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Kaguya has literally zero way to beat Yhwach when Almighty is activated. The mustache can see all the future and picks the one where Kaguya loses. There is no Uryu Ishida and his PIS arrow to save her
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Yhwach vs Kaguya Otsutsuki (speed equalized)
- Thread starter Cropfist
- Start date
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There's also the point that neither Sasuke, Obito or Madara use the Rinnegan to soul suck someone in battle after Nagato. Meaning is useless or it can be resisted by fodder as well.
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All Hollows possess the ability to do that, that's what they feet on, since chapter 1. Given the fact that they can't do that to a Shinigami without defeating him first, means that it also applies to them. Otherwise they would had solo everyone eons ago.HokageMangaVox said:
You mean a hollow eating or devouring a soul reaper after defeating them? How would that be soul sucking? And if anything that would be very limited soul sucking since they would have to beat them first
@Perlious but he cant. He is only nigh omniscient, not fully omniscient. And nigh anything can literally be on any finite level you can think of as long as its lower than infinity. He wouldnt know what Kaguya's moves would be, especially when shes coming from a totally different verse. Being nigh omniscient doesnt mean you get that kind of knowledge. Also what do you mea before the battle even starts? Thats prep territory and that isnt allowed here.
And what makes Ywhach so special when it comes to this? Omniscience or nigh omniscience alone isnt that special for anyone....
Right and all of those abilities can only be activated via The Almighty. What happens if Kaguya soul steals him before he activates it?
Soul Stealing is not an NLF it bypasses durability and directly attacks you. its one of those haxes where if you dont have resistance to it, it will work on you.
And I love how your accusing me of wank when your not only absuing something that may be legit, but is also an NLF, your acting as if Ywhach has omniscience when he doesnt and that is anything special than anyone elses. And im a bigger fan of Bleach than i am of Naruto too...
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@Anime
Lmao what is wrong with you bro? If Almighty is already on (which you would assume so unless stated otherwise in this fight) then yhwach will know all the possible moves that kaguya will try on him and already peform countermeasures before kaguya already performs them. What part of this fact do you not understand?
Lol tell me where it says all of those abilities can only be activated via The Almighty? Afaik, he used Auswhalen to get those abilities, having the almighty on or not is completely irrelevant.
Conversely, I can easily argue Yhwach can just instantly lol absorb kaguya like he did with aizen, or atleast absorb her powers like he did to ichigo. And he can consume it way faster than kaguya can supposedly "soul steal" (which is absolute nonsense btw)
There are literally so many reasons why Kaguya just straight out loses, I don't know why you are so blind to them.
Ah the good old "im a bigger fan of x than y so I cant be biased" lmao
I seriously consider you reread both bleach and naruto mangas, your knowledge in both appear to be severely lacking.
Lmao what is wrong with you bro? If Almighty is already on (which you would assume so unless stated otherwise in this fight) then yhwach will know all the possible moves that kaguya will try on him and already peform countermeasures before kaguya already performs them. What part of this fact do you not understand?
Lol tell me where it says all of those abilities can only be activated via The Almighty? Afaik, he used Auswhalen to get those abilities, having the almighty on or not is completely irrelevant.
Conversely, I can easily argue Yhwach can just instantly lol absorb kaguya like he did with aizen, or atleast absorb her powers like he did to ichigo. And he can consume it way faster than kaguya can supposedly "soul steal" (which is absolute nonsense btw)
There are literally so many reasons why Kaguya just straight out loses, I don't know why you are so blind to them.
Ah the good old "im a bigger fan of x than y so I cant be biased" lmao
I seriously consider you reread both bleach and naruto mangas, your knowledge in both appear to be severely lacking.
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And why should we assume The Almighty is already on at the beginning of a battle whether specificed or not? Thats like saying Kaguya's IT is already on at the begnning too.Perilouss said:
Nvm I thought someone here in this thread said he got them via The Almighty. But i checked his profile and it says he has them via his Auswhalen. My fault on this one. But it's not like it matters either way he still needs to activate them before Kaguya can finish him.
Its not nonsense because Kaguya has the rinnegans abilities and the rinnegan gives you Soul Steal. Also speed is equalized so both would use their abilities at the same speeds as well. Plus, how can Ywhach absorb her if his soul is stolen just by mere touch? Nagato nearly did the same thing in his fight with Naruto during the war arc. It would be easier for Kaguya because she could just restrict his movements like she did to Naruto and Sasuke when she touches him. Unless Ywhach manages to not directly get in contact with her tho....
