Youmu Konpaku Vs Kanzaki Kaori

[Andykhang]

The gardener of the Netherworld fight against the living saint on Earth. Bloodlust, personality considered, no prep. Win when defeated, kill or can't move.

Round 1: Speed equalize

Round 2: Full strength, Kaori have resolve to kill.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Leaning on Kaori on speed equalized though it might be an issue if Youmu flies.

Round 2 is really debatable. Would lean on Youmu for speed and flight and the sheer amount of projectiles she can use

 

[Yamatohime]

Can Youmu utilize effects of her spellcards?

 

[Andykhang]

Half-agree with what you said here. Youmu's too honest for her own good, she lacked any move that have additional effect to stall, stop or trick the opponent. In the first round, she would be finding herself in a bind with Kaori's craftiness and her trap-laying style of swordplay.

But, power-wise, Youmu is more aggresive, and in combination with her projectile, more vicious. She's exactly the type to cut through the trap the opponent lay on to her. In round 2, that type of attack is made even more invincible with her speed and 3-dimensional fighting skill, ironically trapped her opponent in a barrage of slash and bullet.

 

[Andykhang]

Can Youmu utilize effects of her spellcards?

I think she can. People facing one of her move even feel that sound is gone, and color is lost just from her concentrating.

 

[Yamatohime]

So... She is still able to perform Rel+ slash.

 

[Andykhang]

Yeah, her slice could leave a mark on space too... did i pick a wrong match?

 

[Yamatohime]

Yeah, her slice could leave a mark on space too... did i pick a wrong match?

Probably Tenshi will be more funny match since she can't boost her speed via spellcards. But on other note... Her sword is crazy deal.

 

[DontTalk]

Round 2 is blitz.

Round 1 kanzaki has all advantages, given that youmu can not even fly (kanzaki has an anti-flight spell).

If you leave her relativistic slashes, or in other words relativistic close combat speed, it is hardly speed equal. Usually that would be assumed to be equalized in speed equal matches. (not much point in making it speed equal if all attacks still blitz the opponent and all) On that otehr hand Kanzakis durability is actually too high to be harmed by youmus slashes after current ranking.

 

[Andykhang]

^What's that anti-flight speed based off though? In Index-verse, some spell may not work if the meaning don't really affect that person.

 

[Yamatohime]

If you leave her relativistic slashes, or in other words relativistic close combat speed, it is hardly speed equal. Usually that would be assumed to be equalized in speed equal matches. (not much point in making it speed equal if all attacks still blitz the opponent and all) On that otehr hand Kanzakis durability is actually too high to be harmed by youmus slashes after current ranking.

Isn't it just her technique. Her normal slashes are equalized but her techniques are still with her.

 

[DontTalk]

"meaning" not really. I also don't remember an example in index were it could only be used on certain members of a religion or anything. If they have such restrictions they are usually spelled out clearly.

The spell works on every magic of every religion and cabal. It is the one that is the reason that no magician in index, no matter which kind of magic he utilizes, can fly in modern days. They all fear that the spell will shoot them down.

 

[DontTalk]

Techniques should be speed equalized as well usually. (at least those that are not lasers or other thinsg that naturally are independed of the otherwise speed of the character)

Else every speed equal match would just be "my projectile attack is a technique and hence has the same speed as before, so speed equal is meaningless since you can still not dodge or defend against any of my attacks".

But even if its not equalized, as long as she can not spam it (aka its not her close combat speed) kanzakis higher durability would make it so that she can tank.

 

[Yamatohime]

Techniques should be speed equalized as well usually. (at least those that are not lasers or other thinsg that naturally are independed of the otherwise speed of the character)

Well, Youmu has only two techniques with hinted speed (so it's constant speed for techinque). Others are equalized.

 

[Andykhang]

"meaning" not really. I also don't remember an example in index were it could only be used on certain members of a religion or anything. If they have such restrictions they are usually spelled out clearly.
The spell works on every magic of every religion and cabal. It is the one that is the reason that no magician in index, no matter which kind of magic he utilizes, can fly in modern days. They all fear that the spell will shoot them down.

Meaning can also mean it doesn't work if you're not human, like machine or half-phantom. I can't remember the specific though.

 

[Yamatohime]

Isn't Youmu's sword capable to cut spells.

 

[DontTalk]

@Andykhang: It doesn't work if your a bird. Specifically it will work as long as it's flight without wings.

Saying it has to be specified for evey species is pretty ridiculous if there is no indicator that it should have any relevance.

 

[Andykhang]

^More specific, she said if she concentrated enough, she could cut even the energy stream from where spell came from. So if she could cut that, probably the spell won't work anymore.

 

[DontTalk]

@Yamatohime: Can it? I don't recall that. Isn't really meaningful though against a spell that isn't a projectile or something that can not be located and cut (the anti-flight spells) or spells that can generally just be recast instantly.

 

[Yamatohime]

^More specific, she said if she concentrated enough, she could cut even the energy stream from where spell came from. So if she could cut that, probably the spell won't work anymore.

Actualy she can cut low level spells like... Any projectile danmaku spell with ease. It was even part of Ghost team special ability.

 

[Andykhang]

@Yamatohime: Can it? I don't recall that. Isn't really meaningful though against a spell that isn't a projectile or something that can not be located and cut (the anti-flight spells) or spells that can generally just be recast instantly.

"If I concentrate then I can even cut streams of energy.

It's meaningless no matter how many formations you set up."


Youmu against Patchouli, Touhou 10.5: Scarlet Weather Rhapsody.


