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Yellow Hedgehog Swordsman VS Yellow Monke Swordsman (CONCLUDED)

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ShakeResounding said:
That bull rush is gonna be entirely ineffective when Sonic just counters everything Trunks has to offer. Not to mention Sonic doesn't need the entire Soul Gauge to be filled to have it kick into action, he just needs above a tiny threshold.
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Sonic rendering bull rush Ki onslaught is really based on his reaction speed, instinctive movements and agility + mobility. However all these things get negged by Shockwaves and Ki Waves because they are Expansive AoE that covers the entire area. Sonic would have to outrun it in order to not get caught which he most likely can. But in a speed equal match, it's gonna be nigh-impossible to evade when sonic tries to come up front, close and personal to slice at Trunks and Trunks responds with point blank AoE attack.

Sonic would have to stay at a distance and strike with ranged attacks which trunks could very well dodge as if he decides to come too close he puts himself at serious risks

Also I'm aware that sonic can enter soul surge without the bar being full, my point was that the less amount of soul energy sonic enters soul surge with, the quicker it expires.
 
ShakeResounding said:
Not with Soul Surge, which Sonic is gonna reap so much of from Trunks due to the way he fights.
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Didn't you say that was like immortality type 2? If trunks one shots then he won't just defeat sonic, he is more like gonna vaporize him or slice him in half which is a state sonic can't fight in, I know we discussed this but trunks can do it.
ShakeResounding said:
Discussed this in length above, not true
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He can't the AP gap is more than 7.6x and trunks scales high above that value.
ShakeResounding said:
Not a chance. Sonic's seen everything Trunks has and has dealt with far more at once. Trunks pales in comparison to character's he's fought before, ALL Trunks has is AP at this point. And Sonic's cautious, analytical fighting is kicked up to eleven in this key to boot.
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Trunks is also extremely skilled, skill isn't enough to prevent from getting attacked. And trunks has things like shockwaves and omnidirectional ki blasts which sonic can't dodge, as well as danmaku and stuff.
ShakeResounding said:
So vastly out of character that I'm not even gonna factor this in. Not to mention Sonic's Danger Sense will cover his ass when his eyes can't even if he DOES use it, which is already vastly unlikely.
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Actually not, kiai is such a wide technique it has so many applications, the most basic one is creating a shockwave by powering up, sonic can't stop that lol.
 
Ss3micah said:
Sonic has lots of speed, agility, mobility and experience edges over trunks. He can use those to keep trunks from hitting him with a solid attack and just rope trunks into tiring himself out. Then when the chance arrives he can use the excalibur to slice trunks in two (if its AP is relatively greater than Trunks durability (which I kind of doubt) and if it doesn't have the AP to slice/pierce Trunks' Durability sonic is going to have to find other methods)
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He just needs to keep the fight going on long enough once enough energy is transferred for him to perform a one-shot attack. That's an ability called the one-shot gauge, which is entirely different from his Soul Surge related abilities.

Also, Excalibur's abilities being limited to work inside of magical power sources is just pretty inconvenient, since it's never stated inside of Black Knight that the extent of Excalibur's powers only works on magical properties and the sword is said to be able to cut through anything in it's front. That's stated by the Caliburn himself and by the lore of the storybooks which are canon to Sonic due to SEGA making direct posts towards it.
 
For all those who are currently voting please keep this in mind
Neither character has a decisive win con. It all really comes down to sheer skill and a bit of luck

Sonic's win con is to Tire Out Trunks and then when an opportunity presents itself, strike him down with the Excalibur (though it still highly debatable if the Excalibur has the AP needed to do so because it gets it's AP via upscaling from numbers and Trunks upscales from higher numbers)
However sonic needs to be EXTREMELY careful when dealing with Trunks as trunks either has severely damaging or one shot AP and cqc for sonic his best way of attacking trunks (as trunks can very easily dodge ranged attacks) but also a very risky move as SPEED IS EQUAL and sonic is finished if he decides to get to close and Trunks retaliates with Point Blank Expansive AoE Shockwaves/Ki Wave which sonic which he won't be able to dodge and will be insanely difficult to outrun at that range and even then that alone becomes reason for sonic to avoid cqc and go for ranged attacks (which again Trunks can easily dodge)

Sonics soul surge may stir the outcome in his favor a bit however the Soul Surge itself will not last long enough and is something Trunks will definitely outlast. Sonic can recharge it during the midst of battle and use it at any given time but the less charge the soul energy is the less time sonic can stay in soul surge

