Yet another Goku vs Superman Thread (7-3-0)

[C2_of_Omegon]

Why the hell would I just have random comic scans ten times older than you on hand?
I might have read some comics so I know vaguely what he's talking about and I agreed with him, doesn't mean I save that shit in case I happen to need it in a Goku thread sometimes in the next half decade. Just look up some respect threads dude, surely you can do that much?

Why should Cryo have to look it up? Burden of proof is on the people making the argument when the profile doesn't support that.

 

[Chariot190]

Why should Cryo have to look it up? Burden of proof is on the people making the argument when the profile doesn't support that.

Because it's easily accessible, would help him get a better understanding, and not argue purely out of ignorance?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Yeah, except no..he only predicted where Hit was gonna be once time resumed. He didn't predict his next ten fucktillion moves in order, only the final result, and countered that instead.

I don't believe you have any examples of what you are claiming for Superman, Nightwing or Batman.

Yeah I do? It's called that's quite literally what happened and no. Go look up that Rezero skill feat threads, we don't accept blatantly dumb shit like that. It's an anti feat for Hit because according to you he somehow didn't react to the punch Goku threw that from his perspective would have taken like 2 days to hit him. It doesn't matter if Goku is skilled, he isn't tagging a dude who's that much above him in speed unless Hit just straight up wasn't looking at him.

I don't care about Re:Zero and I am not spending time researching it to compare it to a Dragon Ball fight (when the context could be completely different for all I know) to compare skill levels with a DC character when your assertions for that DC character's 'thoughts per second' hasn't been demonstrated even once.

It does as I'm calling yours just as bad, same situation. Hit's also a jobber (except actually, he literally got fed to Jiren to make him look better).
I'm tempted to make a CRT to straight up remove this skill feat from Goku if you're about to pull some 250,000x shit to hyperinflate it, because at that point it isn't a skill feat, it's an outlier.

Hit was CSSB-level and lost to a UI-level opponent. Flash lost to Deathstroke. As for the revision, do whatever you want.

Why the hell would I just have random comic scans ten times older than you on hand?
I might have read some comics so I know vaguely what he's talking about and I agreed with him, doesn't mean I save that shit in case I happen to need it in a Goku thread sometimes in the next half decade. Just look up some respect threads dude, surely you can do that much?

I did look up respect threads and I haven't seen a single thing regarding this feat anywhere.

You blindly agreed with what another person claimed when that claim wasn't even substantiated with evidence and you haven't even demonstrated once that Superman's skill level is even close to Goku's level. Baseless. His profile doesn't even reflect anything you claim.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Because it's easily accessible, would help him get a better understanding, and not argue purely out of ignorance?

Said the guy that blindly agreed with Nightwing thinking 'a million moves a second' who hasn't provided any evidence for a single one of his claims. And I've looked, as I said before I haven't seen this feat anywhere on the internet. How much do I have to dig to prove what you blindly agreed with?

 

[Spilxson2]

Okay I'm not a moderator or anything, but we should try to keep it civil here

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Because it's easily accessible, would help him get a better understanding, and not argue purely out of ignorance?

If it's so easily accessible, then the Superman camp can bring scans, yes? They can show proof of THEIR claims for THEIR argument?

It is not up to your opposition to go searching for the information to prove your point.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Okay I'm not a moderator or anything, but we should try to keep it civil here

Sure, I have no problem with that. I'm just gonna wait for the scans.

 

[Chariot190]

I don't believe you have any examples of what you are claiming for Superman, Nightwing or Batman.

Just look up some respect threads?

I don't care about Re:Zero and I am not spending time researching it to compare it to a Dragon Ball fight (when the context could be completely different for all I know) to compare skill levels with a DC character when your assertions for that DC character's 'thoughts per second' hasn't been demonstrated even once.

You should, because it's a wiki standard, that feat was straight up throw out because and that was only a 380x gap. We simply do not accept shit like that, if you're arguing that's how we accept the feat, cool, I'll be making a CRT later to have it thrown because according to your assertions, it's an outlier or Hit let himself get hit.

Wasn't even my claim, I was agreeing with him saying that'd be well and beyond whatever DBZ as a whole has? Last I checked it ain't on me to dig for that shit simply because I agreed?

Hit was CSSB-level and lost to a UI-level opponent. Flash lost to Deathstroke. As for the revision, do whatever you want.

