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Yu-Gi-Oh GX the 12 dimensions

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Strym

I got your point, I'm just clarifying it'd be more accurate to compare it to the cosmology of Universe 7 rather than the whole multiverse.

Zencha

1. I know it's not the full size of the original World of Darkness, but its this "Layer of Darkness" (The name is being used to seperate between the two) that consumed the other dimensions. Hence for scaling purposes, it's bigger than the dimensions that it's consumed.
2. Speed isn't a part of this argument. Just the fact that the size of the Layer of Darkness is no bigger than Earth despite having consumed the other dimensions by now.

Uh, did you check the scan of the Layer being compared to the Earth? It's literally the exact same size hence why it's the exact same situation.

Alonik

Yeah, I'm just clarifying the Waking the Dragons part as the Duel Monster Spirit World is used interchangeably for the other 11 dimensions, another Spirit World in 5Ds, and of course the dimension from season 4 in og Yugioh.
 
It seems your argument is that we must limit the scope of various extradimensional spaces because they fit within our 3d solar system. Except, that is just not how extradimensional spaces work, because they have at least one spatial dimension more than the 3d solar system that they can exist in, or they wouldn't be extradimensional, they would just be a 3d region of space.

Having the World of Darkness exist within the solar system, while also existing in other spatial regions, means that it is extra-dimensional. This is the same as saying that the Tardis exists within a room, thus the Tardis can not be larger than that room. Extradimensional spaces can be bigger on the inside.
 
SomebodyData said:
1. I know it's not the full size of the original World of Darkness, but its this "Layer of Darkness" (The name is being used to seperate between the two) that consumed the other dimensions. Hence for scaling purposes, it's bigger than the dimensions that it's consumed.
2. Speed isn't a part of this argument. Just the fact that the size of the Layer of Darkness is no bigger than Earth despite having consumed the other dimensions by now.
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No i don't see how that means that the darkness here is bigger than the dimensions and honestly it seems headcanonish to me and i would like you to elaborate more on that
From what i see the layer of darkness is used to distinguish this darkness from the others so i think it means that in every dimension a layer of darkness appears at first it's small at first but then devours the whole dimensions it's prefectly fits with how darkness is portayed
Also just Because it's the same size as earth doesn't really matter since it just arrived there and i think it's really dishonest to say that darkness would just consume earth and there are simillar cases like lucemon's dark area being earth like in size so the space inside could be way bigger than it looks outside
SomebodyData said:
Uh, did you check the scan of the Layer being compared to the Earth? It's literally the exact same size hence why it's the exact same situation.
Click to expand...
Like i said that's darkness beggining to devour the main universe and it first started with earth for obvious reasons
 
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Alonik said:
By the way, the Duel Monster Spirit World has already been proven up there to be infinitely above the human world, so it is not just a planet, it is already larger than the structure of current space and time.

The scalling of the twelve dimensions of the universe are already tier 1, and any assumption based on a few frames is vague.
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Pretty sure Azazoth when he was still here gave a convincingly strong counter argument against this when this was brought up earlier. Aside from the fact that normal humans naturally exist in these dimensions.

Also im not seeing how this proves infinite superiority. All it says is that the frequency will "amplify infinitely". However that is supposed to be taken, how does this equate to infinite superiority?
 
I don't get this argument that humans can't exist within a 4d+ structure. Humans are perfectly capable of existing within 4d+ structures, because 4d+ structures contain 3d structures. As far as I know, there is nothing inherently dangerous about additional spatial dimensions though some settings may have that as a feature of that setting.
 
Leotamer said:
I don't get this argument that humans can't exist within a 4d+ structure. Humans are perfectly capable of existing within 4d+ structures, because 4d+ structures contain 3d structures.
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Uh, since when was what I bolded out ever a thing here? And this isn't the first time this argument has come up. Any higher dimension that has humans existing within it is counted as an inconsistency against the higher dimension, generally speaking.
 
Apparently if you don't post for long enough you stop getting notifications, so here ya go. I'm still watching the thread.
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ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Pretty sure Azazoth when he was still here gave a convincingly strong counter argument against this when this was brought up earlier. Aside from the fact that normal humans naturally exist in these dimensions.

Also im not seeing how this proves infinite superiority. All it says is that the frequency will "amplify infinitely". However that is supposed to be taken, how does this equate to infinite superiority?
Click to expand...
There's alot of context missing here kaiba in order to accend to a higher dimension he needs to amp his counsessiousness infinitely counsessiousness in yugioh is literally power/Ba and even in said movie it's stated that the collective consciousness is what makes up the universe and stops it from falling apart
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Pretty sure Azazoth when he was still here gave a convincingly strong counter argument against this when this was brought up earlier. Aside from the fact that normal humans naturally exist in these dimensions.
Click to expand...
I don't know the counter, and normal monsters existing there don't change much, after all any normal monster is already part of the Spirit World, all dueling monsters are part of the spirit world.

