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Yellow Hedgehog Swordsman VS Yellow Monke Swordsman (CONCLUDED)

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Gabs22_Gamer said:
Except that Excalibur's powers doesn't only extent from magical properties, and I have addressed this in another comment, Caliburn alone can already cancel out Lancelot's Chaos Blast by blocking with a forcefield (which btw isn't magic), the limit of Excalibur's power is not stated to be limited to magical sources both in-game and by the OG storybook.
Click to expand...
Seems to be a product of Forcefield Durability rather than Hax (Power Nullification)

Essentially my point is
Creating a forcefield to withstand the force of an attack is no proof of power nullification hax, it just goes to show it has some really good defense that can withstand THAT FORCE/LEVEL of AP

Forcefields in general sometimes portray this power nulling effect anyways (Example Android 17 Nulling Ki Attacks that his Barrier Blocks) but that often isn't the case, it's simply just really good defense.
 
SemiRaedi said:
Because Sonic's profile doesn't state what your saying at all, "Attack Reflection (Can reflect magical attacks), Power Nullification (Can shatter magic barriers with sword attacks"
Click to expand...
A statement from the page is not automatically assumed to be limitations either, towards scans, I can show out this gif if you have doubts.

Shadow, as shown inside of direct visuals and gameplays, uses direct Soul energy to perform Chaos Blast. (Which extents from Chi Manip) and Caliburn's power alone without the other sacred swords can cancel it out by simply blocking around, Excalibur by itself is way more powerful than Caliburn to a point that it's not even funny, as it can shatter energy barriers by simply slashing around, It can also extent itself from higher reach with body control afaik.
Ss3micah said:
Seems to be a product of Forcefield Durability rather than Hax (Power Nullification)
Click to expand...
Because once again, I'm trying to prove that Excalibur's power does not only extent from magical sources, even in the game it's not even stated to have this limit.
Ss3micah said:
One more thing
Chaos Energy isn't magic BUT it certainly isn't Ki either
Click to expand...
Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.

Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses. For example, mind control resistance by being a capable mind user would also work against other Verses, but mind control resistance through a strong will would not necessarily work against mind control from other Verses. It is also important to note that characters won't lose or gain any abilities or resistances which they do or do not inherently possess. However, if an ability has a weakness, condition, caveat, or limitation, consistently shown throughout its use (such as not working on characters under a specific condition, like energy gap) or stated by a valid and uncontradicted statement, then it should be applicable after the equalization.

Equalization works highly on a case-by-case basis, so many relevant cases should be discussed in the versus thread itself.
Click to expand...
We have verse equalization rules stated inside of SBA for an actual reason, and Sonic isn't entirely a different case by itself, as Excalibur doesn't show to only work on magical properties.
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
I can show out this gif if you have doubts.
Click to expand...
Doubts No, Questions Yes
Gabs22_Gamer said:

Shadow, as shown inside of direct visuals and gameplays, uses direct Soul energy to perform Chaos Blast. (Which extents from Chi Manip) and Caliburn's power alone without the other sacred swords can cancel it out by simply blocking around, Excalibur by itself is way more powerful than Caliburn to a point that it's not even funny, as it can shatter energy barriers by simply slashing around, It can also extent itself from higher reach with body control afaik.
Click to expand...

Nice (y)
But I got problems with what I see and your explanation so hear goes ntn

1. That seems to be sonic just being able to Force Charge through Chaos Blast Rather than outright cancelling. I'm not saying it isn't but just based on the visual perspective alone it really can be interpreted differently and it really doesn't seem to be cancelling. Goku and others have done things similar to this already and it isn't considered nullification,
2. Chaos Energy extends from the Energy Manipulation Page not the Chi Manipulation Page
3. Where Barrier At???
4. Magic Barriers NOT Energy Barriers and if it does so by slashing around then he's toast because I don't see how he's gonna get around AoE Shockwaves and Ki Waves