Yeah? And? Literally a jobber all the same..it doesn't matter how strong one is, jobbing is a term to refer to a previously established hyped character losing to a new one to make said new one look strong. Which, is what happened.

Flash lost to Deathstroke through analytical prediction, predicting where he'd go and forcing him into running right into his blade, despite Flash having a nigh infinite speed advantage and should logically have been able to react to that. It is no different than you arguing Goku is super skilled because he predicted 1, singular, position Hit would likely be in and hit him despite Hit being so far beyond him in speed that it'd be comparable to you watching a snail inch toward you from down the street. While you're looking at it, and still getting hit by it even though you had all the time in the world to dodge or counter.
This also doesn't change the fact he only actually predicted 1 attack, Goku didn't predict a million consecutive blows or anything.

I did look up respect threads and I haven't seen a single thing regarding this feat anywhere.

Ain't no way you looked up pre crisis skill respect threads and arguing supes doesn't manhandle...

You blindly agreed with what another person claimed when that claim wasn't even substantiated with evidence and you haven't even demonstrated once that Superman's skill level is even close to Goku's level. Baseless. His profile doesn't even reflect anything you claim.

I agreed with it because I remember seeing something like that 5 or so years ago while I was skimming PC shit for Batman stuff, so I know at the very least he isn't making shit up? And such a feat would, in fact, eclipse anything DBZ has to offer.
Really not much more to it then that. It'd be no different than someone saying "Yeah Goku is skilled, he beat Roshi who's above Gohan who knows every martial arts", and then agreeing with that because you've read the manga and know it isn't a blatant lie.

Though, someone mentioned above Supes has beat Batman in a fight, if true I can work with that at least given Batman is a dude I have scans of readily available.

And finally, yeah profile is dogshit, people are working to fix it, what do you want us to do? Just pretend it isn't the case?

If it's so easily accessible, then the Superman camp can bring scans, yes? They can show proof of THEIR claims for THEIR argument?

It is not up to your opposition to go searching for the information to prove your point.

Sure why not. And? I'm moreso calling the Hit feat as being dumb as shit based on his claims, agreeing Supes manhandles has nothing to do with that.

 

[Chariot190]

Said the guy that blindly agreed with Nightwing thinking 'a million moves a second' who hasn't provided any evidence for a single one of his claims. And I've looked, as I said before I haven't seen this feat anywhere on the internet. How much do I have to dig to prove what you blindly agreed with?

Huh? I've actually read comics brother, not every of course, mostly Batman and Batman affiliated, which, Nightwing is so... It wasn't a blind agree. Why the accusation?

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Sure why not. And? I'm moreso calling the Hit feat as being dumb as shit based on his claims, agreeing Supes manhandles has nothing to do with that.

...you mean dumb as in compared to Superman outskilling Batman and Wonder Woman? Because I can easily see that as PIS.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

My guy, its not our jobs to search for scans for your argument, that's your Job.

And calling goku predicting hit "a fluf"...is...ehhh. Goku in base was able to predict a ssb level opponents move [mind you hit, beinh a ssb level opponents makes him 12 million times faster than base goku] said guy also has prediction and can use time shenanigans on top.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Just look up some respect threads?

I have. I can't find any mention of the feat.

You should, because it's a wiki standard, that feat was straight up throw out because and that was only a 380x gap. We simply do not accept shit like that, if you're arguing that's how we accept the feat, cool, I'll be making a CRT later to have it thrown because according to your assertions, it's an outlier or Hit let himself get hit.

I don't mind. Regardless I don't believe it effects this match's outcome.

Wasn't even my claim, I was agreeing with him saying that'd be well and beyond whatever DBZ as a whole has? Last I checked it ain't on me to dig for that shit simply because I agreed?

Given you agreed with it despite no scans being provided I had the impression you had knowledge that I did not. Hence me requesting a source.

Yeah? And? Literally a jobber all the same..it doesn't matter how strong one is, jobbing is a term to refer to a previously established hyped character losing to a new one to make said new one look strong. Which, is what happened
Flash lost to Deathstroke through analytical prediction, predicting where he'd go and forcing him into running right into his blade, despite Flash having a nigh infinite speed advantage and should logically have been able to react to that. It is no different than you arguing Goku is super skilled because he predicted 1, singular, position Hit would likely be in and hit him despite Hit being so far beyond him in speed that it'd be comparable to you watching a snail inch toward you from down the street. While you're looking at it, and still getting hit by it even though you had all the time in the world to dodge or counter.
This also doesn't change the fact he only actually predicted 1 attack, Goku didn't predict a million consecutive blows or anything.

