be able to cast Basalt Monolith & Mesmeric Orb in the first place.) means it still takes multiple iterations to blast away all TWENTY LIFE POINTS.

So I think you can understand why this deck often gets disqualified for slow play in tournaments, right, lol?

But Yugi & Tzeentch aren't in a tournament with a time limit!
....& if they were, the changing of the time limit as it counts down would empower Tzeentch & its Avatar, as any change does, lol.

So Tzeentch has all the time in the world it takes to pull off this non-deterministic, slow-as-molasses loop as many times as it takes to chip away Yugi's 4000 LP; With the right hand, luck/shuffling, it can be done all in a single turn!
& since Transmutation is on the table, turning some or all of its cards into MtG cards isn't out of the question. XD

"To gain audience with the hegemon, one must bring a riddle she has not heard."

Perhaps a good riddle for her is:
"How many times must Tzeentch's Avatar shuffle its deck for The Four Horsemen to run the Blasting Station enough to wipe out Yugi's 4,000 Life Points?"
Bet she's never heard a riddle like THAT before, freaking smart-aleck Sphinx.

I guess to make it simple, it is just solely based on the yugioh card games, They use whatever mind fuckery they can for their card game shenanigans including filler arcs and movies for Yugi/Yami.

 

[SomaKing13]

I guess to make it simple, it is just solely based on the yugioh card games, They use whatever mind fuckery they can for their card game shenanigans including filler arcs and movies for Yugi/Yami.

I feel like that still just means Tzeentch obliterates in a card game, he can not only see into literally every future but has his pick of the litter to choose what happens in each, can separate Yugi and Yami into seperate players, create duplicates of them to duel in his stead, read their minds simultanously (mind shuffling won't work on him like with pegasus), he can alter both his deck and their decks to whatever he wants, ala exodia being his starting hand, can make it so all of their attack cards have zero atk, def and effects, etc and all have it work within the rules as he simply changes the rules of Yugioh on a conceptual level. The only way he'd lose is for him to actually choose to lose because it was always actually his plan to lose. It'd be like duelling someone who is a grandmaster of every single game known across the multiverse, and then also have them have every single Millenium item and give them access to the entirety of every card to have ever existed and let him hand pick it and his opponents deck, Yugi and Yami are good but they are not Tzeentch.

 

[CNBA3]

I feel like that still just means Tzeentch obliterates in a card game, he can not only see into literally every future but has his pick of the litter to choose what happens in each, can separate Yugi and Yami into seperate players, create duplicates of them to duel in his stead, read their minds simultanously (mind shuffling won't work on him like with pegasus), he can alter both his deck and their decks to whatever he wants, ala exodia being his starting hand, can make it so all of their attack cards have zero atk, def and effects, etc and all have it work within the rules as he simply changes the rules of Yugioh on a conceptual level. The only way he'd lose is for him to actually choose to lose because it was always actually his plan to lose. It'd be like duelling someone who is a grandmaster of every single game known across the multiverse, and then also have them have every single Millenium item and give them access to the entirety of every card to have ever existed and let him hand pick it and his opponents deck, Yugi and Yami are good but they are not Tzeentch.

Thank makes sense.