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Yet another Goku vs Superman Thread (7-3-0)
- Thread starter Spilxson2
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You'd be waiting like a good year, or two.
(Tbh why I only **** with Batman, at least I have his shit saved).
Hippie Nightwing has thrown hands, though, we kinda need Supes scaling to Batman for that to matter anyway.
Well, Pre HAS ****** with Post before, so there's a semblance of scaling there. But it wouldn't matter if Batman scaling can't be proven.
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I'm keeping it to Goku for now because I still believe he is more skilled and that he can enhance his speed via Afterimage. It just really depends if Goku decides to go Super Saiyan before Superman manages to land a blow. When I say I'm 'leaning to Inconclusive' I'm saying I could be swayed.
To my understanding DC has been undergoing verse-wide revisions for um...has it been years? And Pre-Crisis Superman's profile is pretty bad looking. I recall it having way more abilities, statements, etc in the past and that it got neutered for said revisions.
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I do not think we have even ONE complete DC profile that isn't a niche dude, extremely recent, or like Cass iirc.
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Yeah...I recall waiting years for the Elder Scrolls blogs to be finished. Hasn't it already taken years since the revisions for DC started?
Yeah if we can get clear scaling to Batman we can start to really cook with the Superman side.
Well I'm not interested in checking the threads right now but Manga DBS Goku beat Wonder Woman via his 4-B key and was Inconclusive with Post-Crisis Superman in his 4-B key.
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Yeah...it's pretty rough out here. I find it really funny that Pre-Crisis Superman got downgraded from 2-A to 2-C when Ash Ketchum got upgraded to 2-B, likely 2-A.
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- Thread starter
- #129
I don't even know in whose favor
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Isn't that his pokemon team
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I highlighted it for you
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Nah that's the COSMOLOGY shit you thinking of, individual profiles? Lmao.
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- Thread starter
- #133
They're both 2-A, but after the DC downgrade I found out that 2-A and Immeasurable speed have layers and stuff so I thought it would've been somewhat fair
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I would guess he means Xeno Goku because um...Well, just take a look.
He has MFTL+ to Infinite reaction speed (scaled to his Pokemon) and 'Unknown' durability because he consistently tanks attacks from his own pokemon, which would also include his '2-A' team. So he does scale to them in terms of reactions and possibly durability.
Ouch.
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Not my job to substantiate your arguments with evidence. Plus someone else sourced the 'million thoughts' thing and it doesn't apply to Pre-Crisis Superman. So unless you come up with an argument for that you can skip it.
Any scans of Pre-Crisis Superman scaling to Batman would still be appreciated either way.
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Big thread, not gonna read it, im gonna vote superman. Speed equalization aside, superman being able to fly through both time and dimensions is far beyond anything goku can do in terms of speed. He also has a lot more abilities and hax compared to Goku as well. Heat Vision, Ice Breath, Deconstruction, Intangibility, Shapeshifting and BEING ABLE TO PUNCH PEOPLE THROUGH TIME.
Also he apparently can create new superpowers... so yeah.... thats a thing.
Superman uses his new power of Super-Cooking to make a banquet for Goku, then sucker punches the Saiyan out of time when the latter becomes distracted by the food.
Also he apparently can create new superpowers... so yeah.... thats a thing.
Superman uses his new power of Super-Cooking to make a banquet for Goku, then sucker punches the Saiyan out of time when the latter becomes distracted by the food.
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Well Pre-Crisis Superman is a bit weird to debate because of his profile being lacking but Goku would likely skip straight to Super Saiyan at least, which should put Superman in one shot territory. He has no need to test himself or Superman when he already knows what Superman can do.
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Most of that requires Superman to hit Goku in hand-to-hand before Goku does when Goku can enhance his speed, transform and has superior skill. The ability to 'make new superpowers' should only include what he has actually done, otherwise we enter NLF territory.