Sonics only true way to way is to just outlast trunks with his limitless stamina and use his movements, wits, reactions and danger alerting abilities to wait trunks out till he exhausts himself and then strike the killing blow with Excalibur (which for reasons to vague and presumptuous, is very arguable if he could even do)


Trunks' case is entirely a different case

Trunks needs to hit sonic with at least one strike to cripple or one shot via sheer AP. Sonic will be hard to hit however thanks to his agility, mobility, reactions and danger sense abilities not to mention his EXP fighting vastly greater enemies who do pretty much the same Trunks does. The problem here is that speed is equal and that alone spells danger for sonic. I think sonic would have a jolly good time dodging trunks ranged attacks and probably even outmanning trunks in cqc via his analytical prediction. However sonic getting close to trunks is a problem because again trunks has AoE attacks that sonic wont be able to dodge cause AoE and a point blank attack is something sonic would have no answer for and Trunks' durability is also an arguable problem since their is no definitive way to say the Excaliber could one-shot trunks. Trunks could also spam Ki attacks and since speed is again EQUAL it's somewhat unrealistic to say that sonic will continue to successfully avoid each and every ki blast trunks sends his way and the AoE each Ki blast explosion would create. Sonics awareness abilities would be a trouble to deal with but not an outright impossible wall that can't be overcome

Trunks only chance is one-shot Sonic and quickly before he tires himself out. He has the means, the range and the AoE to do it. What determines if sonic gets hit though is if sonic even if only for a split second responds to one of trunks' attacks incorrect and therefore gets hit.



I'm staying Neutral for now cause it really depends on too many factors which would happen first
Trunks getting tired or sonic making one reckless move that costs him everything
 
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You missed one detail, trunks is constantly getting very fast and strong as time passes, so if sonic literally needs to keep outlasting then trunks keeps getting faster which makes it easier for him to land an attack, plus kiai also negates any attempts at dodging and trunks can do it.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
You missed one detail, trunks is constantly getting very fast and strong as time passes, so if sonic literally needs to keep outlasting then trunks keeps getting faster which makes it easier for him to land an attack, plus kiai also negates any attempts at dodging and trunks can do it.
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Trunks most definitely doesn't have what you described. He isn't like UI Goku whose power, speed and techniques are constantly refined as the battle goes on and Goku is getting closer and closer to Perfecting UI (and this continues with Perfected UI Goku as well)

Trunks' only way to get stronger or faster during battle is with zenkais, which require him to heal the damage first
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Trunks most definitely doesn't have what you described. He isn't like UI Goku whose power, speed and techniques are constantly refined as the battle goes on and Goku is getting closer and closer to Perfecting UI (and this continues with Perfected UI Goku as well)

Trunks' only way to get stronger or faster during battle is with zenkais, which require him to heal the damage first
Click to expand...
No... it's reactive power level. A saiyans normal ability to improve their power as they fight, literally all saiyans have it on their profiles. In fact caulifula is the poster girl for the entire reactive power level page.
Ultra instinct Goku just gets another layer of that and it's on steroids.
 
sanicspood said:
Coudlnt he just passively get stronger mid fight via saiyan biology?
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Not to this extent. Saiyans gets naturally stronger when they heal after suffering from a near death experiences. They don't passively increase their strength in other ways other than zenkais.

Unless the name is Broly, which is a special case since he's a legendary saiyan
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Not to this extent. Saiyans gets naturally stronger when they heal after suffering from a near death experiences. They don't passively increase their strength in other ways other than zenkais.

Unless the name is Broly, which is a special case since he's a legendary saiyan
Click to expand...
Oh yeah also broly gets another layer of that too, on top of saiyan biology.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
No... it's reactive power level. A saiyans normal ability to improve their power as they fight, literally all saiyans have it on their profiles. In fact caulifula is the poster girl for the entire reactive power level page.
Ultra instinct Goku just gets another layer of that and it's on steroids.
Click to expand...
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Not to this extent. Saiyans gets naturally stronger when they heal after suffering from a near death experiences. They don't passively increase their strength in other ways other than zenkais.

Unless the name is Broly, which is a special case since he's a legendary saiyan
Click to expand...
Your both right and both wrong in some regards

Saiyans do have access to RPL even in Z but it isn't busted like how it works in Super.