And, like i said. That anti-flight spell would be so specialize for human (since almost all magician are human), it won't work against other type of species.

 

[LazyHunter]

I think it was mentioned somewhere once that the anti-flight spell targets any magical flight that could be viewed as pagan/heretical by Christianity, which is why it's stated that has practically banned magical flight to all magicians. It can be used against all types of magic no matter the religion/myth they come from since magic=heretical and other religion=pagan. From the story's source it would likely work on anything of demonic origins too.

But there are ways to bypas it. Large mobile weapons can have barriers on their walls to block the spell, and the 10th Saint is described as flying around the world. Someone who can fly naturally without magic would be immune. Angels would probably be immune, they normally have wings and they are as far as pagan/heretical you can be without being God.

Anti-flight spell doesn't have a source, it's just a short chant and anyone magically flying in the are is casted to the ground., and it's a very basic spell that can be quickly casted repeatedly.

Round 1 I'll give it to Kanzaki for better stats and more versatile techniques, plus anti-flight spell. Kanzaki could also hide herself with a people clearing field and prepare her own flight spell in peace, reversing the situation.

Round 2 Youmu blitzes Kanzaki hard.

 

[Yamatohime]

Ghosts can fly by their own nature...

 

[Andykhang]

And just because you can't destroy a mountain in one hit, doesn't mean that you cannot cut or gouch out the ground that it's made of. Youmu's slashing isn't mend to destroy everything though,so she could just cut or leave a mark on Kaori's body.

 

[LazyHunter]

Ghosts are supernatural. I meant that it wouldn't work in a bird, a dragon, or any other being that was using wings/jetpack to naturally fly, since that wouldn't be viewed as pagan/heretical by Christianity

 

[Yamatohime]

Ghosts are supernatural. I meant that it wouldn't work in a bird, a dragon, or any other being that was using wings/jetpack to naturally fly, since that wouldn't be viewed as pagan/heretical by Christianity

Ghosts are not realy supernatural - since they are souls.

EDIT: I think we should stop for awhile though. Since Tenshi could get durability upgrade and others could get minor AP upgrade to keep up with Tenshi.

 

[DontTalk]

The species assumption is ridiculous as I said. As you may notice there aren't any other species in index so of course their can be no feats involving that. Saying that there is some random exception because species never mentioned is on the level of saying that all of youmus techniques don't work because she never faced a mage using to arus magic system. Or that Kanzakis sword might be posionous to youma after all it is from a differet universe where things are different.

Without reason it is the very basic to assume that it will work as long as their is no reason it wouldn't.

And again good luck to youmu trying to cut down a spell that is invisible, intangible and instantanous. And also so basic that it can be spammed. Against an opponent whos spalls are more powerful than hers.

That aside did I mentioned that kanzaki, like most magicians in index, can fly? Its just that they don't, because the spell would shoot them down.

So given vastly superior power and durability kanzaki takes it either way.

Edit: Oh and youmu is half human either way, sooo...

 

[LazyHunter]

@Yamatohime Ghosts and souls are supernatural in Index. There's an entire group of magicians whose job is to hunt down demons, ghosts, wandering spirits, etc, anything that is not normal/natural to the world. Toaru magicians can clearly affect souls and create their own artificial souls, so being a ghost is in no way going to prevent Youmu from being affected by the spell.

@Andykhang But after equalizing speed you have an "Island level AP, Mountain Durability" characters versus an "at least City level" character. Youmu might be able to slowly accumulate damage on Kanzaki, but one Yuisen swing from Kanzaki would destroy her. And Youmu's page especifically mentions in her weaknesses that she's a half-baked imcomplete swordsman because she didn't finish her training under her master, while Kanzaki is a master swordswoman capable of fighting against three other master swordsman stronger than Youmu at the same time, so Kanzaki is also likely more skilled. The only advantage Youmu has here is speed and range, so equalizing speed and a starting range of 4 km makes the results obvious.

 

[DontTalk]

EDIT: I think we should stop for awhile though. Since Tenshi could get durability upgrade and others could get minor AP upgrade to keep up with Tenshi.

Where is a durability upgrade discussed? o_o

That aside since when does youmu scale to tenshi? (tip: she doesn't right now)

 

[Andykhang]

Well, Youmu have a win either way, so i'm sastifies. I guess experience-wise, Kanzaki would beat her huh? (even though they are pretty much in the same age range. In fact though, sword-skill wise, Youmu is more flashy and fundamentally faster than Kaori)

 

[Yamatohime]

That aside since when does youmu scale to tenshi? (tip: she doesn't right now)

She won't really scale to Tenshi but since Yukari failed to kill annoying Celestial... Tenshi will probably get some Dura upgrade. City level AP won't be even detected by Moon level durability... And all cast managed at least to push her back for the time being.

 

[Andykhang]

Again, the nature of a Danmaku match mean that Yukari won't be serious, no matter how mad she is.It's not like Yukari would plot to kill her again when she came back, since she's already won.

 

[Andykhang]

And okay, it seem like most people agree that Youmu would win in Round 2. Need more vote to make it official though

 

[DontTalk]

Actually a High Hypersonic to Massively Hypersonic character vs a relativistic character is pretty much a stomp thread (except there are special abiilties that justify it, but that is not given here.)

And stomp threads aren't listed given that they aren't notable. (Same the other way around btw. Speed equal of city level vs island level is also pretty much a stomp thread due to too high stat difference)

 

[Andykhang]

So this thread is close then... it's disappointing for my 1st vs thread.

 

[Andykhang]

Uh... can somebody closeed this thread already? It's painful looking at this thing die a heat death.