Gabs22_Gamer said:
Because once again, I'm trying to prove that Excalibur's power does not only extent from magical sources, even in the game it's not even stated to have this limit.
Click to expand...
This I suppose is a solid point
Gabs22_Gamer said:
We have verse equalization rules stated inside of SBA for an actual reason, and Sonic isn't entirely a different case by itself, as Excalibur doesn't show to only work on magical properties.
Click to expand...
Except DB Makes a clear distinction that Ki and Magic aren't the same thing and IIRC Sonic doesn't either
 
Also I just checked around the site and other sites a couple times now and none mention caliburn being able to outright (or in any right at all) being able to null/cancel energy

If you have a statement by caliburn or any other character that says he can do this I'll accept
Because visual representation isn't convincing (and evidently it never convinced the mods either otherwise caliburn would have what your saying on his profile)
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
That is appealing to authority
Click to expand...
Is that a bad thing??? (No I'm serious, is that bad???)
I'm just trying to be as fair and firm as possible
Plus according to standards (I think) you can't allow characters to use abilities that isn't on their profile
If they have an ability that isn't on their profiles then a CTR should be done so it can be added and then used
 
Ss3micah said:
That seems to be sonic just being able to Force Charge through Chaos Blast Rather than outright cancelling. I'm not saying it isn't but just based on the visual perspective alone it really can be interpreted differently and it really doesn't seem to be cancelling. Goku and others have done things similar to this already and it isn't considered nullification,
Click to expand...
Because is blocking it by using a forcefield, Shadow does use Soul Energy to perform Chaos Blast in his Lancelot counterpart, from my pov you don't seem to have played by yourself to take presumptions ouf of nowhere. As even the page itself doesn't state that Excalibur has any kind of notable weakness towards those abilities that people just assumed out of nowhere without even taking questions in mind to confirm it's hypothesis.
Ss3micah said:
Chaos Energy extends from the Energy Manipulation Page not the Chi Manipulation Page
Click to expand...
Dragon Ball does also not have any different portrayal in Chi for this entire environment, as it's still considered energy, this is where verse equalization applies, chief, since in this case Chaos Energy and Chi are going to be assumed on the same pattern because they are still forms of energy that any other specific verse applies.
Ss3micah said:
Where Barrier At???
Click to expand...
You seem to actually misunderstand the point here, the gif I showed is an actual distinction of how Excalibur's power null is not AP-based, compared to the Caliburn which arsenal is way more limited in it's boundaries compared to the sacred swords combined, in fact, Excalibur's power is stated to be able to cut anything in it's vicinity. Excalibur's power alone completely nullified the Dark Queen's barriers by simply slashing, there's no need to even contest this point.
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
Dragon Ball does also not have any different portrayal in Chi for this entire environment, as it's still considered energy, this is where verse equalization applies, chief, since in this case Chaos Energy and Chi are going to be assumed on the same pattern because they are still forms of energy that any other specific verse applies.
Click to expand...
How does chaos energy work? Because you can't just equalise every type of energy just because it's energy.

Ki in dragon ball is stated to be (from the dragon ball wiki), "Ki is also known as "latent energy" or "fighting power," which directly translates as "life force." This force is a tangible energy inside every living being, with its major focus being in the center of the body. By drawing it out, an individual is able to manipulate it and use it outside the body."

Afaik, chaos energy is not similar to this and therefore cannot be equalised in the same way that chakra would via having similar mechanics to how ki works in dragon ball.

Could you provide a description of chaos energy that is similar to ki so that it can actually be equalised because I don't see them being similar enough to apply equalisation
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
You seem to actually misunderstand the point here, the gif I showed is an actual distinction of how Excalibur's power null is not AP-based, compared to the Caliburn which arsenal is way more limited in it's boundaries compared to the sacred swords combined, in fact, Excalibur's power is stated to be able to cut anything in it's vicinity. Excalibur's power alone completely nullified the Dark Queen's barriers by simply slashing, there's no need to even contest this point.
Click to expand...
I know it's not AP based

Side Note (not really important):

Being able to CUT THROUGH ANYTHING needs context when it comes to VBW and I could also bring up multiple characters who said the same thing without it being true and leads to wank, not saying that's what your doing but I'm just pointing out that is an upper limit to Excalibur can cut and can't cut on VBW
It's like saying Excalibur would be able to cut through something/someone with 3-A durability despite not having the Tiering Necessary nor having Durability Negation.