Also im not seeing how this proves infinite superiority. All it says is that the frequency will "amplify infinitely". However that is supposed to be taken, how does this equate to infinite superiority?
Click to expand...

It is in the context, it is an infinite ascension of consciousness into a higher dimension. Without infinite ascension they cannot achieve that higher dimension i.e. infinite superiority
 
Also the whole humans can go there is really questionable since they don't go there by accending/transcending etc they're just teleported there
 
Alonik said:
I don't know the counter, and normal monsters existing there don't change much, after all any normal monster is already part of the Spirit World, all dueling monsters are part of the spirit world.
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Dude, where did you monsters from? I said normal HUMANS.
 
Humans only accessed the Spirit World via teleportation, and Atem himself could only access it through the Millennium Puzzle
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Dude, where did you monsters from? I said normal HUMANS.
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Yes you are right, but where are there humans who have not been ascended/teleported there existing in the Spirit World? Because if you are talking about humanoids there, they are still Duel Monster, there are countless monster spirits that are humanoids. This is why I even replied to your comment as monster, because there are no humans from the mortal world existing there unless they have ascended to the status of the spirit world.

Could name some normal human from the mortal plane that exists in the spirit world to support your point?
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Uh, since when was what I bolded out ever a thing here? And this isn't the first time this argument has come up. Any higher dimension that has humans existing within it is counted as an inconsistency against the higher dimension, generally speaking.
Click to expand...
they can though? a human can still exist in our universe which we accept to be a 4D structure it is just that their size in 4D is 0, otherwise just existing in a higher D space could grant ap
 
You can put a 2d object into a 3d space. You can put a 3d object into a 4d space. The simple answer to why they can exist within the spirit world is because there are 3d spaces within the spirit world, which in its totality, has higher spatial dimensions. Not only is this not contradictory, it follows. A 4d space is just an infinite number of 3d spaces stacked on top of each other on a 4th spatial axis. We normal humans just either don't have that 4th spatial axis, or we are unable to perceive it.
 
deonment said:
they can though? a human can still exist in our universe which we accept to be a 4D structure it is just that their size in 4D is 0
Click to expand...
Our universe isn't treated as 4-D last I checked. Either way, again, humans existing in a higher dimension is accepted as an inconsistency against any higher dimension on this site, so your better off making a thread for more clarification on this.
 
Alonik said:
Could name some normal human from the mortal plane that exists in the spirit world to support your point?
Click to expand...
No Because there are none and even then humans are unironically the god tiers of the verse they created the spirit world and it's entirety from their power/duel energy/Ba they created zorc from just a small village being killed and from their anger they created the orichalcos god they amp darkness and the light of destruction caused zero reverse from their feelings they made ener-d and made it have infinite energy and destroy the world in process they made fodder monsters in the spirit world and when said fodders got killed their anger created super poly the pranas have the power to control space and time by using the collective unconscious and it's just the unconscious of normal humans
 
@Leotamer Our world is only 3D spatially, time is not spatial.


ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Our universe isn't treated as 4-D last I checked. Either way, again, humans existing in a higher dimension is accepted as an inconsistency against any higher dimension on this site, so your better off making a thread for more clarification on this.
Click to expand...
This is totally untrue, humans existing in a higher dimension is no standard for presenting inconsistency in higher dimensionality. The only thing that would be an inconsistency is if the higher dimensions were not portrayed as infinitely higher, which is not the case here.

Just quoting some of the verses and characters that contradict the data presented by Kukui;
  • Umineko; A lot of the characters ascend or are teleported to higher dimensions, relatively speaking the pieces of the human world that go to higher dimensional planes for example in episode 5.
  • DC Comics; There are several characters, and the most common example is Superman who goes to the Sphere of the Gods through teleports
  • Marvel; Normal human characters who have powers to access higher dimensions, for example Miss America, or characters being teleported by others as seen several times in Thor or Fantastic Four comics, or even others.
Anyway, I could make a big list, human existing in a higher dimension does not disqualify the dimension from being infinitely higher, what disqualifies is only the representation and difference from higher to lower planes.
 
Zencha9 said:
No Because there are none and even then humans are unironically the god tiers of the verse they created the spirit world and it's entirety from their power/duel energy/Ba they created zorc from just a small village being killed and from their anger they created the orichalcos god they amp darkness and the light of destruction caused zero reverse from their feelings they made ener-d and made it have infinite energy and destroy the world in process they made fodder monsters in the spirit world and when said fodders got killed their anger created super poly the pranas have the power to control space and time by using the collective unconscious and it's just the unconscious of normal humans
Click to expand...
This was brought up in the past as well i'm pretty sure, and its sort've ridiculous to assume the humans would have higher-D power without something explicitly proving it.
 
The Spirit World being shaped through humanity's collective unconscious does not mean that the potential is from the mortal plane by the way, it's just the order of growth of the creation itself.
 
