YouTube Profiles Quality Control Discussion (Staff Only)

[Yobo_Blue]

Are we really going to think that we, some wiki run by a bunch of nerds, can suddenly perfectly extricate what is and isn't a actual fictional verse? Obviously our standards are not going to be perfect, but the ones we have shouldn't be skirted around or made into double standards.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

@Dargoo

Again, using that definition is the worst way to go, because including fictional verses characters written by a fan as automatic fan fiction is not only vague, but includes many, many established verses.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Are we really going to think that we, some wiki run by a bunch of nerds, can suddenly perfectly extricate what is and isn't a actual fictional verse? Obviously our standards are not going to be perfect

"Our standards can't be perfect" is not an argument against "our standards can be improved".

 

[Yobo_Blue]

"Our standards can't be perfect" is not an argument against "our standards can be improved".

Unfortunately, that's not my argument. My argument is that our standards cannot under any circumstances, be double standards, which under your interpretation would be. I'm all for improvement, but this is degradation.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Speaking of, let's throw this on the OP and (hopefully) delete it.

This is YOUTUBE profiles only though.

 

[Crabwhale]

Are we really going to think that we, some wiki run by a bunch of nerds, can suddenly perfectly extricate what is and isn't a actual fictional verse? Obviously our standards are not going to be perfect, but the ones we have shouldn't be skirted around or made into double standards.

Not arguing for either side here, but that argument is bullshit.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Not arguing for either side here, but that argument is bullshit.

Can you at least explain why?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Unfortunately, that's not my argument. My argument is that our standards cannot under any circumstances, be double standards, which under your interpretation would be. I'm all for improvement, but this is degradation.

How exactly are they double standards?

I'm looking at the results and additudes these profiles have and will perpetuate, which clearly isn't healthy for the site as a whole. Our site's turning into a joke.

What's the use of even having standards if they're going to be weaved around to make profiles that clearly shouldn't be allowed on the site, given the attitudes and sentiments expressed on our rules?

This isn't even improvement, it's an attempt to actually apply the standards we have instead of giving outs for people to just work around them

On another note, the AVGN and Nostalgia Critic profiles don't even fall under this debate; they're just fanfiction that occasionally has an original plot and should belong on FC/OC regardless of how we treat fringe youtube persona profiles.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Is it not fanfiction?

Namely because, historically, entertaining this argument only leads to people abusing loopholes in order to make the same exact situation that this thread presents happen again.

This shouldn't be an issue of "what's technically acceptable on the site", because that issue just makes people find reasons to make the popular profiles "technically acceptable".

I'm trying to prevent this. We don't want threads like that on the site, otherwise we would have just opened the floodgates to this, so obviously off-brand youtube personas shouldn't fit the bill either.

Speaking of, let's throw this on the OP and (hopefully) delete it.

Fanfiction is an extension to a fictional universe made by a fan. Nothing from Nostalgia Critic nor AVGN claims to be part of or add to the fictional universe at any point. Very little of anything, if any of it at all, mentioned on this thread is actually fanfiction.

The issues present with stuff like PewDiePie vs Tobuscus is itself an issue, yes, but singular instances like that don't suddenly make an entire category of pages invalid. Matches like that should probably not be allowed, that i can agree with, but that is an entirely separate issue from the profiles themselves.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

The actual standards we have as of now allow for the usage of YouTube

Besides, the other major argument was a slippery slope and blurred lines, which are obviously merely a symptom of fictions weirdness, nothing that can be controlled by us.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

How exactly are they double standards?

I'm looking at the results and additudes these profiles have and will perpetuate, which clearly isn't healthy for the site as a whole. Our site's turning into a joke.

What's the use of even having standards if they're going to be weaved around to make profiles that clearly shouldn't be allowed on the site, given the attitudes and sentiments expressed on our rules?

This isn't even improvement, it's an attempt to actually apply the standards we have instead of giving outs for people to just work around them

On another note, the AVGN and Nostalgia Critic profiles don't even fall under this debate; they're just fanfiction that occasionally has an original plot and should belong on FC/OC regardless of how we treat fringe youtube persona profiles.

We've always been a joke.

Thunder McQueen (JoJo's Bizarre Adventure), Reinhard Heydrich, etc, etc

It's hard to call us serious in any matter, really. This is a fun pastime, not a life or death issue.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Besides, by that logic having standards at all is a bad idea since people will just try to skirt around, which is obviously not necessarily the case.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Saying that AVGN and Nostalgia Critic only have occasional plot is a gross distortion of facts tbh. Multiple movies, video games, overarching storylines, plots derived from those. The reviewing is the main thing yeah, but the reviewing doesn't preclude them.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

This is YOUTUBE profiles only though.

Fair enough, although that thread's an example of the precedent these profiles set, anyways

The actual standards we have as of now allow for the usage of YouTube

Besides, the other major argument was a slippery slope and blurred lines, which are obviously merely a symptom of fictions weirdness, nothing that can be controlled by us.

And our 'actual standards' allow the usage of internet verses. Doesn't make, say, **** alright for the site. We can allow a medium, and also restrict and control what on that medium comes on to the site.

It's hard to make a slippery slope argument when we're already at the bottom of the slope to begin with. I'm arguing from hindsight; what these profiles have already done to and on the site, not what they will do on the site.