In Z the Vegeta among others says that we become stronger the more they fight meaning that RPL does act even in mid combat however the boost in power isn't astronomical nor is it exponential and you could go on without noticing it too but they do in fact get stronger during mid combat. The Zenkai boost (near death recovery) is another unique trait of the saiyans that just takes the whole getting stronger after every battle to another level with exponential power jumps that far surpass the mid combat jumps.

In Super the whole RPL is now overplayed, overuse and overpowered as during mid combat saiyans can make exceedingly exponential power jumps and most of the saiyans how shown this to be the case. Broly is just a special case that takes things even further than regular saiyans.


Now how this plays out for trunks RIGHT NOW

Well
The RPL will definitely be acting during the battle and making trunks stronger but it's not on any exponential scale and in fact the increase is barely even noticable and it would only Tip the scale for trunks ever so slightly

So it's a factor but one you could be ignore and it wouldn't make a difference to the outcome and how both characters go about achieving em
 
Ss3micah said:
Your both right and both wrong in some regards

Saiyans do have access to RPL even in Z but it isn't busted like how it works in Super.

In Z the Vegeta among others says that we become stronger the more they fight meaning that RPL does act even in mid combat however the boost in power isn't astronomical nor is it exponential and you could go on without noticing it too but they do in fact get stronger during mid combat. The Zenkai boost (near death recovery) is another unique trait of the saiyans that just takes the whole getting stronger after every battle to another level with exponential power jumps that far surpass the mid combat jumps.

In Super the whole RPL is now overplayed, overuse and overpowered as during mid combat saiyans can make exceedingly exponential power jumps and most of the saiyans how shown this to be the case. Broly is just a special case that takes things even further than regular saiyans.


Now how this plays out for trunks RIGHT NOW

Well
The RPL will definitely be acting during the battle and making trunks stronger but it's not on any exponential scale and in fact the increase is barely even noticable and it would only Tip the scale for trunks ever so slightly

So it's a factor but one you could be ignore and it wouldn't make a difference to the outcome and how both characters go about achieving em
Click to expand...
It should be notable enough to be a factor.
 
Well, I didn't mentioned it before, but Sonic's AP also isn't going to remain the same. His power passively grows during the battle, as shown when Sonic got from fighting on par with Infinite to overpowering him within few minutes, meaning that even if Trunks will passively get stronger (which is probably not going to happen fast, and/or will be negated by the stamina drain of Grade 1 SSJ), Sonic will get stronger too
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Well, I didn't mentioned it before, but Sonic's AP also isn't going to remain the same. His power passively grows during the battle, as shown when Sonic got from fighting on par with Infinite to overpowering him within few minutes, meaning that even if Trunks will passively get stronger (which is probably not going to happen fast, and/or will be negated by the stamina drain of Grade 1 SSJ), Sonic will get stronger too
Click to expand...
So they cancel out huh?
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Well, I didn't mentioned it before, but Sonic's AP also isn't going to remain the same. His power passively grows during the battle, as shown when Sonic got from fighting on par with Infinite to overpowering him within few minutes, meaning that even if Trunks will passively get stronger (which is probably not going to happen fast, and/or will be negated by the stamina drain of Grade 1 SSJ), Sonic will get stronger too
Click to expand...
That happened in Forces though and Forces comes after the Knights (if you believe in the whole chronological events stuff) so is it fair to give Sonic Access to stuff he'd have access to later on (things he didn't and shouldn't have Access to in knights game)
 
Ss3micah said:
That happened in Forces though and Forces comes after the Knights (if you believe in the whole chronological events stuff) so is it fair to give Sonic Access to stuff he'd have access to later on (things he didn't and shouldn't have Access to in knights game)
Click to expand...
This is an ability that Sonic naturally have, similar to how Saiyans got zenkais based on their biology. The fact that zenkais weren't introduced in OG Dragon Ball doesn't mean OG Dragon Ball Goku doesn't have this ability. Same goes for Sonic and his own form of passively getting stronger overtime, even if Sonic only acknowledged it in Forces
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
This is an ability that Sonic naturally have, similar to how Saiyans got zenkais based on their biology. The fact that zenkais weren't introduced in OG Dragon Ball doesn't mean OG Dragon Ball Goku doesn't have this ability. Same goes for Sonic and his own form of passively getting stronger overtime, even if Sonic only acknowledged it in Forces
Click to expand...
Argument Sustained