This argument is based off something that hasn't been proven.

Ain't no way you looked up pre crisis skill respect threads and arguing supes doesn't manhandle...

I'm referring to the Nightwing feat. Since you know so much, provide some scans and arguments?

I agreed with it because I remember seeing something like that 5 or so years ago while I was skimming PC shit for Batman stuff, so I know at the very least he isn't making shit up? And such a feat would, in fact, eclipse anything DBZ has to offer.

With zero context and no scan to back it based off a 5 year old memory? Ehh...

Really not much more to it then that. It'd be no different than someone saying "Yeah Goku is skilled, he beat Roshi who's above Gohan who knows every martial arts", and then agreeing with that because you've read the manga and know it isn't a blatant lie.

No not really. I provided evidence of those statements and you can see this on his profiles, specifically Goku scaling to Roshi as a child. I don't see any of this on Superman's profile besides him losing to Muhammad Ali.

Though, someone mentioned above Supes has beat Batman in a fight, if true I can work with that at least given Batman is a dude I have scans of readily available.

Would need to demonstrate the context behind Superman doing that first. Otherwise we can't say if he really scales to it skillwise.

And finally, yeah profile is dogshit, people are working to fix it, what do you want us to do? Just pretend it isn't the case?

I'm not 'pretending'. I've been asking for sources for several posts now. From people who seem to be knowledgeable on the subject.

Either way there is no point to us continuing this discussion until it's proven that the Nightwing thing is legit. Otherwise we're just going off-topic debating this Hit vs Goku fight and what it means when it doesn't even relate to Superman's capabilities.

 

[Chariot190]

...you mean dumb as in compared to Superman outskilling Batman and Wonder Woman? Because I can easily see that as PIS.

I'd agree, if it wasn't Pre Crisis. Supes back then was dumb as shit, learning whole languages in a instant, knowing super alien fighting styles, etc.

He didn't really lose those types of things till post crisis.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Glancing over Superman's hax, one of his best win-cons is precognition, but even setting aside the battle IQ debate of who has better reading/prediciton feats, I should point out that Dragon Ball characters can overpower clairvoyance and prediction on a metaphysical level.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Huh? I've actually read comics brother, not every of course, mostly Batman and Batman affiliated, which, Nightwing is so... It wasn't a blind agree. Why the accusation?

From my perspective I just don't have anything to go off of. I don't even know if it exists and as such I can't even begin to validate it. And given things like the Mandela effect exists I'm not inclined to believe you just because you claim to remember it. So given you are going off a vague several year old memory to agree with someone who provided no scans and I can't find this feat online I have reason to think this is just you agreeing without verifying its legitimacy.

If Superman is lacking this much with his profile then maybe this thread shouldn't even continue until Superman's profile has been properly revised. Perhaps even locked and we just make a new thread sometime in the future when it's done. Otherwise Goku wins when Superman's profile is barebones or Superman wins using feats and scaling that hasn't even been verified and given to his profile.

 

[Chariot190]

My guy, its not our jobs to search for scans for your argument, that's your Job.

And calling goku predicting hit "a fluf"...is...ehhh. Goku in base was able to predict a ssb level opponents move [mind you hit, beinh a ssb level opponents makes him 12 million times faster than base goku] said guy also has prediction and can use time shenanigans on top.

It wasn't even my argument, I merely agreed with it.

Lmao what?
It is fluff, at the end of the day all Goku did was predict where would be in half a second, that's it. Hits speed doesn't matter, he didn't make use of it, and Goku didn't predict ten fucktillion moves in order to get to his conclusion on where he'd be once time resumed, all he predicted was the end result, and countered. Basic analytical prediction.

I don't mind. Regardless I don't believe it effects this match's outcome.

What? It's like the only half decent analytical predictive feat he has? Against a dude who's smarter than super computers and what not.

Given you agreed with it despite no scans being provided I had the impression you had knowledge that I did not. Hence me requesting a source.

Correct. Doesn't mean I'm going through 4000+ issues to find it.