 

[Crabwhale]

Can you at least explain why?

That you try to use the "oh we're just a bunch of silly little people arguing chracter's strength" argument. Even if it wasn't intended to be taken that way, it very easily could give off the message of us not being justified in not keeping our standards up just because we're a bunch of "silly nerds".

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Actually, we do allow **** verses now, so...

Good thing I'm arguing against that, since that's part of Cal's reasoning.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

That you try to use the "oh we're just a bunch of silly little people arguing chracter's strength" argument. Even if it wasn't intended to be taken that way, it very easily could give off the message of us not being justified in not keeping our standards up just because we're a bunch of "silly nerds".

Straw man my dude. The argument used above was that we can't be a joke, and I was merely responding to that. It was only a extension of the preceding posts anyway.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

And besides, there are other ways of keeping standards without being staunchly trying to keep total seriousness and trying to preclude verses.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Actually, we do allow **** verses now, so...

In all fairness, that's still being discussed, although we still strictly don't allow "**** with a plot" iirc.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

In all fairness, that's still being discussed, although we still strictly don't allow "**** with a plot" iirc.

True, but that argument can't really be used if that's in flux.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Tobuscus shouldn't be considered cause it's a set game with plot, characters, consistency.

And Toby Turner the YouTuber. And Tobuscus. Are separate people. Just because Tobuscus has videos on YouTube, shouldn't mean his game version can't have a page. And most of Tobuscus videos on YouTube are just cartoons. Animated cartoons which do even connect.

I don't know what the Pewdiepie game is about. But if it's separate to his actual self as much as Tobuscus is, he should be fine too. As long as we don't start fusing into his real life YouTube and stuff. Just using the Game.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

True, but that argument can't really be used if that's in flux.

Not that it was essential for the point that I was making.

We still gatekeep on verses on a given medium regardless.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Sure, but that medium isn't based on what it's from, which is a big difference.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

I hate that we have to get this heated over a topic such as this. Not every single unofficial piece of content is fanfiction. Just take a look at SCP.

 

[Crabwhale]

And besides, there are other ways of keeping standards without being staunchly trying to keep total seriousness and trying to preclude verses.

I'm not saying we exude nothing but seriousness. But what you're suggesting is the other extreme.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I'm not saying we exude nothing but seriousness. But what you're suggesting is the other extreme.

I'm not sure you really understand what I'm suggesting tbh

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

And besides, there are other ways of keeping standards without being staunchly trying to keep total seriousness and trying to preclude verses.

Which is why I'm not arguing against comedy verses as a whole, but rather the small subset of that which is right on the line of what is and isn't acceptable on the site.

I hate that we have to get this heated over a topic such as this. Not every single unofficial piece of content is fanfiction. Just take a look at SCP.

Note how I didn't argue against every profile on the above list.

I'm moreso against personas and fan-works being on the site, as they dip more into the territory of JokesBattles and FC/OC respectively. I'm fine with original creations that don't straddle the line of what's acceptable.

Flashbacks to the three or four entire threads on SCP's validity on the site

Thunder McQueen (JoJo's Bizarre Adventure), Reinhard Heydrich, etc, etc

There's a difference between "serious character that was turned into a meme" and "a meme that is trying to be turned into a serious character",

 

[Crabwhale]

You literally said to not induce written standards a few messages back since people will just try to circumvent by exploiting loopholes.

Where's the logic in that?

 

[Yobo_Blue]

You literally said to not induce written standards a few messages back since people will just try to circumvent by exploiting loopholes.

Where's the logic in that?

I said that was what Dargoo's logic meant. I was arguing against that.

 

[Crabwhale]

Be less cryptic you spork

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Perhaps, but that subset isn't actually small

If the issue is whether or not it's serious, than that's even less of a argument, since only the former is actually not serious

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Be less cryptic you spork

It's not my fault this discussion is cursed

 

[Crabwhale]

Anyway, my two cents on this issue: basically agree with Dargy boi said except for Critic and Nerd.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Small on this site, I mean. Yeah, fan works and stage personas outnumber original works on YouTube by a fair amount, I'll give you that.

The issue isn't in whether or something is or isn't serious, though.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Eh, you kind of made it sound like it was.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Almost none of these profiles "straddle along the line" as you say. Most of these profile are perfectly acceptable with our regulations. As others have said, Avgn and Nostalgia Critic have many other aspects to their verse other than "lol we review stuff and have random shit". IIRC there was an entire short story about Nostalgia Critic coming back that was treated as a complete narrative and acknowledged previous events.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Small on this site, I mean.

TBF, it's small mostly because of the change being recent.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Almost none of these profiles "straddle along the line" as you say. Most of these profile are perfectly acceptable with our regulations. As others have said, Avgn and Nostalgia Critic have many other aspects to their verse other than "lol we review stuff and have random shit". IIRC there was an entire short story about Nostalgia Critic coming back that was treated as a complete narrative and acknowledged previous events.

Quite a few actually, and let's not forget that they aren't the only two peopl or series in their verse.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Yeah they also have well established characters in their verse like Santa Christ, The Devil, Evilina, Malcolm etc.

 

[Crabwhale]

It's not my fault this discussion is cursed

Craaaaawling in my hecc