Excalibur can cut through anything but when it comes to debates outside of the verse that statement needs some burden of proof behind it otherwise Omnipotent Characters in verses would all be 1-A and characters who claim they can cut through anything (without durability negation) would lead to NLF as you wouldn't be able to justify a Tier 4 weapon cutting Tier 3 Durability just because of a can cut anything statement

Excalibur nulling Dark Queens Magic Barrier is why it was power nullification and that's expected given it (Excalibur) is magical in nature. What I want to know is can it null energy and NOT Energy Barriers but Wide Range AoE Ki Based Explosions and Psuedo-Intangible Shockwaves
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
As even the page itself doesn't state that Excalibur has any kind of notable weakness towards those abilities that people just assumed out of nowhere without even taking questions in mind to confirm it's hypothesis.
Click to expand...
Not a good Argument honestly
Many Profiles on VBW has no notable weaknesses simply because it's hard to find any definitive weaknesses
 
SemiRaedi said:
How does chaos energy work? Because you can't just equalise every type of energy just because it's energy.

Ki in dragon ball is stated to be (from the dragon ball wiki), "Ki is also known as "latent energy" or "fighting power," which directly translates as "life force." This force is a tangible energy inside every living being, with its major focus being in the center of the body. By drawing it out, an individual is able to manipulate it and use it outside the body."

Afaik, chaos energy is not similar to this and therefore cannot be equalised in the same way that chakra would via having similar mechanics to how ki works in dragon ball.

Could you provide a description of chaos energy that is similar to ki so that it can actually be equalised because I don't see them being similar enough to apply equalisation
Click to expand...
Chaos Energy is just portrayed in the way of being simply energy provided from the Chaos Emeralds themselves, they don't have so many special properties aside from them being simply considered energy to empower the user for a higher reach, collecting the emeralds, turn thoughts into power. Shadow is a bio-android with the natural ability to manipulate chaos energy, it's just portrayed on this way because yes.
Ss3micah said:
Excalibur nulling Dark Queens Magic Barrier is why it was power nullification and that's expected given it (Excalibur) is magical in nature. What I want to know is can it null energy and NOT Energy Barriers but Wide Range AoE Ki Based Explosions and Psuedo-Intangible Shockwaves
Click to expand...
Argument from ignorance, the weakness of Excalibur's ability simply working inside of magic is not even stated by Sonic's profile, people assumed out of nowhere because of the description it has because again, statements are not limitations. In this sense, and even Sonic can already manipulate Chi by himself, the sword isn't any different from this specific purpose.

Also, Excalibur's statement from being able to cut through any kind of material without time directly consuming it, Sonic uses an unnamed move against the Dark Queen in grace.
 
Last edited:
Gabs22_Gamer said:
the weakness of Excalibur's ability simply working inside of magic is not even stated by Sonic's profile,
Click to expand...
It's not. Its stated in Caliburn/Excalibur's Profile that his Power Nullification is specifically oriented for Magic (more specifically magic barriers) and as you can see Caliburn/Excalibur has a specific Tier which already limits what he can and CANT cut through as well as no Durability Negation
Gabs22_Gamer said:
people assumed out of nowhere because of the description it has because again, statements are not limitations.
Click to expand...
They in fact are limitations depending on it's usage. Example Goku and Beerus statements of destroying the universe is why they have 3-A BUT THAT ALSO LIMITS THEM TO THAT SPECIFIC TIER as the statement specifically said Universe not Multiverse and without exposition you can't assume its any higher
Gabs22_Gamer said:
In this sense, and even Sonic can already manipulate Chi by himself, the sword isn't any different from this specific purpose.
Click to expand...
Sonic doesn't have Chi manipulation on his profile
 