This argument is based off something that hasn't been proven.

So? I can agree with it all the same? Not withstanding what I said was such a feat would eclipse the utter **** out of DBZ. The reason why I said he'd manhandle Goku is more due to Batman and Karate Kid.

I'm referring to the Nightwing feat. Since you know so much, provide some scans and arguments?

I could provide some arguments relating to Batman at least as I **** with him. But again, I'm not digging for the scan, go bitch at whoever brought it up initially.

With zero context and no scan to back it based off a 5 year old memory? Ehh...

So? I haven't watched RoF since it came out, doesn't mean I can't remember it? If you can't remember a few years ago that sounds like a personal issue on your end lad.
As for scan, again, why the do you think I just have that on me, i'd have to be unhinged to just save that stuff

No not really. I provided evidence of those statements and you can see this on his profiles, specifically Goku scaling to Roshi as a child. I don't see any of this on Superman's profile besides him losing to Muhammad Ali.

Where's the Gohan knows every martial arts in the world scan?

Would need to demonstrate the context behind Superman doing that first. Otherwise we can't say if he really scales to it skillwise.

Lad said they switched bodies, which if anything is asinine as Supes is infinites above Batman. But this one, I actually don't know so...

Either way there is no point to us continuing this discussion until it's proven that the Nightwing thing is legit. Otherwise we're just going off-topic debating this Hit vs Goku fight and what it means when it doesn't even relate to Superman's capabilities.

Not at all, you're using that as an argument. I'm contesting it, the feat isn't as good as implicated, it's basic analytical prediction, it's entirely on topic for the match.
Is what I would say but I'm pretty sure we're using a key BEFORE that fight so, why are you using it as an argument actually?

 

[Knifeman29]

Ohhh....I just got what he mean't by millions of moves a second.

 

[Chariot190]

From my perspective I just don't have anything to go off of. I don't even know if it exists and as such I can't even begin to validate it. And given things like the Mandela effect exists I'm not inclined to believe you just because you claim to remember it. So given you are going off a vague several year old memory to agree with someone who provided no scans and I can't find this feat online I have reason to think this is just you agreeing without verifying its legitimacy.

If Superman is lacking this much with his profile then maybe this thread shouldn't even continue until Superman's profile has been properly revised. Perhaps even locked and we just make a new thread sometime in the future when it's done. Otherwise Goku wins when Superman's profile is barebones or Superman wins using feats and scaling that hasn't even been verified and given to his profile.

My brother in Christ..if only you knew how bad things really were...

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Enhanced Soul Destruction, Matter Destruction, Existence Erasure, Deconstruction: At this level of mastery, Power of Destruction users can instantly affect their targets[69] from a distance,[77] without the need[78] to channel and cast Energy of Destruction

How does Superman resist Goku making reality whatever he wants it to be and snapping Supes away from existence?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

What? It's like the only half decent analytical predictive feat he has? Against a dude who's smarter than super computers and what not.

It isn't. It's just the one picked out because it's close to his RoF key in the timeline. And I'm saying it's not relevant because it's being compared to the Nightwing feat, which hasn't been proven.

Correct. Doesn't mean I'm going through 4000+ issues to find it.

We're at an impasse then.

So? I can agree with it all the same? Not withstanding what I said was such a feat would eclipse the utter ***** out of DBZ. The reason why I said he'd manhandle Goku is more due to Batman and Karate Kid.

Haven't seen any scans for Superman scaling to Batman's skill as of yet, and no I'm not interested in looking that up. Burden of proof.

I could provide some arguments relating to Batman at least as I ***** with him. But again, I'm not digging for the scan, go bitch at whoever brought it up initially.

Okay so there is no evidence that Superman scales to Batman's skill or that Nightwing feat.

So? I haven't watched RoF since it came out, doesn't mean I can't remember it? If you can't remember a few years ago that sounds like a personal issue on your end lad.

Goku has an actual profile. And I'm not about to quiz you on the movie to see whether or not your memory claims are valid. I just want scans of the Nightwing feat.

As for scan, again, why the do you think I just have that on me, i'd have to be unhinged to just save that stuff

You claim it's very easy to find but I can't find it. You presumably partake in DC circles that I do not. So surely you can find and post the scan.

Where's the Gohan knows every martial arts in the world scan?