Alonik said:
@Leotamer Our world is only 3D spatially, time is not spatial.



This is totally untrue, humans existing in a higher dimension is no standard for presenting inconsistency in higher dimensionality.
Click to expand...
It is, and this has been brought up for other threads before you try naming verses to discredit my point. Hell, STRYM and SomebodyData literally brought this up a few pages earlier in this one.


Alonik said:
The only thing that would be an inconsistency is if the higher dimensions were not portrayed as infinitely higher, which is not the case here.

Just quoting some of the verses and characters that contradict the data presented by Kukui;
  • Umineko; A lot of the characters ascend or are teleported to higher dimensions, relatively speaking the pieces of the human world that go to higher dimensional planes for example in episode 5.
  • DC Comics; There are several characters, and the most common example is Superman who goes to the Sphere of the Gods through teleports
  • Marvel; Normal human characters who have powers to access higher dimensions, for example Miss America, or characters being teleported by others as seen several times in Thor or Fantastic Four comics, or even others.
Anyway, I could make a big list, human existing in a higher dimension does not disqualify the dimension from being infinitely higher, what disqualifies is only the representation and difference from higher to lower planes.
Click to expand...
And again, your wrong. We do treat it as an inconsistency for higher d worlds as reiterated by 2 people here besides myself, 1 of which is a staff member. And I will create a Q&A thread if need be to get another confirmation.

Also, using those examples when none of those examples are actual ordinary people is a pretty bad take to use here against me.
 
I was ignoring 4d space-time because I was focusing only on the spatial component.

However, going to actually review the tiers (normally that isn't the part that interests me.), I feel like the strongest argument at least for GX is Low C-1, defined as Low Complex Multiverse level: Characters who can affect, create and/or destroy the entirety of spaces whose size corresponds to one to two higher levels of infinity greater than a standard universal model (Low 2-C structures, in plain English.) In terms of "dimensional" scale, this can be equated to 5 and 6-dimensional real coordinate spaces (R ^ 5 to R ^ 6)

It is the most conservative estimate. There is regular 4d space-time + a space between spaces, IE, a fourth spatial dimension. There is your 5-dimensional real coordinate spaces.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
This was brought up in the past as well i'm pretty sure, and its sort've ridiculous to assume the humans would have higher-D power without something explicitly proving it.
Click to expand...
Their power created Higher D spaces and gods i think that is as blatant as it gets
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
It is, and this has been brought up for other threads before you try naming verses to discredit my point. Hell, STRYM and SomebodyData literally brought this up a few pages earlier in this one.
Click to expand...
The only person who even brought it up was @SomebodyData, and just because he did doesn't mean it's right. I repeat again, a human going to a higher dimension, or else living in it does not show inconsistency, what shows the inconsistency is not being portrayed as infinitely higher.

And again, your wrong. We do treat it as an inconsistency for higher d worlds as reiterated by 2 people here besides myself, 1 of which is a staff member. And I will create a Q&A thread if need be to get another confirmation.

ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Also, using those examples when none of those examples are actual ordinary people is a pretty bad take to use here against me.
Click to expand...

They are normal people yes when the subject here is to exist in a mortal layer. Miss America or Superman are just superhumans, that doesn't differentiate them geometrically from an ordinary human, plus the other mention, such as the human piece (Ushiromiya Family and normal people for example, Doctor Nanjo) in Umineko, are totally human with no power at all. In any case, your argument to differentiate a superhuman with an ordinary human is still baseless, since none of these reasons point to geometric differentiation. Superman is not going to be 4D because he is a Kryptonian instead of an Earthling, for example.

I recommend that you make a thread on Q&A as you thought.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Done so
Click to expand...
Nice, you just missed putting the situation of the post; humans being teleported to higher dimensions by a force beyond their own.

If you put that in, it will portray the reality of the subject. Because specifying a 3-D human existing in a larger space without any form that took him there is outside the point of the post btw.
 
Alonik said:
Nice, you just missed putting the situation of the post; humans being teleported to higher dimensions by a force beyond their own.

If you put that in, it will portray the reality of the subject. Because specifying a 3-D human existing in a larger space without any form that took him there is outside the point of the post btw.
Click to expand...
And by humans, I mean people without some explicit Higher-D ability that makes them special exceptions to do Higher-D stuff.
 
Still irrelevant to the actual topic of the discussion, on whether or not humans existing in a higher dimensioning general is treated as any kind of inconsistency against said dimension period.

The thread will get clarification on that.
 
Your question has been answered, and as I said it varies from context to context, and the portrayal of that geometric point to the lower ones. Even, this scan here that has nothing to do with Yu-Gi-Oh, already shows what I had already said in my previous points.
 
And if it wasn't obvious, id much rather Ultima to actually GIVE a comment on the matter instead of just liking a comment that looks well constructed.
 
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