Ss3micah said:
It's not. Its stated in Caliburn/Excalibur's Profile that his Power Nullification is specifically oriented for Magic (more specifically magic barriers) and as you can see Caliburn/Excalibur has a specific Tier which already limits what he can and CANT cut through as well as no Durability Negation
Click to expand...
The wording in the page leads people to think that it's limited through magic, even though that's just blatantly wrong, as I proved in other comments that the extent of these abilities are not limited by this power source alone.
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
The wording in the page leads people to think that it's limited through magic, even though that's just blatantly wrong, as I proved in other comments that the extent of these abilities are not limited by this power source alone.
Click to expand...
Not saying your wrong but what your scan showed can be interpreted TOO many different ways with just visuals alone and no statements by caliburn himself, characters statements and in game statements to back it up.

I'd like to say that I believe Caliburn can affect energy yes I'll admit to that
But saying he can outright cancel it is still somewhat vague and dubious especially since nothing in game ever mentions him having the ability to do so

Regardless I don't think its allowed to use abilities that characters don't have on the profiles so if anything we can pause this debate, make a ctr, get energy nullification added and then come back to this debate later on
That doesn't seem like a bad idea IMO
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
If the sword has only shown to nullify magic barriers, why are you assuming it can also null ki blasts when it hasn't shown to do so?
Click to expand...
Because even Caliburn alone can already intercept ki based attacks from the Knights of the Round Table, and Excalibur in the game is portrayed in the way of the OG Arthurian Legend, for further information on this subject.

The move got it's name in Sonic Forces: Speed Battle as Meteor Charge, it essentially allows Excalibur to cut through any kind of material, which is exactly how it's described by the legend's lore.
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
Because even Caliburn alone can already intercept ki based attacks from the Knights of the Round Table, and Excalibur in the game is portrayed in the way of the OG Arthurian Legend, for further information on this subject.

The move got it's name in Sonic Forces: Speed Battle as Meteor Charge, it essentially allows Excalibur to cut through any kind of material, which is exactly how it's described by the legend's lore.
Click to expand...

CUTTING THROUGH ANY MATERIAL
Would not work on VBW unless Excalibur has Dura Neg (It doesn't) and if the Durability in Question is Higher than Excalibur's AP
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
Because even Caliburn alone can already intercept ki based attacks from the Knights of the Round Table, and Excalibur in the game is portrayed in the way of the OG Arthurian Legend, for further information on this subject.

The move got it's name in Sonic Forces: Speed Battle as Meteor Charge, it essentially allows Excalibur to cut through any kind of material, which is exactly how it's described by the legend's lore.
Click to expand...

Also just gonna say it Right Now
On VBW, Knights of the Round don't have Ki/Chi Manipulation

Example 1
Example 2
 
Ss3micah said:
Also just gonna say it Right Now
On VBW, Knights of the Round don't have Ki/Chi Manipulation

Example 1
Example 2
Click to expand...
They actually have.
sonic.fandom.com

Soul Gauge energy

Soul Gauge energy, or just Soul, is a subject that appears in the Sonic Storybook series. It is a form of energy used for special attacks. No explanation has been given to what properties Soul Gauge energy holds, although its name would imply it is derived from one's soul. In gameplay, the...
sonic.fandom.com sonic.fandom.com
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
Because even Caliburn alone can already intercept ki based attacks from the Knights of the Round Table, and Excalibur in the game is portrayed in the way of the OG Arthurian Legend, for further information on this subject.