Here. Don't just read the English panel, that's just Viz mistranslating it. It has the original Japanese and translation. And no I don't believe Yamcha is a bad source because he's invested in the martial arts world and we do later see Roshi make a fool out of a 30th degree black belt in Kenpo. Goku's own fighting style uses a mixture of several (dozens?) of martial arts even before training under Roshi.

Lad said they switched bodies, which if anything is asinine as Supes is infinites above Batman. But this one, I actually don't know so...

Yup and I don't have any scans from him to verify what he's saying. I can vaguely recall a Pre-Crisis fight between them but to my recollection they were just faking it.

Not at all, you're using that as an argument. I'm contesting it, the feat isn't as good as implicated, it's basic analytical prediction, it's entirely on topic for the match.
Is what I would say but I'm pretty sure we're using a key BEFORE that fight so, why are you using it as an argument actually?

As I said I don't think it's worth continuing to debate it until the Nightwing feat is proven. I brought it up in response to that being possibly real after all. Like it's basically off-topic unless that feat is sourced and we validate it.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Ohhh....I just got what he mean't by millions of moves a second.

You got a source? Or?

My brother in Christ..if only you knew how bad things really were...

I exist in a world with 2-A Ash Ketchum and Sans losing to Jiren but inconning with Zeno. It's going to take a lot to shock me.

How does Superman resist Goku making reality whatever he wants it to be and snapping Supes away from existence?

This is RoF Goku starting in Base form. He does not have Hakai until his Black Saga key.

 

[Emerald]

How does Superman resist Goku making reality whatever he wants it to be and snapping Supes away from existence?

Goku doesn't have Hakai in RoF

 

[Knifeman29]

You got a source? Or?

I was looking for it but couldn't find anything on any page or respect thread. So I reread what he posted and saw he really said nightwing Beat someone who could predict millions of moves. so I think he's talking about Midnighter.

 

[Huesito88]

"

Enhanced Soul Destruction, Matter Destruction, Existence Erasure, Deconstruction: At this level of mastery, Power of Destruction users can instantly affect their targets[69] from a distance,[77] without the need[78] to channel and cast Energy of Destruction

How does Superman resist Goku making reality whatever he wants it to be and snapping Supes away from existence"

Lol I know you didn't mean it intentionally, but the way you worded made it so like Goku has reality warping subjective reality thought based hax lmao I'm dieing of laughter right now

 

[Chariot190]

It isn't. It's just the one picked out because it's close to his RoF key in the timeline. And I'm saying it's not relevant because it's being compared to the Nightwing feat, which hasn't been proven.

It's relevant because without even basic supes supercomputer predictive statements is enough?
And it's still an argument for Goku I'm contesting.

We're at an impasse then.

Just ask bro

Haven't seen any scans for Superman scaling to Batman's skill as of yet, and no I'm not interested in looking that up. Burden of proof.

This one is fair, I don't remember supes scaling either beyond statements.

Goku has an actual profile. And I'm not about to quiz you on the movie to see whether or not your memory claims are valid. I just want scans of the Nightwing feat.

Hey, people are trying , fixing a DC profile takes hundreds of times longer than a manga one. **** M3X has been working on PC Batman since February (I helped a bit ).

You claim it's very easy to find but I can't find it. You presumably partake in DC circles that I do not. So surely you can find and post the scan.

Correct (but only for street lv dudes, though I might be able to ask someone who ***** with supes, let me try him).

Here. Don't just read the English panel, that's just Viz mistranslating it. It has the original Japanese and translation. And no I don't believe Yamcha is a bad source because he's invested in the martial arts world and we do later see Roshi make a fool out of a 30th degree black belt in Kenpo. Goku's own fighting style uses a mixture of several (dozens?) of martial arts even before training under Roshi.

Roshi beating up one dude who's a master in one style ain't quite the same.
Goku's is obvious though. (Also that scan isn't loading so idk, I'll take your word thou).

As I said I don't think it's worth continuing to debate it until the Nightwing feat is proven. I brought it up in response to that being possibly real after all. Like it's basically off-topic unless that feat is sourced and we validate it.

I do, you claimed Goku has such good predictive skills he could tag someone 250,000x above in speed. Needless to say, no, either we solve it or I'm getting that whole feat tossed. And it is relevant anyway as it's Gokus best skill feat under your assertions involving the speed discrepancy.

Midnighter.