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It should apply to pre crisis because pre crisis and post crisis superman are p much the same in every regard (but this is controversial)
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This isn't on his profile and Nightwing's feat is from the Grayson series which is long after Pre-Crisis. You can add Pre-Crisis to Post-Crisis in theory but retroactively giving Pre-Crisis abilities for feats after Pre-Crisis is nonsensical.
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It should realistically apply to him since they are the exact same in scaling, and there feats aren't different either and should scale to each other but again this is controversial
If you go solely off profiles Goku being above is reasonable that's true
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I ain't gonna try to convince vsbw of scaling pre crisis and post crisis superman the same either way never be accepted
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There is zero evidence that Pre-Crisis Nightwing and Post-Crisis Nightwing have identical abilities. Infact, I see Post-Crisis Batman is 9-A while Post-Flashpoint Batman is 8-C and they have wildly varying abilities, technologies and so on. So why would I assume Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis have identical martial arts abilities?
Post-Crisis inherits Pre-Crisis? Okay.
Pre-Crisis retroactively inheriting Post-Crisis? Nah.
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Current Batman is actually a composite. And as said Post Crisis Batman is being overhauled by M3X, and I'm actually cooking up some PFP stuff myself too given I read it all recently.
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While I don't know much about it but I did try looking up past posts and all I could find was Ant saying he had a 'lot of weird abilities' and
Superman apparently getting the wrong answer with his 'Super Mathematics'. At the very least there is this feat...which is the one where he apparently screwed up the math.
I see, well what are your thoughts on retroactively applying Post-Flashpoint Grayson's feats (From a 2014-2016 comic) to Pre-Crisis Superman? Is there any basis to that idea?
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It's Ressurection of F saga. His transformations are simple power ups at this point. Also Superman learned martial arts as well and is quite adept at using his powers, so its not like skill is going to be an important factor in this matchup.
1. I do not care.
2. Its SUPER-cooking. Its SUPERman. If SUPER-man can't SUPER cook, then what is he even doing with his life?
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- Thread starter
- #154
Oh. I guess however it works, it's not combat applicable
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Deconstruction as well. Superman can do it in a single punch. Also transmutation but its considered limited so idk if its a guaranteed to work.
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- #157
Yeah the Transmutation is weird but everything else should still work
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For Batman, there's definitely a case, between straight up encountering, throwing hands and stated.
Nightwing idk, I'd assume he shouldn't be wildly different given he's still trained by Batman in all 3, and if Batman is only marginally different, he shouldn't be either by proxy. I personally wouldn't though unless it's Infinite just to be safe.
Superman though is an odd case because pretty sure he's ****** with his Post self, and if his Post self has ****** with dudes above Nightwing, like WW, it's a tad roundabout but you could probably get shit going.
Was talking about Post, but really? Wtf. I can cook one up though, it'll be like a year to go through everything and compile but I can figure it out.
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His speed and power multiplies by 50x in just Super Saiyan 1 and over 500x in Super Saiyan 2. Superman is seemingly only baseline 3 2-C on the VS Wiki.
Saying Superman 'learned martial arts' and 'is adept at using his powers' doesn't mean much on its own, especially not when Goku was already a master of martial arts as a small child and was declared a greater martial artist his grandfather, who was stated to have mastered all martial arts on Earth.
As for it being a factor, it is. If Goku is significantly more skilled than Superman then Superman is going to have a hard time using most of his hax which relies on him punching his opponent. Because Goku specialises in martial arts. And if Goku goes even Super Saiyan 1 the fight is basically over.
I don't care that you don't care.
I mean it's not on his profile from what I can see. It will probably be added whenever the revisions get around to his profile? That's part of why I feel like this thread should just be locked because Superman's profile is practically barren.
Deconstruction isn't really a new win con because it's done via attacking Goku physically. It's no different from beating Goku via BFR. Same conditions to make it work with different results that should both defeat Goku. It all depends on Superman being able to hit Goku before Goku beats him and whether Goku goes Super Saiyan or not.
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Hmm
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