The move got it's name in Sonic Forces: Speed Battle as Meteor Charge, it essentially allows Excalibur to cut through any kind of material, which is exactly how it's described by the legend's lore.
Click to expand...

some different sword intercepting a ki based attack (if it's actually even ki based) doesn't equal equal excalibur power nullifying a ki based attack.
Cutting through any material is not power null nor has it got anything to do with ki energy. That's just a NLF.
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
It's not, because the power null from it is not AP-based.
Click to expand...
The power null from it whether your right or wrong only affects Magic Barriers and until a CTR is done to make adjustments/corrections, I don't think you can act out on the hypothesis of it power nulling Ki and not just Ki based barriers but Ki as a whole

It would look suspicious to give a character a win when their win con was something note stated on the profiles
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
some different sword intercepting a ki based attack (if it's actually even ki based) doesn't equal equal excalibur power nullifying a ki based attack.
Cutting through any material is not power null nor has it got anything to do with ki energy. That's just a NLF.
Click to expand...
Excalibur is originated from the power of the other swords, including Caliburn's own, your example is simply false equivalence.
 
Ss3micah said:
The power null from it whether your right or wrong only affects Magic Barriers and until a CTR is done to make adjustments/corrections, I don't think you can act out on the hypothesis of it power nulling Ki and not just Ki based barriers but Ki as a whole

It would look suspicious to give a character a win when their win con was something note stated on the profiles
Click to expand...
The weakness of affeting only magical barriers is not listed, and it's power is not even limited to this extension, you're just trying to make ad nauseam at this point.
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
They actually have.
sonic.fandom.com

Soul Gauge energy

Soul Gauge energy, or just Soul, is a subject that appears in the Sonic Storybook series. It is a form of energy used for special attacks. No explanation has been given to what properties Soul Gauge energy holds, although its name would imply it is derived from one's soul. In gameplay, the...
sonic.fandom.com sonic.fandom.com
Click to expand...
No explanation has been given to what properties Soul Gauge energy holds, although its name would imply it is derived from one's soul.

Chi Manipulation is the power to manipulate the vital energy coursing within living organism and that constitutes health,

Hence why they have Energy manipulation and not Chi Manipulation
Ichigo uses energy DIRECTLY from his soul and doesn't have Chi Manipulation
Well he does actually but a different extent so I guess it counts
 
Ss3micah said:
No explanation has been given to what properties Soul Gauge energy holds, although its name would imply it is derived from one's soul.

Chi Manipulation is the power to manipulate the vital energy coursing within living organism and that constitutes health,

Hence why they have Energy manipulation and not Chi Manipulation
Ichigo uses energy DIRECTLY from his soul and doesn't have Chi Manipulation
Well he does actually but a different extent so I guess it counts
Click to expand...
I think a CTR needs to be done to give them Chi Manipulation
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
Excalibur is originated from the power of the other swords, including Caliburn's own, your example is simply false equivalence.
Click to expand...
Originating from other swords doesn't mean it has the exact same abilities especially since it's a different sword, and besides they don't even have an example of nulling ki, so why are you assuming it has an ability that it has never displayed before? False equivalence? Bro where?
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Originating from other swords doesn't mean it has the exact same abilities especially since it's a different sword, and besides they don't even have an example of nulling ki, so why are you assuming it has an ability that it has never displayed before? False equivalence? Bro where?
Click to expand...
Because it's power is superior to the other swords in abilities as Excalibur is directly originated from those, that's like trying to say that Solaris doesn't have Mephiles and Iblis's abilities despite them being parts of him.
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
The weakness of affeting only magical barriers is not listed, and it's power is not even limited to this extension, you're just trying to make ad nauseam at this point.
Click to expand...
NO WEAKNESS IS LISTED
That doesn't mean that it's capable of doing anything without further context and supporting evidence to back it up AND THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT INVINCIBLE EITHER

ALSO
Being able to Nullify Ki attacks is ALSO not listed and you can't say that's the case until a CTR is done to get those things added
It's just the rule of how things work
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
Because it's power is superior to the other swords in abilities as Excalibur is directly originated from those, that's like trying to say that Solaris doesn't have Mephiles and Iblis's abilities despite them being parts of him.
Click to expand...
Excalibur is the transformation of Caliburn, created by merging with the three other sacred swords; Arondight, Galatine and Laevatein.

He's Right
 
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