And all of those reasons are done WHEN he activates The Almighty or Auswhalen, which Kaguya can get passed as long as she finishes Ywhach before he activates either of them. And it isnt like i dont have a reason why she wins when I do as you already know.
Well I dont really care about what you think of me so you stating im biased is irrelevant anyway. Believe what you want
The only way im admitting Ywhach wins this if he can activate The Almighty or Aushwhalen before Kaguya does anything to him.
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Like i said, There's also the point that neither Sasuke, Obito or Madara use the Rinnegan to soul suck someone in battle after Nagato. Meaning is useless or it can be resisted by fodder as well. Like Bleach fodder can do the same. Kaguya didn't absorb Naruto or Sasuke's soul, either. NLF.
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1. Obito and Madara have never been given a reason to use Soul Suck throughout the entire war arc. They're only purpose was to capture Naruto and Killer Bee and then start the IT. Kaguya hasnt neither as she wanted to capture their chakra for herself. Why would they soul suck such important people they clearly needed for their own purposes?
2. Soul Stealing bypasses durability and directly attacks you. You need resistance to it otherwise it can and will work on you. It is not a NLF.
Also, dont compare soul sucking like Yammys to anything like that of Rinnegan soul stealing. Yammy's soul suck was garbage, even Tatsuki, a normal human, was able to resist her soul being completely sucked out of her.
2. Soul Stealing bypasses durability and directly attacks you. You need resistance to it otherwise it can and will work on you. It is not a NLF.
Also, dont compare soul sucking like Yammys to anything like that of Rinnegan soul stealing. Yammy's soul suck was garbage, even Tatsuki, a normal human, was able to resist her soul being completely sucked out of her.
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Irrelevant. In character no of them show to use this feats, meaning is useless, if they aren't bloodlusted here they can't use them. Neither they have shown to be able to use them. There were a lot of occasions which they could have use it, if is as easy as you say. Do you have proof Yammy's soul suck is garbage, because like it was stated having a bit of energy from the verse makes you immune to it.
And Kaguya won't have the chance to touch him either, Ichigo, renji, aizen they all tried to grab him and got their arms severe isntantly. She can regenerate, but that's as far as she goes with that.
And Kaguya won't have the chance to touch him either, Ichigo, renji, aizen they all tried to grab him and got their arms severe isntantly. She can regenerate, but that's as far as she goes with that.
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Just because they havent used them doesnt mean they can't use them. Soul Stealing is an ability given to you by the Rinnegan and there's no proof Obito or Madara's were speciifc special Rinnegan that lacked certain abilties. Obito was even able to give the 6 reanimated Jinchuriki the 6 abilities the 6 pains had used during their invasion of the leaf. If Obito didnt have all the abilities that the Rinnegan gives you, then he wouldnt be able to give them those abilities like the other pains had. It's not that they had a chance to use them, its that he and Madara simply did not have a reason to use them. There's no concrete reason to even assume they dont have the Soul Stealing ability.HokageMangaVox said:
Proof? What about Tatsuki being able to resist it? And she's a normal average human with only basic spirtual sensing.....Yammy's soul suck in general has only been shown to work on normal humans but that alone isnt concrete to suggest it cant work on higher tier characters yes. However, the fact that Tatsuki could resist it says something on how weak it is. And for the having a bit of energy from the verse makes you immune", 'doesnt that sound NLFish? And it shouldnt even matter because this site has the Verse Equalization rule to equalize energies like Chakra, Ki, etc.'
Now that I can understand, but couldnt it have been that way for Ichigo, Renji and Aizen because they were souls when fighting Ywhach? Kaguya is a physical living being.
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I'm not saying that they don't have it, if you knew better you would know that Nagato's Rinnegan is the same Obito and Madara. Yet they all possess a diferent unique ability just like the sharingan. Nagato was the ability of the paths, obito was kamui, Madara was limbo, and sasuke was amenotejikara. I'm saying they haven't shown to use it, so is unlikely they would use it in battle. There's a 40/60 chance.