I should be able to find some of his scans actually. I have Batman beating his ass at least if we can figure Batman scaling out.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I was looking for it but couldn't find anything on any page or respect thread. So I reread what he posted and saw he really said nightwing Beat someone who could predict millions of moves. so I think he's talking about Midnighter.

Well in that case I'm going to need to see the scans and context behind Nightwing beating Midnighter. This is the source for it apparently, which allows him to think of the best possible move and react with. My current issue with that is if Midnighter's skills are beneath Nightwing's then even Midnighter's best moves would logically not work on Nightwing. Like if Nightwing is skilled that doesn't inherently mean he thinks of 'one million moves a second' it would just mean his first move trumps Midnighter's first move.

And is the fight something in Pre-Crisis? Does that statement apply to a 'Pre-Crisis Midnighter'?

 

[Chariot190]

I exist in a world with 2-A Ash Ketchum

Say sike

 

[Jason_Courne]

Nightwing a million moves per second

Anyways this comes from Nightwing defeating Midnighter, a character who can run a million combat scenarios in his head before a fight has even started

However scaling Nightwing to Midnighter is a bit messy, I think their only fight is in the Grayson series where he was working for Spyral and had some nonstandard tech

 

[CryoTheMayo]

It's relevant because without even basic supes supercomputer predictive statements is enough?

Depends. Predictive statements can't predict something unexpected for example.

And it's still an argument for Goku I'm contesting.

Just ask bro

Seems Knifeman figured it out so no need anymore.

Hey, people are trying , fixing a DC profile takes hundreds of times longer than a manga one. ***** M3X has been working on PC Batman since February (I helped a bit ).

Sounds pretty brutal, rn DB is working on a Ki blog and I believe a Speed blog but our verse is pretty linear compared to comics.

Roshi beating up one dude who's a master in one style ain't quite the same.
Goku's is obvious though. (Also that scan isn't loading so idk, I'll take your word thou).

The reason I brought it up is because Kenpo apparently only goes to the 10th degree IRL which implies the guy he skill-stomped is vastly superior to any practitioner of it IRL.

I do, you claimed Goku has such good predictive skills he could tag someone 250,000x above in speed. Needless to say, no, either we solve it or I'm getting that whole feat tossed. And it is relevant anyway as it's Gokus best skill feat under your assertions involving the speed discrepancy.

I have no incentive to debate that for this thread and I'm not going to care if you make a revision or something for it.

I should be able to find some of his scans actually. I have Batman beating his ass at least if we can figure Batman scaling out.

Would be appreciated.

 

[Spilxson2]

Would it be unfair if I gave Superman prior knowledge of Goku's attack potency? I still have no idea how his Ability Creation or "Super Mathematics" and "Super Hypnosis" can come into play here

 

[Chariot190]

Batman scaling here we go
(Or Deathstroke).

The reason I brought it up is because Kenpo apparently only goes to the 10th degree IRL which implies the guy he skill-stomped is vastly superior to any practitioner of it IRL.

That's notable, although ultimately unknown.

I have no incentive to debate that for this thread and I'm not going to care if you make a revision or something for it.

So are we foregoing that feat then? Because otherwise we're gonna have to.

Seems Knifeman figured it out so no need anymore.

Did you not know who Midnighter was? Well I guess that's fair, he's kinda niche...

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Say sike

He's straight up 2-B, likely 2-A. Yeah...

Anyways this comes from Nightwing defeating Midnighter, a character who can run a million combat scenarios in his head before a fight has even started

However scaling Nightwing to Midnighter is a bit messy, I think their only fight is in the Grayson series where he was working for Spyral and had some nonstandard tech

As I said above even if this scaled to PC Superman I would still find it odd because if Midnighter's abilities are going to only be as useful as his own combat skill. If Nightwing has superior skill then Midnighter's best scenarios aren't going to cut it.

Plus if this is from the Grayson series that's way after Pre-Crisis so I don't see how this scales to Pre-Crisis Superman?

Would it be unfair if I gave Superman prior knowledge of Goku's attack potency? I still have no idea how his Ability Creation or "Super Mathematics" and "Super Hypnosis" can come into play here

Honestly this might make it a stomp in Superman's favour. Goku starts in Base and tends to hold back earlier on in fights when IC so Superman could hax him instantly, like the BFR punch, knowing he's too powerful to stop otherwise.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

So are we foregoing that feat then? Because otherwise we're gonna have to.