In that case we are back to square one

Either Sonic out lasts Trunks long enough for him to get exhausted and then go for the kill when opportunity presents itself

Or


Trunks spams Severe Damage/One shot AP ranged attacks, gets lucky and manages hit Sonic once with either ki barrage, AoE Shockwaves or AoE Ki Wave
 
Inconclusive compromise? All trunks needs is one attack which he has multiple ways of getting, sonic has a lot of skill, and agility superior to trunks' that could get him to outlast, if it wasn't for reactive power level I would've gone for trunks but since it's canceled out with sonic's then I'll go for inconclusive.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Inconclusive compromise? All trunks needs is one attack which he has multiple ways of getting, sonic has a lot of skill, and agility superior to trunks' that could get him to outlast, if it wasn't for reactive power level I would've gone for trunks but since it's canceled out with sonic's then I'll go for inconclusive.
Click to expand...
It's technically not inconclusive
Both Characters has wincons and clear ways of reaching them
The question becomes who could reach their wincon first

Neither choice is correct nor incorrect
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Well trunks has a few hours of attacking before he runs out of stamina so since the compromise was rejected, I'm voting trunks then.
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Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Trunks definitely cannot sustain Super Saiyan for hours. He barely lasted minutes against the Androids before his stamina drop was so severe he couldn't do anything
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Gilard is Right to some extent
If it were Mastered Super Saiyan (Grade 4) then that would be a valid argument
But given that at this point Trunks only had Regular Super Saiyan (Grade 1), lasting HOURS isn't something I see him doing either
 
I'm kinda leaning towards Trunks though

Realistically speaking Sonic isn't gonna 100% dodge every ounce of Ki barrage onslaughts every time regardless of how good is reactions, analytical prediction and danger senses are IN A SPEED EQUAL MATCH. These abilities are used to increase the chances of successful dodges not make the chances of dodging and avoiding attacks 100% at every given time
Add on the fact that even with said abilities sonic has bit hit numerous times by numerous characters relative/comparable to his speed and you get some leeway with Trunks being able to land a shot few times rather than none
Also add on the fact that EACH of Trunks Ki attacks have their own Explosive AoE that covers a significant range then it becomes more clear Trunks has a shot at hitting sonic at least one time (which is all he needs)
Sonic can't get close to Trunks either because if he does he'll face risk of a point blank AoE Shockwave/Ki Wave

However
Sonic HAS been shown to be SURPRISINGLY clever at times so how he'll use his abilities is any mans guess but he would most likely use em in a way to keep Trunks at bay long enough for Trunks to completely exhaust himself.

I'm only leaning to Trunks right now because the probability of Trunks landing a shot on Sonic isn't completely Zero and he'd likely get it off eventually (how long eventually would take though is what's stopping me from siding with Trunks definitively)
 
forgot about that. goku could last 5 minutes vs frieza fighting and he wasn't really effected by the drain. vegeta I remember can fight for a very long time vs the androids, and got his energy absorbed by 19 but was completely unaffected and kept fighting more. Also they're moving FTL so their fights are significantly longer and trunks has very high stamina with SSJ on the profile. So trunks is lasting very long vs sonic.
 
Ss3micah said:
Also add on the fact that EACH of Trunks Ki attacks have their own Explosive AoE that covers a significant range then it becomes more clear Trunks has a shot at hitting sonic at least one time (which is all he needs)
Click to expand...
I'll just say something towards this, Sonic can power null the Ki attacks by using the sword, and there is nothing stopping him from doing that.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
No he can't, he can shatter magic barriers, ki is not magic.
Click to expand...
Except that Excalibur's powers doesn't only extent from magical properties, and I have addressed this in another comment, Caliburn alone can already cancel out Lancelot's Chaos Blast by blocking with a forcefield (which btw isn't magic), the limit of Excalibur's power is not stated to be limited to magical sources both in-game and by the OG storybook.
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
Except that Excalibur's powers doesn't only extent from magical properties, and I have addressed this in another comment, Caliburn alone can already cancel out Lancelot's Chaos Blast by blocking with a forcefield (which btw isn't magic), the limit of Excalibur's power is not stated to be limited to magical sources both in-game and by the OG storybook.
Click to expand...
Scans? (Don't know shit about sonic and the seven rings)
Because Sonic's profile doesn't state what your saying at all, "Attack Reflection (Can reflect magical attacks), Power Nullification (Can shatter magic barriers with sword attacks"
 
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