By simply having power. If this would had been useful,they would had use it againts everyone. The fact that they don't means they are unaffected. We know that the arrancars can train, and we know they could have use it on weaker opponents yet they didn't. Same with rinnegan soul steal in Naruto.
Then according to energy equalization Yhwach has more than her, because his stronger,so saying she is immune to it without proof is NLF.
There's no proof that she won't be harm. Physical bodies in Bleach can't see or harm souls unless they're bond with something spiritual, such as reiatsu, reiryoku or reishi. Physical bodies also evaporate in the presences of high tiers, even souls as well. Also, according to your argument you were about to prove how can Kaguya affect directly a soul without a human body. Last time i checked the rinnegan ability only works on physical bodies,to extract the soul. You cannot extract a soul from a soul. Or that even she possess that ability for that matter. I'll wait for the scans.
By simply having power. If this would had been useful,they would had use it againts everyone. The fact that they don't means they are unaffected. We know that the arrancars can train, and we know they could have use it on weaker opponents yet they didn't. Same with rinnegan soul steal in Naruto.
Then according to energy equalization Yhwach has more than her, because his stronger,so saying she is immune to it without proof is NLF.
There's no proof that she won't be harm. Physical bodies in Bleach can't see or harm souls unless they're bond with something spiritual, such as reiatsu, reiryoku or reishi. Physical bodies also evaporate in the presences of high tiers, even souls as well. Also, according to your argument you were about to prove how can Kaguya affect directly a soul without a human body. Last time i checked the rinnegan ability only works on physical bodies,to extract the soul. You cannot extract a soul from a soul. Or that even she possess that ability for that matter. I'll wait for the scans.
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@Anime
Ermm maybe because he's had it on ever since all the way back when he fought Ichibei without turning it off a single time?? It is more illogical to believe that he wouldn't have it on at the start of the fight than if he did have it on. Your example of IT is a very poor comparison, it is more like saying kaguya starts with her rinne-sharingan eye closed and it opens later in the fight. That is just ********.
Lol what do you mean yhwach cannot activate the other sternritters abilities before she can soul steal (even assuming she can)? So your telling me that kaguya can tag yhwach, hold his head and extract his soul all before he can even activate anything?? ESPECIALLY WHEN HE CAN SEE INTO THE FRIGGIN FUTURE??
You got it all mixed up. Yhwach can absorb Kaguya just by touching her. On the other hand, the only time we have actually seen rinnegan soul extraction IIRC (so you can correct me with a SCAN if I am wrong on this one (which I doubt)) is when Nagata's Human path used it on some fodder shinobi, and he literally had to immobilise them, hold their head and pull it out. Rinnegan oul extraction is obviously a useless technique in actual battle, and you know it so stop trying to denying it.
You think Yhwach can just let her restrict his movements as if he is some naruto and sasuke? Lol
You already contradict yourself by claiming Kaguya can do something before yhwach does, yet you say speed is equalised? Your clearly running out of arguments lmao
Whether you like to admit that kaguya loses or not, the simple fact of the matter is that she does lose, she is simply outclassed in basically every departmant.
Ermm maybe because he's had it on ever since all the way back when he fought Ichibei without turning it off a single time?? It is more illogical to believe that he wouldn't have it on at the start of the fight than if he did have it on. Your example of IT is a very poor comparison, it is more like saying kaguya starts with her rinne-sharingan eye closed and it opens later in the fight. That is just ********.
Lol what do you mean yhwach cannot activate the other sternritters abilities before she can soul steal (even assuming she can)? So your telling me that kaguya can tag yhwach, hold his head and extract his soul all before he can even activate anything?? ESPECIALLY WHEN HE CAN SEE INTO THE FRIGGIN FUTURE??
You got it all mixed up. Yhwach can absorb Kaguya just by touching her. On the other hand, the only time we have actually seen rinnegan soul extraction IIRC (so you can correct me with a SCAN if I am wrong on this one (which I doubt)) is when Nagata's Human path used it on some fodder shinobi, and he literally had to immobilise them, hold their head and pull it out. Rinnegan oul extraction is obviously a useless technique in actual battle, and you know it so stop trying to denying it.
You think Yhwach can just let her restrict his movements as if he is some naruto and sasuke? Lol
You already contradict yourself by claiming Kaguya can do something before yhwach does, yet you say speed is equalised? Your clearly running out of arguments lmao
Whether you like to admit that kaguya loses or not, the simple fact of the matter is that she does lose, she is simply outclassed in basically every departmant.