First I'd like to see whether this Midnighter scaling actually applies to Pre-Crisis Superman. If it does then I would have reason to want to argue for Goku's ability to read the moves of faster opponents.

Did you not know who Midnighter was? Well I guess that's fair, he's kinda niche...

I was aware of Midnighter but I have no real knowledge of him.

 

[Chariot190]

First I'd like to see whether this Midnighter scaling actually applies to Pre-Crisis Superman. If it does then I would have reason to want to argue for Goku's ability to read the moves of faster opponents.

You're going to have to regardless? This isn't like the only thing supes has going for him, we could ditch every mention in this thread, and subsequently find ten dozen other skill feats or dumb precog shit to substantiate it.

We're evidently going to need to discuss the Hit feat no matter what happens.

 

[Spilxson2]

Honestly this might make it a stomp in Superman's favour. Goku starts in Base and tends to hold back earlier on in fights when IC so Superman could hax him instantly, like the BFR punch, knowing he's too powerful to stop otherwise.

If Goku DOES have more skill than Superman, wouldn't he be able to dodge the punch?

 

[Jason_Courne]

Plus if this is from the Grayson series that's way after Pre-Crisis so I don't see how this scales to Pre-Crisis Superman?

Yeah, the fight came from the Grayson series, which takes place in the New 52 or Prime Earth

So there's no reason to scale Pre-Crisis Superman to it

 

[Knifeman29]

Is Goku's cold resistence good enough to deal with supes' ice breath?

 

[Spilxson2]

Should I make the fight take place on an indestructible planet? I think if Superman sneezes Goku would survive but suffocate in space

 

[CryoTheMayo]

If Goku DOES have more skill than Superman, wouldn't he be able to dodge the punch?

In theory, yes but that isn't Superman's first move and Goku could reasonably have gauged Superman's abilities and defeated him by the time Superman realises he needs to resort to his hax. If Superman knows Goku is that dangerous he can resort to his hax immediately.

So I don't know if Goku can dodge all of Superman's BFR punches in his base form or not. Goku is more skilled but their speed is equalised and Superman does have a super brain and all that. It would seem odd if I claimed Superman couldn't land even a single blow on Goku.

At that point it depends on what happens first. Does Goku go Super Saiyan or does Superman finally land a BFR Punch or any of his other hax? I don't really know. If Goku is just aiming to win he might go Super Saiyan after dodging a few blows and gauging Superman's strength and then he could one shot.

So, I could lean towards an Inconclusive vote unless sufficient evidence is provided. for either scenario being more likely.

Yeah, the fight came from the Grayson series, which takes place in the New 52 or Prime Earth

So there's no reason to scale Pre-Crisis Superman to it

Alright so unless it's proven this somehow applies to Pre-Crisis Superman, I consider that feat irrelevant.

Should I make the fight take place on an indestructible planet? I think if Superman sneezes Goku would survive but suffocate in space

Tbh I feel like this fight shouldn't continue because Superman's profile is anorexic. It's a good concept but I think it'd be fairer and less stressful for Superman supporters if we just waited for his profile to be revised fully.

 

[Spilxson2]

In theory, yes but that isn't Superman's first move and Goku could reasonably have gauged Superman's abilities and defeated him by the time Superman realises he needs to resort to his hax. If Superman knows Goku is that dangerous he can resort to his hax immediately.

So I don't know if Goku can dodge all of Superman's BFR punches in his base form or not. Goku is more skilled but their speed is equalised and Superman does have a super brain and all that. It would seem odd if I claimed Superman couldn't land even a single blow on Goku.

At that point it depends on what happens first. Does Goku go Super Saiyan or does Superman finally land a BFR Punch or any of his other hax? I don't really know. If Goku is just aiming to win he might go Super Saiyan after dodging a few blows and gauging Superman's strength and then he could one shot.

So, I could lean towards an Inconclusive vote unless sufficient evidence is provided. for either scenario being more likely.

So do you vote Inconclusive now or do you still keep your vote for Goku?

Tbh I feel like this fight shouldn't continue because Superman's profile is anorexic. It's a good concept but I think it'd be fairer and less stressful for Superman supporters if we just waited for his profile to be revised fully.

Wait, it's still under revision?