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Why do you guys even debate this threat still ?
Yhwach can alter the FUTURE.
So he can rewrite a future where Kagaya's powers are sealed.
Yhwach can alter the FUTURE.
So he can rewrite a future where Kagaya's powers are sealed.
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What proof is there that they wouldnt use it? They didnt use it on Naruto and Bee because they wanted to collect the Eight and Nine Tails from them and they wouldnt use it on anyone in the war because they planned to use their chakra to charge the God tree. To make it simple, they wouldnt use it to kill anyone in the war. Im pretty sure they would use it if they absolutely needed to.HokageMangaVox said:I'm not saying that they don't have it, if you knew better you would know that Nagato's Rinnegan is the same Obito and Madara. Yet they all possess a diferent unique ability just like the sharingan. Nagato was the ability of the paths, obito was kamui, Madara was limbo, and sasuke was amenotejikara. I'm saying they haven't shown to use it, so is unlikely they would use it in battle. There's a 40/60 chance.
By simply having power. If this would had been useful,they would had use it againts everyone. The fact that they don't means they are unaffected. We know that the arrancars can train, and we know they could have use it on weaker opponents yet they didn't. Same with rinnegan soul steal in Naruto.
Then according to energy equalization Yhwach has more than her, because his stronger,so saying she is immune to it without proof is NLF.
There's no proof that she won't be harm. Physical bodies in Bleach can't see or harm souls unless they're bond with something spiritual, such as reiatsu, reiryoku or reishi. Physical bodies also evaporate in the presences of high tiers, even souls as well. Also, according to your argument you were about to prove how can Kaguya affect directly a soul without a human body. Last time i checked the rinnegan ability only works on physical bodies,to extract the soul. You cannot extract a soul from a soul. Or that even she possess that ability for that matter. I'll wait for the scans.
"By simply having power." What do you mean by this? Because if you mean "having a bit of energy from the verse itself makes you immune" then no where in that scan is this remotely suggested. Yammy says that she resisted it because her soul was strong enough, not because she had the same type of spirtual energy as he did. Also that scan is mistranslated, I have the real actual thing in one of my manga books and Yammy only says her soul must be stronger than he expected if it could survive. Never once did he or even Ulquirroa say she survived because she had a bit of the same energy as they did. Also it should be logically assumed that one who has the Rinnegan has resistance to soul stealing (not immunity to it) since they have the ability themselves and it wouldnt make any sense to be totally vulnerable to something you yourself can replicate. Actually, how is Rinnegan soul stealing the same as Yammy's? One is determined by strength of spirtual energy while the other one isnt, otherwise Nagato wouldnt have been able to soul steal Naruto who was in Kyubi mode when this happened.
Verse Equlization ignores that law of not being able to see Soul Reapers and why wouldnt Kaguya be able to see them regardless? She has the Rinnegan's abilities and if the user can use Soul Steal, then clearly it means they can see souls. Hell there's even a jutsu that can turn yourself into a pure spirit and average ninja were able to see them.
I never said you can extract a soul from a soul, I said unless your opponent has a stronger will or control, you should be able to absorb them entirely. It would be like if you were a logia made out of a certain element entirely and you were facing someone who has absorption hax of said element. Whats stopping them from just absorbing you? Thats basically what im arguing here. But it's not like it matters since Ywhach isnt a soul being, he is a quincy.
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With speed equal, No blitz will occur. Any Reiatsu/Reishi based attacks can be absorbed. And that energy recycles inside the absorber making them stronger.
Almighty doesnt protect against mind ******* so if we're being honest, Kaguya one shots via Mugen Tsukiyomi. No matter what anyone says here this match either ends via Mugen Tsuk or inconclusive being they don't have means of putting each other down. Both are Immortal. Thus the Almight doesnt matter in that regard.
Almighty doesnt protect against mind ******* so if we're being honest, Kaguya one shots via Mugen Tsukiyomi. No matter what anyone says here this match either ends via Mugen Tsuk or inconclusive being they don't have means of putting each other down. Both are Immortal. Thus the Almight doesnt matter in that regard.
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Except we know this isnt true being Yhwach had the KS used on him post having the Almighty activated.This is even stated. So unfortunately im not wanking. You are.
Except this isnt true because KS was used on him before he activated the Almighty
Except that in and of itself is an assumption because its not stated to be so and even if it were the case the almighty has feats of negating the affects of abilities already used on him. And if the Almighty cant negate the affects of mind ******* what proof is there that it could protect against it? Kubo just proved that the Almighty can't negated the affects of mind *******. And Yhwachs ability gives him protection via "Negating the abilities of others used on him". So yes, IT ***** him over. Xavier would **** him over. Lelouche would **** him over.
The Almighty cant negate mind *******. Kubo proved it. Thus there is nothing that says IT wouldnt do the same. This "It needs to be used on him before" BS is just headcanon.
Except this isnt true because KS was used on him before he activated the Almighty
Except that in and of itself is an assumption because its not stated to be so and even if it were the case the almighty has feats of negating the affects of abilities already used on him. And if the Almighty cant negate the affects of mind ******* what proof is there that it could protect against it? Kubo just proved that the Almighty can't negated the affects of mind *******. And Yhwachs ability gives him protection via "Negating the abilities of others used on him". So yes, IT ***** him over. Xavier would **** him over. Lelouche would **** him over.
The Almighty cant negate mind *******. Kubo proved it. Thus there is nothing that says IT wouldnt do the same. This "It needs to be used on him before" BS is just headcanon.
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Yep. he used it before they all got there. and you know what the deal is to be caught under it's illusion? to see it's release.
Which means it had to of been used while Aizen was in prison. Yhwach even says it back in chapter 514 if you want to see for yourself.
Which means it had to of been used while Aizen was in prison. Yhwach even says it back in chapter 514 if you want to see for yourself.
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Imma just stop by this thread for a bit (which by the way has become quite hostile...) again.
Still doesnt make much sense that Yhwach noticed in chap. 514 that he was caught under KS' influence and then didnt just use his Almighty after he activated it to remove KS' effects, or just look into his own future and see he would be deceived and plan ahead for it. Meh, plot I guess...
Anyways, since the whole victory by IT thing has been pretty much debunked, doesnt this mean that Kaguya has literally no way to harm Yhwach since he can just "lolAlmighty" everything away? Even if by some miracle she killed him, he would just revive himself.
With all that being said, isnt this a huge mismatch due to massive hax advantage?
Still doesnt make much sense that Yhwach noticed in chap. 514 that he was caught under KS' influence and then didnt just use his Almighty after he activated it to remove KS' effects, or just look into his own future and see he would be deceived and plan ahead for it. Meh, plot I guess...
Anyways, since the whole victory by IT thing has been pretty much debunked, doesnt this mean that Kaguya has literally no way to harm Yhwach since he can just "lolAlmighty" everything away? Even if by some miracle she killed him, he would just revive himself.
With all that being said, isnt this a huge mismatch due to massive hax advantage?
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To answer that question, Aizen put Yhwach under the KS in the past, the almighty works with the future so he couldn't remove because it happend in the pastFinalBattleX01 said:
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Like i said. Yhwach never specifically stated that KS was used. He said Aizen messed with his perception of time. And even if it was KS. It should have been negated as soon as Almighty was activated the same as with Ichibei's abilities. If it wasn't then that means the almighty can't negate abilities that affect the mind. Yhwachs Almighty as he stated gives him the ability to negated the affects of abilities used on him. If almighty can't negate KS why can it Negate IT? KS being used on him before Almighty was used means nothing if Almighty cant negate it anyways which is the case. Otherwise KS would have been ineffective just like Ichimonji. Do you not understand that? And again, Aizen statements in that scan imply at that moment. Kubo even has pictures of Yhwach arriving to Soul Society to accompany that Statement of using KS before Ichigo arrived.LordAizenSama said:
Youre not debunking this.
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Well all that took a long time to read. Now I'm going to go with Yhwach on this one.
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If Kaguya created her dimensions, you know, which even have actual suns in it, and creation being>>>>>>>>destruction, shouldnt Kaguya be in the same tier as Ywhach? If not then higher?
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Perhaps so, perhaps not, either way:
a) Lets stay on topic by having this discussion with Kaguya's current stats.
b) Even if she had the AP advantage, it still wouldnt change the fact that Yhwach has more than enough hax to defeat her.
a) Lets stay on topic by having this discussion with Kaguya's current stats.
b) Even if she had the AP advantage, it still wouldnt change the fact that Yhwach has more than enough hax to defeat her.
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I wont deny the hax part but this is assuming she cant beat him before he activates The Almighty or Aushwhalen, which she can. She could even just soul steal him like i was arguing before.
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Yhwachs hax really doesnt help him put her down. More than half of the SR abilities are absorbable. She can regen her body and regenerate from her energy. So you see, Yhwach while stronger cant put her down either. Thats why i said, she either wins via IT or Inconclusive.FinalBattleX01 said:
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Cant Kaguya technically become Intangible anyways? She is a part of the Ten Tails and any tailed beast is just a mass of pure chakra in the form of beasts. In addition, when Naruto attacked her with some of the tailed beasts chakra, Kaguya reacted to it and she was turned into a semi Ten Tails state that instantly absorbed anything it touched. Obviously Ywhach has hax that goes around this but it should shorten the hax advantage.
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@Anime4Life2020 Pretty sure Yhwach starts with Almighty activated since its his strongest form, and even then, activating it would take a negligible amount of time. Also, Kaguya cannot enter that form at will since. It was caused by the Tailed Beasts destroying her physical body in order to break out and turning into a mass of pure chakra. Her actual Tailed Beast Mode is more than likely final form Ten-Tails.
@Akiretsu Yhwach can absorb her like he did to the Soul King and Aizen. While it would take some time seeing as she is a being on his level, it would inevitably happen.
Like I said before, this battle is a total mismatch imho...
@Akiretsu Yhwach can absorb her like he did to the Soul King and Aizen. While it would take some time seeing as she is a being on his level, it would inevitably happen.
Like I said before, this battle is a total mismatch imho...
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Well even if she just becomes the ten tails it still means she is turning into pure chakra, which should imply some type of intangibilityFinalBattleX01 said:
And no just because it's his strongest form doesnt mean he'll start out with it. Thats never been a case for any vs match. Thats like saying Goku would start out as SSGSS or SSGJ or Luffy would start out in G4. Or Aang would start out in AS. But for this fight specifically, that would be like saying Kaguya starts out with Infinite Tsukyomi since its her best mind technique or with her GTSB. There's nothing concrete that would solidfy either of them starting out with their best. Every match usually has combatants start out in their normal base forms unless specificied by OP.
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The Ten-Tails is not pure chakra. It has a physical body, thats why the Gedou Mazo is needed to summon it. So no intangibility.
Well, OP specifies "both at their strongest" so I'm pretty sure that implies SK absorbed Almighty Yhwach... Even if he didnt have Almighty on, its safe to assume it would be the first thing he would use in the fight...
Well, OP specifies "both at their strongest" so I'm pretty sure that implies SK absorbed Almighty Yhwach... Even if he didnt have Almighty on, its safe to assume it would be the first thing he would use in the fight...
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Wait really? I thought all tailed beasts were just masses of pure chakra in the form of beasts coming from the Ten Tails....FinalBattleX01 said:
Im not denying it would be the first thing he'd do, because it would be. Im just denying that he would start out with already activated.
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The Ten-Tails has a physical body (it is the fusion of the Shinju and Kaguya) but all its chakra was ripped out and split into the Tailed Beasts, who are pure chakra constructs, by the So6P. The lifeless body of the Ten-Tails was sealed into the moon. The Akatsuki later summoned the body from the moon and started stuffing the Tailed Beasts inside it in order to return all its chakra and revive it, which they accomplished.
Anyways, unless anyone has any new information to add I suggest we wait until an admin decides what to do with this thread. Its either gonna be a mismatch due to hax advantage (which it totally is...) or a hilariously overwhelming win for Yhwach. So yah, I say we just wait for now...
Anyways, unless anyone has any new information to add I suggest we wait until an admin decides what to do with this thread. Its either gonna be a mismatch due to hax advantage (which it totally is...) or a hilariously overwhelming win for Yhwach. So yah, I say we just wait for now...
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Got it
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Is Yhwach allowed to use the Sternritter abilties? If so this is a stomp really. The schutzstaffel, Gremmy and Haschwalth are so broken conceptually it's kinda ridiculous
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